Authentic vindaloo

[g.johnson]

Last night at The Brick Lane Curry House in NYC, I had a vindaloo which was excellent but didn’t contain potatoes. I asked the owner about this and he said that the inclusion of potatoes is inauthentic and due to a mistaken etymology, vind – aloo, the last part meaning potato. According to him the correct etymology is vin – daloo, the first part meaning vinegar and the second pork.

Comments?

[Suvir Saran]

How interesting...

I heard that the name vindaloo comes from the combination of vin (vinegar) and aloo from alho (portuguese for garlic).

[Suvir Saran]

Last night at The Brick Lane Curry House in NYC, I had a vindaloo which was excellent but didn’t contain potatoes. I asked the owner about this and he said that the inclusion of potatoes is inauthentic and due to a mistaken etymology

Potatoes are used commonly in Goan Vindaloo recipes. They are used in the versions cooked even by the most celebrated hosts of Goa. And have made it into recipes in books written by several Indian food authorities.

Certainly the misconception that the word aloo was a reference to the similar word in Hindi meaning potato must be one reason for this. But there is a more important reason in my book; potatoes are often added to many meat and chicken curries to simply add to the quantity of the dish. So that it stretches. Nothing more and nothing less.

Potatoes added to curries such as these made it possible for those in a home that did not like meat too much, but had no restriction to it, to find an alternative without the chef having to prepare another dish.

I am sure other members would have their own feedback about this; it would make for a great discussion.

[Suvir Saran]

Pork Vindaloo

This was given to me by a Parsi friend. This family has spent many years in Goa. It is a delicious version of the simple curry from Goa that has enough life in it to be eaten just by itself and still make quite an impact on any diner.

Make this with tomatoes that are so ripe they are too soft for salads. You could make this with cubed, boneless pork loin, but I like to use the bone because it adds flavor to the dish; the pieces of pork will be a bit oddly shaped.

SPICE PASTE:

1 teaspoon cumin seeds

1 teaspoon coriander seeds

10 dry red chilies

1/2 inch cinnamon

8 cloves

6 green cardamom pods

10 black peppercorns

1/2 teaspoon turmeric

6 garlic cloves

2 inches fresh ginger, peeled

2 tablespoons white vinegar

Juice of 1/2 lemon

1/4 teaspoon salt

4 center cut pork chops, about 1 inch thick (2 1/2 pounds), each cut in 3, bone included, and trimmed of fat

2 ripe tomatoes, quartered

2 medium onions, quartered

3 tablespoons canola oil

1 teaspoon salt, or to taste

1. For the spice paste, combine the cumin, coriander, red chilies, cinnamon, cloves, cardamom, peppercorns and turmeric in a spice grinder and grind to a coarse powder. Add the garlic, ginger, vinegar and lemon juice and process to a paste. Put the pork, the spice mixture and the salt in a ceramic or glass bowl (the paste will stain plastic) and stir with a spatula to coat the meat with the paste. Cover and let marinate in the refrigerator at least 2 hours or up to 4 hours.

2. Meanwhile, combine the tomato and onion in a food processor and puree; set aside.

3. Heat the oil in a large, heavy-bottomed casserole over medium-high heat. Add the chops and cook, stirring often, for 10 minutes. Add the tomato puree and the salt and stir well. Bring to a boil. Add the 1/4 to 1/2 cup water as needed to cover the chops. Return to a boil, turn the heat down and simmer, cover, until tender, about 40 minutes. Taste for salt and serve hot with rice.

[anil]

I think the person in BLCH was mistaken. Many a goan would attest to using potatoes.

[Anna N]

Pork Vindaloo

This was given to me by a Parsi friend. This family has spent many years in Goa. It is a delicious version of the simple curry from Goa that has enough life in it to be eaten just by itself and still make quite an impact on any diner.

Well this recipe certainly made an impact on me! I am so much a DUMMY that I am completely unfamiliar with the names of Indian dishes. Who knew that Vindaloo would be so hot! OK, so I read "10 chilis" and what little of my brain still operates, flashed a warning sign. I chose to ignore it. I should have paid attention.

Even for one who thinks they like "hot and spicy" this was over the top.

This is not to criticize the recipe - far from it - but to show how much I still have to learn about Indian food!

Having made both Butter Chicken and Tandoori Cornish Game Hens, I found I had come a long way in terms of understanding how to toast spices and I thoroughly enjoyed the whole process of assembling and cooking the dish. Seems to me that trying Indian recipes will teach me a whole lot about cooking in general.

Like stir-frying, it requires much attention to "mise en place" and to thoroughly reading and trying to understand the recipe before starting.

