therese

We're ahead of the curve when it comes to considering too much food "toxic" because we are ahead of the curve when it comes to wealth. Europeans, particularly southern Europeans (France, then Italy, then Spain) who've seen big leaps in recent decades are catching up in every way, including wide availability of crap processed food (which you won't see at the outdoor market, of course---check out Carrefour or Monoprix for the real story here). An illustrative story (which I may have told before, so excuse me if I have): When I first visited France as an exchange student, breakfast cereals were a specialty item. My host family had gone to some effort to find me a small box of Kellogg's Corn Flakes, which they presented to me at my first breakfast in their household (served with steaming hot milk, of course). I never finished the box, preferring their usual breakfast of bread and hot beverage. On a visit a few years ago to the home of my exchange partner, now a wealthy lawyer and mother of four, I found her overweight (and believe me, she truly never thought she'd be even remotely plump) and her children eating sweetened cereals, preferably chocolate-flavored. They live in the countryside and so drive everywhere, and can afford every possible permutation of electronic entertainment. At that time the children were all still slim, but as of last summer the 15 year old daughter (visiting me in the U.S.) was already heavier than ideal, and certainly heavier than the French norm of even a decade ago. We are not idiots for realizing that too much food is toxic. Thin French women may well clean their plates in restaurants and at large communal meals, but their total caloric intake over a period of days is clearly not high enough to result in weight gain given their activity levels. Because otherwise they'd be fat, see?

Have never in my life eaten Tater Tot casserole, nor anything else that uses Tater Tots as an ingredient, and still don't find them very appealing.

I think the thing that I don't like about Tater Tots (and don't find to be an issue with latke or other grated potato pancakes that just aren't called latke) is that it seems as if the shredded potato has been sprayed or bathed or whatever in oil before the shapes are formed. So the insides seem oily and slimy to me rather than fluffy and potato-y, no matter whether they've been baked or deep fried. This may or may not be the way they're made, but that's how they taste to me.

Okay, so maybe I've just never had a well-prepared Tater Tot. The outsides are okay so long as they've been crisped enough, but I find the insides somehow slimey and mealy all at once. If I've going for a fried potato product there are many others out there that I prefer.

Bloviatrix, the following is my recipe for boiled peanuts that I posted much earlier in this thread. I'm copying it here for you, bolding the salient points: The "Cook them until they are done" part of the recipe is the key: you won't know long this takes until you know how long it took to cook that particular batch. No need to agonize over it, it's not a souffle, and cooking them longer (so long as you don't cook them right down into a formless mush, which I've never ever managed to do, and I routinely leave mature peanuts in the slow cooker overnight on low) will not hurt them.

I grew up eating butter, real butter, made from soured ("clabbered") cream skimmed from milk obtained from Jerseys and Guernseys grazed on my grandparents' farm. This product is as different from the stuff that masquerades as butter in the rest of the U.S. as the latter is from Crisco, frankly. So if you can't get the real thing, you might as well just use whatever tasteless greasy ick happens to come in portion-controlled packets and not agonize over it. Or just do without entirely.

Thanks for the sketch---much easier to see the limitations. Suggestions for the short term: 1. Either remove the fold down table entirely and replace with a rolling breakfast bar/storage unit sort thing (some of these actually include storage for the stools themselves, and I've found these very handy). or 2. Cut the table way down, such that it extends no further than the far edge of the fridge. Only room for two, but believe me, you do not want to be using this hellish little kitchen with little kids around. When you do your real remodel you may want to consider a built-in arrangement, very period and very convenient with kids. 3. Get new unit for sink to include space for dishwasher. 4. Flip range as I initially described and install counter/cabinetry as appropriate along that wall.

Yes, I'm having trouble seeing just how the table works---where it starts and stops, basically. It would be helpful if you could post a floorplan, even a rough hand-drawn one. Given the size of the kitchen and the present layout, I'm not sure you'll be able to have both a table and a decent workspace, and I vote for the latter. When you do the remodel you'll be able to design things much more efficiently. Would there be a way to flip the fridge over the spot where the range is presently? It's sort of a dead end, so an ideal place for the fridge.

First obvious problem is lack of counter adjacent to range. I'd turn it 90 degrees and move it to the same wall as the fridge, filling in with counter in between.

