Tonyfinch

Couldn't get a table at Embassy for tonight(Sat.) Got a table at Incognico no problem.

Coming down a gastronomic notch. I could only get a table at Lola's for 7pm tomorrow night (Friday). Nothing available for Saturday evening.

Don't wish to quibble Simon,but partition wasn't even relatively bloodless. Tens of thousands lost their lives. This process (the emergence of a "middle class" with disposable income) is taking place very slowly and is largely confined to the major cities.Sinced the forties there have been restaurants to cater for tourists and the wealthy (mainly confined to hotels) and others such as Moti Mahal as described by Suvir,which originally catered for local workers and the "lower middle classes". In the last 20 years or so there has been a lot of investment from abroad in India attracted by its relatively stable political system,an abundance of cheap labour and rich natural resources.At the same time their has been an expansion in the education system, an upsurge of tourism and an increase in awareness of alternative cultural systems through the media. Combined,these factors are leading to a slow emergence of a social sustem based on income rather than caste or religion.

In the highly developed Western European restaurant culture food is cooked at the "top end" that bears little or no relation to food that people actually cook at home.All right ,you could buy the El Bulli cookbook and cook recipes from it at home if you wish,but how many people actually do that. It will be interesting to see if India begins to develop a restaurant culture which attempts to drive the cuisine to new levels over the next few years,or whether it will content itself with providing an extension of home and/or street eating for those with larger disposable incomes.

Steer well clear of the Criterion Brasserie and Parisienne Chophouse. The former is a lovely room but the food is very ordinary. I've not eaten at the latter but everything one reads and hears points to "rip off". Christopher's in Covent Garden (there's a new branch in Victoria) and Orso would both be good choices. Joe Allen in Covent Garden has a menu and atmosphere to please a range of ages. Unless you're a hot shot you might have trouble getting into The Ivy. You might have more luck with the similarly eclectic Le Caprice. I don't know Pizza Metro or Buena Sera but there are loads of good Italians in London. The Time Out guide lists all the best ones.

Are they dinner?

If the sole consideration is food then for me it would have to be Hong Kong. Maybe I was lucky I was with friends who knew what they were doing but the 6 days I spent there were a total gastronomic revelation and opened my eyes to the truth,much denied on these boards, that Oriental cuisine at its best is easily as evolved and as sophisticated as French or other European cuisines.

Absolutely.While there are some fine restaurants in India there is no restaurant culture in the sense that the overwhelming majority of the population never eat in a restaurant.Indian cuisine therefore tends to develop slowly within families and communities and according to the prevalence of local and affordable ingredients. Marinades are not used to disguise poor quality meat but they are used as tenderisers for meats that are not specially bred for tenderness as they are in the West.This necessity has led to invention and the marinades themselves now represent the raison d etre of many meat dishes much as sauces do in the West. The great "haut cuisine" extravaganzas as described by Suvir has only the most remote connection to the culinary lives of the mass of the population.I have attended such events in Pakistan. There is a greater connection with the masses there because a lot more meat is eaten there and generally people are wealthier than in India (relatively) but these feasts are still displays of exclusivity and not in the least designed to demonstrate a "cutting edge" cuisine for the rest to follow. Having said that, some of the greatest food I've ever eaten has been in India and Pakistan,both in elite and "ordinary" homes and in one or two restaurants-(the Raan in Saloos in Lahore was one of the greatest lamb dishes ever).Much of the glory of Indian cuisine lays undiscovered in the West despite all the "Indian " restaurants in Britain, and recent attempts to produce Frenchified versions to please Michelin (viz;The Cinnamon Club) have resulted in watered down hybrid abominations.The great chefs are out there but its like French food 100 years ago-they're (nearly) all working for the "aristocracy". I'd like to think that the next step for Indian restaurant food is a return to rustic integrity but with a new twist and edge which reflects the boundary pushing which is still available only to the wealthy few on the sub-continent itself. The possibilities are endless but the notion of pleasing those who are only interested in the hegemony of French food must be forgotten.