I find Indian cooking slows me down in a good way - makes me pause and reflect and not just toss in this and that.

So, though the final dish was too, too hot for me, the learning experience was well worth the effort.

Which reminds me of why I enjoy certain cookbooks over others: They give me a brief description of the finished dish in terms of taste and texture so I can make a better judgement as to whether I am likely to enjoy the dish.

As an aside, my leftover Butter Chicken which I saved so virtuously for my lunch, was "stolen" by my daughter who raved on about it for ages and cleaned the dish so thoroughly it barely needed washing! I had to make do with her leftover roast beef! Who knew she liked Indian food!

But once again, thanks are due to Suvir as he works so hard to educate dummies like me.

Today, I will try my hand at Chapatis - had to make do with mini wholewheat pitas to accompany my suicidal Pork Vindaloo.

[Suvir Saran]

As an aside, my leftover Butter Chicken which I saved so virtuously for my lunch, was "stolen" by my daughter who raved on about it for ages and cleaned the dish so thoroughly it barely needed washing!  I had to make do with her leftover roast beef!  Who knew she liked Indian food!

Today, I will try my hand at Chapatis - had to make do with mini wholewheat pitas to accompany my suicidal Pork Vindaloo.

It is great to hear that your daughter approved of your cooking. What better compliment (affirmation) could one want. Children are the harshest critics one can have. And that also makes the the most honest. That is what mom and grandma always said.

All the best with the chapatis. They are all about practice and patience and some attention in the begining. Once you get the flow, it will be second nature. Use more flour the first few times, as you get a knack for rolling them. Later on, use very little, for the lesser of flour you use, the less burnt flour you will have sticking to them.

Just as an aside, hot curries are great with rice if you want to dull some of that heat. Also a little plain yogurt on the side would help.

[Wilfrid]

Vindaloo: I was reading a fairly tedious Time Out New York article on spicy food last night, and it cited a vindaloo made with lamb. That struck me as wrong, and I think this thread confirms my assumption that it should be made with pork.

For what it's worth, the article indicated that the Brick Lane version of phaal was the hottest dish sampled. As so often with Time Out, however, the author seemed proud of his gastronomic naivete - so who knows?

[Suvir Saran]

Vindaloo:  I was reading a fairly tedious Time Out New York article on spicy food last night, and it cited a vindaloo made with lamb.  That struck me as wrong, and I think this thread confirms my assumption that it should be made with pork.

Wilfrid,

Your gut was right. But even in India, different vindaloos are being made today.

In my cookbook I have done it with pork.

[Anna N]

All the best with the chapatis. They are all about practice and patience and some attention in the begining. Once you get the flow, it will be second nature. Use more flour the first few times, as you get a knack for rolling them. Later on, use very little, for the lesser of flour you use, the less burnt flour you will have sticking to them.

Well here's my report on the Chapatis - I hope others who are interested in learning some Indian dishes find my reports of value - I don't want to bore anyone.

Having failed miserably to make a decent loaf of white bread in all my years, I approached Chapatis with an expectation that the first few attempts would be utter failures. Imagine my surprise (and forgive my wide-eyed wonder - I've never in my life made a flat bread) when these turned out to be not only edible but puffed and rather gorgeous looking!

I followed Suvir's advice and used 50% all-purpose and 50% whole-wheat since I don't yet have access to the Indian flour. I made just one slight change - I sifted together the flours and salt and tossed the bran that remained in the sieve - I expect that's a no-no from a health and fibre point-of-view.

I actually timed my kneading so that I did not think I had kneaded for 15 minutes when I'd really only done it for 5 or 10 - 15 minutes is an amazingly long time to knead dough. Only being able to knead with left hand (a gash on my right thumb aquired on the weekend!) was tiring but I relaxed into it and the 15 minutes went relatively quickly.

The dough rolled out superbly but it took many tries to get anything resembling a circle - my first few were definitely not very pretty! I used an ordinary ball-bearing rolling pin and a wooden board. I did not need to use a great amount of flour.

I heated a very heavy (anodized aluminum I think) pan on the stove to about medium high and watched as the dough turned opaque and then quickly turned each Chapati and cooked it very briefly on the other side.

I then picked up the dough, held it in some long tongs above a full heat electric burner. I was astounded to see it puff out like a balloon. Sorry to sound naive but I've never seen this before and I was duly thrilled.

I wish I had a digital camera to show the results and get a critique on this first attempt.

But, as always, I have questions:

Can they be prepared ahead so that they just need the brief time over the final high heat? If so, how would you store them?

If they can't be prepared this far ahead, can they be rolled out and stacked ready for the preliminary cooking? How far ahead of time could you do this?