Back from a work trip to Thessaloniki, where I ended up eating in a number of upmarket restaurants that I'd characterize as being purpose-built for tourists, except that they were all packed with Greeks. Greek tourists, perhaps. The first one was called Interni, located next door to the Makedonia Palace Hotel, right on the waterfront. The second was called Kitchen Bar, located in a rehabbed warehouse in the old port, so also right on the water. The third was the Roof Garden at the Hotel Electra, so not on the water but open air with great views of the water and the city. Food best at the Electra, worst at Kitchen Bar. All three actually enjoyable experiences in spite of the food. Sometimes dinner's not about the food.

Nice link, Jensen. A very nice explanation of caloric density, intuitive for most people, particularly if they cook, but apparently not for all. I hadn't seen the oatmeal pancake recipe, but who in their right mind would have thought that you could eat those and lose weight? I think there may be some component of the "magical weight loss" idea that Atkins promotes: eat huge amounts of very high calorie food and still lose weight. Which reportedly works on Atkins, though not for me.

Very little blood in sweetbreads, either pancreas or thymus, and the prep should take care of what's there. I like the traditional brown sauce version of sweetbreads, but if I were going to go lighter would probably go with something lemony, as a contrast against the richness. I'd go light on chicken stock lest it taste too much of chicken.

Wow. Unless your workplace WW is provided entirely gratis (we've got WW here at work, but I'd still have to pay, though it may be somewhat subsidized) I'd probably stop going. And if I were paying I'd ask for my money back. You could either switch to another group (but of course that wouldn't be as convenient), or switch to on-line only. Yet another option, and one that I might just do if I were in the same situation, is to just get right up in this leader's face and insist that she stop promoting the consumption of crap. You could even call WW and see what the story is, whether or not a leader is supposed to be able to support either plan. Lunch today: Pot roast with onions and mushrooms (core-friendly, but I'm still counting, so 2.5 points for 2 oz of beef) Pan-browned zucchini with fresh tomatoes (yeah, I had it yesterday, but I made enough for two days and it was quite nice) Vanilla-orange yogurt with blueberries (1/2 cup of each, for 1.5 points)

Heh heh. Yeah, I'm kidding about milling your own flour, but only sort of. Part of the Core approach deals with "convenience", and basically the more convenient something is the more likely it is to be over-consumed. So even if the fat-free yogurt that I flavor at home were nutritionally identical to the pre-made stuff from the store (though it's not, the store stuff has all sorts of miscellaneous extra stuff), they'd still be different insofar as WW is concerned. Since I actually prefer the yogurt that I flavor myself this approach is just fine with me. You can still have the pita bread, and you could decide whether you wanted to count it as core or not, I suppose. WW points out that some core foods should not be considered core foods for some people: somebody who really loves avocados, and would really like sitting down and eating three, for instance, should take avocados off her core list. And when they made chicken livers core they clearly didn't have me in mind. So you could think of that as precedent for moving a food the other direction, on to your core food list. The pita bread and the pasta are likely not nutritionally identical unless you're getting pita bread from a local maker---commercial bakeries generally have various preservative, etc. that I doubt make a bit of difference, but that WW may use as a rationale for discouraging their consumption.

No bread on Core, not even whole wheat. So you have to count it as part of your 35 points. Which is also where your wine goes, so unless you don't drink you're going to want to save points for alcohol. So you may well be switching to a turkey and quinoa salad for lunch. Oh, and there's some issue about deli meats as well, but somebody else will have to clarify this point, as I rarely use deli meats and don't attend meetings. Lunch for me today (I'm doing Flex because I still count points, but adhere to core rules): Pan-browned zucchini with fresh tomatoes Fat-free cottage cheese Almond-flavored yogurt with cherries (added frozen in the AM) Snacks today are plums and carrot sticks (boring, but I used up all my inspiration this AM making pot roast in the slow cooker for my family to have tonight because I'm going out to dinner with a friend---it's all core, so I can have leftovers tomorrow). So far I'm finding that to lose weight I'm having to go below my points target at least several days a week. Which means that many of my days are largely lacto-ovo vegetarian so that I can get sufficient dairy into the day. So I could end up being a bit short on the iron side of things, except that I'm never anemic (the opposite, in fact) and I take an iron-containing vitamin, so not really a concern. I've not found sticking to the diet very difficult, and I do feel quite well.

Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the actual yeast in question, the same yeast used for bread and beer. Other sorts of yeast could be grown and used as nutritional yeast, but they're not widely available from what I can tell. My husband used Saccharomyces cerevisiae in his research. And you know who sponsors receptions at scientific meetings in his area of study? Beer makers, that's who.