Others will correct me if I'm wrong but although there's a lot of choice in the Mayfair area it's unlikely that you're going to find many places which combine 'fine dining' with pizza,pasta,burgers etc.? Is it important to you that you all eat together every night? If not,why not send the younger two off to ,say The Hard Rock Cafe,Pizza Express or Chez Gerard,while the rest of you explore some more 'upmarket' options. That way everyone has a good time. If that's out you'd be daft to be paying Mayfair prices on youngsters who are not enjoying it.You'd be better off venturing more into the West End where hundreds of places might fit the bill. Tell us what is excluded and what your price window is and and I'm sure we can come up with some reccs.

Personally I couldn't give a monkey's but by naming certain people whose comments you would welcome you could be said to be confirming the very arguments of those who worry about eGullet becoming "exclusionary" or whatever.

I've banged on about it before but since its been raised again......I am at a total loss as to why customers accept it when being told at which time they are going to be allowed to eat and at which time they must vacate their table. Eating in a restaurant when you know you're wanted out has got to be one of the most dismal restaurant going experiences. It depresses me that people are prepared to kowtow like obedient sheep to this practice. Why do people put up with it?

No. If it was I'd have said "buggerER".

Here we go again with the sneering.In todays ES magazine Nick Foulkes reports on the Brasserie Roux in St Jamse's. He writes: "it has to rely on corporate riff raff,the sort who wear short sleeved shirts with suits and ties and dream about driving a company Audi but will never progress beyond a Vauxhall. It was depressing.Had I been able to order a few shavings of Prozac on my food I would have done so. Food was calculated to be inoffensive to conference delegates". Who on earth do these snobbish little snot rags think they are? Slag a restaurant all you like but this need to slag ordinary people who may be trying to make an honest living strikes me as as a form of professional incompetence that goes far beyond any "crime" these people may have committed. Sack the bugger now. That's what I say!

The one I like the best of this breed,and I disagree with Simon on this one,is Cafe Spice Namaste in Prescott St. I've eaten there 4 or 5 times and although not every dish works,there's always been at least one dish with a wow factor. Here there seems a genuine attempt to move the cuisine on to new territory, rather than pretend its a different cuisine altogether as in The Cinnamon Club.

Despite Simon's criticisms I went to The Cinammon Club last night.And Simon can say I told you because he was right.This is an Indian restaurant trying to be a French restaurant and failing to be either.It's a very pleasant,comfortable space,but searching around for a word to descibe the food leads me to "tentative". This is spicy food for people who don't really like spicy food and want to pretend they're eating non-spicy food.The Frenchified presentation and the lack of assertiveness of flavour makes you wonder why you didn't go either to an Indian restaurant or a French restaurant.The place doesn't seem to have any convictions to lack the courage of. There's nothing wrong with serving Indian food in a sumptuous setting,but deepen and explore the cuisine rather than Frenchify it down.Do we really need pigs cheeks on an Indian restaurant menu?

I think he writes in the Hot Tickets supplement on Thursdays. I don't know about him being a lucky bastard. Would you feel lucky if you were once America's most successful talk show host reduced to writing about pubs for a living?

I know its an obvious one but to me the quirkiest thing that goes on in high end restaurants is the struggle for control of the wine bottle. I want the wine within reach either in a chill bucket or on the table and I want to pour it myself when I want to.Why this should be a problem for any restaurant is beyond me.I will without fail ask for the wine to be left with our table and many restaurants are happy to comply.However I have encountered hostility,resistance,uncertainty(one waitress said she'd have to go and ask the maitre'd "if it was all right"!) and,on one occasion,a refusal ("its our policy to serve the wine throughout the meal sir"). What is the problem? Is it JUST that they hope that by pouring it out we'll drink faster and order another bottle? Or is it a subtle form of intimidation in the unspoken power struggle between server and served?

It must be a sod that,Basildog. You know when people walk out with the tables.

I don't care if they're MY marks. It's other people's I'm not too crazy about.

Don't you Jewish New Yorkers take ANY notice of your analysts? The pepper mill is a phallic symbol which "comes" hot stuff when manipulated by a rugged testorone driven Italian male named Guissepe.Any rejection of the pepper mill and its emission will be seen as a rejection of Italian manhood and,ergo,a rejection of Italy entire. You could "just say no" but be prepared for macho facade to crumble and for Guissepe to curl up into foetal position and cry for Mama. Easier to lie back and think of America.

I like rooms that are dark and warm and cossetting,those that give you the closest approximation of going back to the womb or,to put it more prosaically,of being warm and relaxed under the duvet. I'm indifferent to lavish rooms with chandeliers and huge windows, I love the lush greens and rich warm browns of Le Gavroche,the twilight and midnight blues of Rhodes in the Square(a restaurant without windows) the dark burnished woods of The Connaught,the cosy clubbiness of Joe Allen,the red velvet banquettes of The Gay Hussar,the touristy but effective Edwardian richness of Rules A good room should have you blinking and slightly disorientated when you finally re-emerge into the 'real' world,a bit like coming out of the cinema.The room is a major part of the restaurant entertainment package that we buy into and it matters enormously.

Er,these days I definitely DON'T want to be sat facing a wall with a mirror on it. Steve,what exactly did the fact that the guy was drinking Jordan Cabernet Sauvignon tell you about him? They stock Jordan wines in my local off licence and I find them all absolutely delicious.

My wife and I were shown to a table next to a couple who had clearly been there for some time.She was in tears and he looked angry.One minute after we sat down she suddenly burst out with: "YOU SHAT ON MY MOTHER AND NOW YOU'RE SHITTING ON ME. AND IF I GIVE YOU THE CHANCE YOU'LL GRIND MY FACE INTO THE GROUND WITH YOUR HEEL!" As we were contemplating these...er.....interesting images,she stood up and walked out. Monsieur sat there for a full minute then turned ,looked straight at me and said "Fuck it!" He then also got up and disappeared. My wife and I couldn't decide whether we were sad or glad that they'd gone.

This is NOT true. People patently do NOT have a right to talk about "anything they like" in a public place. It is NOT OK to talk about how good it must have felt to lynch blacks in Alabama,or how right Hitler was to gas Jews, etc.etc.,no matter how "modulated" your tone. However in Jaybee's case you are missing the point. No-one is denying Jaybee's right to talk about what he was talking about.What is in question is the woman's right to ask him to keep his voice down because what he was talking about was upsetting her. It is NOT the same as objecting to his clothes or the food on his plate,as 99% of people would see that as unreasonable,whereas I believe that a lot of people would see objecting to joking about death as reasonable,especially if you've just had a loss. I say good on her. I also say that if Jaybee told her to go fly a kite then good on him. This is not about one person denying another "rights".It is about both people feeling able to express their views and make their point.If Jaybee refuses to comply then she can leave/ask to move table etc. as people have suggested,but to posit the idea that she doesn't have a right to voice her views in the first place is defensive and misguided.

No-one is "entitled" to the environment they want anymore than anyone else. People have a perfect right to TRY to change the environment to suit themselves. Whether they actually end up GETTING the environment they want will ultimately depend on whether the critical mass will accept the change. 20 years ago non-smoking areas in restaurants were unheard of.Even in Europe today the majority of restaurants don't have them, but they are slowly becoming more commonplace and will surely be widespread in another 20 years because less and less people are smoking and want a less smoky environment. I have a problem with cats and dogs in restaurants.I have complained in restaurants in France only to be answered with a Gallic shrug and a look that tells me where I can go if I want to. Fair enough. I have a right to complain and they have a right to tell me to get lost. I have made my point and if enough people feel the same the point will eventually be taken. I would posit that Death is a subject that woud offend a fair few people in American restaurants. If you're talking about it,especially in a jocular way as evidenced by Jaybee's opening post, I think you should be aware that some people may be upset by it. This emphatically does not mean you shouldn't talk about it,but to express surprise and irritation when someone IS upset and says so strikes me as wanting to have your environment cake and eat it too