Okay, so clearly I need to lay my hands on some nutritional yeast. Lots of health food/organic options in my neighborhood, so sourcing shouldn't be an issue. It's so much fun trying stuff out on my family. Just lately they've gotten even more wary of just what Mom might be trying to pull. Sure, it looks like mashed potatoes, but what is it really? But they're game little eGulleteers, and so far neither of them's gone so far as to rush to the sink and try and scrape residual stuff off his/her tongue. Of course, I've not gotten them to try the Carb Control yogurt yet...

Sounds like you do buy the overhead argument as a reason for large portions if you're willing to pay 2/3 the big meal price for a meal that's only 1/2 as large. The most egregious example of waaaay too much food I've ever seen served in a restaurant was at an upmarket place in Knoxville called L'Orangerie. Food not bad, considering (this was about 10 years ago), but prices fairly high even by Atlanta standards at that time. But portion sizes were simply enormous, food very nearly lopping over the sides of plates. We were on vacation and had been drinking, and when the waiter brought the first course we just looked up at him and started laughing. He eventually explained that this was expected here, that any less food earned complaints from the well-heeled but older crowd that generally ate there (I was the youngest customer there that night by far). Tapas and other "small plate" restaurants are often presented as being more like bars than like restaurants, and the attendant vibe/noise is not necessarily what every diner has in mind.

Abra, tell me more about the nutritional yeast, as I've never used it. Where would I find it in the store (refrigerated?), how much to use, any particular brands to look for, etc.

Hey, remember that drive-by recommendation that I'd picked up on WW for combining plain yogurt with sugar-free jello? Well, I know you're going to have trouble believing this, but there's actually something worse out there: Dannon Carb Control yogurt. I noticed this type while using the WW points tracker data base: when I went looking for various sorts of flavored yogurts (which I had a lot of in the fridge and want to use up before trying Core when I get back from Greece) I found that the Carb Control version was only 1 point! So I picked some up at my local Publix this weekend. So, yes, it's actually worse than the sugar-free jello/plain yogurt mix that you make at home. The texture reminds me of paste. So does the flavor, come to think of it. The serving size is smaller than usual (accounting for much of the "carb control" aspect of it, apparently), but in this instance that's a good thing, a very good thing. [edit to point out that Jujubee and I were posting simultaneously]

Cauliflower gives a reliably creamy texture, and as it's white (and no points) you can add other things to give it whatever primary color you were going for: tomato (red), carrot (orange), basil/tarragon/dill (green). Cauliflower gives nice body to cucumber soup. Carrots, parsnips, and jerusalem artichokes also work well as a base. I don't have an immersion blender, so just use my regular stand blender. Not quite as convenient, but not really a thrash either. I usually use Total non-fat yogurt instead of non-fat sour cream, as the non-fat sour cream tastes vaguely sweet to me (and my family also dislikes it).

About the only sort of okra that I like is pickled---small pods, pickled whole. I'll eat other preps in a restaurant if they accompany something else, but never make it at home.

Dana, the corn chowder sounds great. Did you actually calculate the points value for the dish? With fall just around the corner I think I'll be trying some pureed vegetable-based soups myself. Entertaining 200 at a time isn't really all that big a deal once you realize that you will be using a caterer. Not necessarily for the food (though the one I use makes things that I'm willing to serve to my friends) but for the extra hands: they serve, tidy, replenish buffets, serve drinks (I have a separate bar area set up), re-stock the powder rooms, etc. If you do all the food yourself you can just hire servers, but ideally they should be experienced at handling this sort of party unassisted, not just college kids that you have to direct. One of the funnier moments last year was when the head server asked me how to turn on the oven and I didn't know. I did at least think to check the interior before turning it on.

Apparently so. For whatever reason I'd not picked up on the other name (somebody else made the reservation) and I didn't notice signage that mentioned the other name (but then I was a bit late and a rushing).

I often order smaller portions in restaurants, either getting an appetizer as my main course, or simply asking if a dish can be served as a half portion (particularly if it's pasta, as this is routinely done in any case). Restaurants in the U.S. often serve too much food as a means of offsetting high overhead---the customer thinks he's getting better value for his money if he gets a lot of extra food. So pricing of half portions would not be half of the present prices, but half of the food cost plus all the usual overhead, which is more or less fixed per diner (assuming a steady number of diners). The only place I've ever eaten in North America that routinely offered half portions was a resort in Ontario. A remote location, so it was full board, and you could order half portions, full portions, or even extra if you were inclined. Very different economics, of course, as the customer had already paid all the overhead up front, and serving more food than a client would eat was simply wasteful. And the remote location of the resort probably meant the waste disposal was actually relatively expensive.