I'm thinking how good they are hot and how one could cook enough for four people and still have them at their peak of perfection.

I urge anyone who doubts that they can make these, to give it a try - it really is not difficult.

Again, thanks for recipe and advice, Suvir.

[Suvir Saran]

WOW! You are amazing! I am glad the chapatis came out baloon like. Many people cannot seem to do it right. They are the easiest things to make... and the nicest thing to eat with most any food. Something about chapatis is magical. And I would be happiest eating them with every meal. But made fresh. Coming to the plate hot from the stove. They are amazing. What a shame restaurants do not want to go through the effort of making them.

I am working with a restaurant in NYC. And I once saw the owner eating chapatis for his own lunch. When I asked him why he could not think of adding them to the menu, he said it was "tedious and Americans would not appreciate it". I laughed and asked if he had given "These Americans" a chance. He said no. As we work on a revised menu, chapatis are going to be on it.. just a little more expensive. Since they take more effort to make.

I love feedings groups of friends chapatis when I have small dinners for upto 10 people. Chapatis are a treat. And yet to most Indians, they are nothing special. We grew up eating these with every meal.

I am impressed with your abilities in the kitchen. And anyone who can make chapatis, gets great points from me.

And trust me when I tell you that you have now learned how to make the most difficult flat bread there is. The rest of them are much easier. Maybe only more involved. This is the basic but what most people fear most. Again, congratulations. Duly impressed here.

[Anna N]

I love feedings groups of friends chapatis when I have small dinners for upto 10 people. Chapatis are a treat.

So how do you manage to serve them hot? Do you roll them out and stack them and then "fry" them a few at a time? Do they need to be covered by a damp cloth? In other words, can they be held, uncooked, for any period of time?

I was doing mine one at a time - rolling, "frying" and "puffing".

Thanks, Survir.

[rstarobi]

nolongerlurking,

To add to Suvir's comment on the Vindaloo earlier in the thread - in addition to starches, such as rice, coriander leaves (cilantro leaves) are good at cutting the burn of spicy foods.

[Suvir Saran]

nolongerlurking,

To add to Suvir's comment on the Vindaloo earlier in the thread - in addition to starches, such as rice, coriander leaves (cilantro leaves) are good at cutting the burn of spicy foods.

Is that so? I never thought of that, myself, but it seems to be correct. They have enough liquid in them that I can see it work. WOW... learnt something new and clever today.

[Suvir Saran]

I love feedings groups of friends chapatis when I have small dinners for upto 10 people. Chapatis are a treat.

So how do you manage to serve them hot? Do you roll them out and stack them and then "fry" them a few at a time? Do they need to be covered by a damp cloth? In other words, can they be held, uncooked, for any period of time?

I was doing mine one at a time - rolling, "frying" and "puffing".

Thanks, Survir.

I make some in advance. Wrap them in a large cloth napkin. Rub a little butter on one side of each of them.

I then invite the guests to sit and eat. They each get one, I have a couple left over in the napkin, and as they eat their first ones, I keep making more. By the time they have finished their first ones, I have made a few more.. and this way, they always have chapatis. And I give them relatively warm ones through dinner.

There is no really good way of keeping chapatis for a very long time.

I know some people have found success in rolling them and cooking them to that first stage of opaqueness that you get, and then stacking them. And then they cooked them for the next stages. I have never found that much easier than making completely fresh ones.

But often, I will make Pooris. Deep fried flat breads.. and these can be made in advance and then simply frieds as you serve your meal.

I can email you a recipe if you want.

[Monica Bhide]

I do the same. One way I reheat chappatis (once cooked) is to wrap them in a paper napkin, spirnkle some water on them and then heat in the microwave. They stay pretty soft. It is hard to keep them fresh for a long time though. I am so impressed that your chappatis worked out, my husbad swears that I stillcannot roll a round chappati.. they look like maps of the world!!

[Suvir Saran]

I do the same. One way I reheat chappatis (once cooked) is to wrap them in a paper napkin, spirnkle some water on them and then heat in the microwave. They stay pretty soft. It is hard to keep them fresh for a long time though. I am so impressed that your chappatis worked out, my husbad swears that I stillcannot roll a round chappati.. they look like maps of the world!!

10 minutes of patience and practice. Maybe 20 at the most. But so many people, give up after the first 3 that do not come out round.

It is actually very easy to roll them out perfectly each time.

Maybe someday, when Steve Klc does his pastry video, I will do a video on chapati making. I was 6 when I made my first round chapati.

[Monica Bhide]

I do the same. One way I reheat chappatis (once cooked) is to wrap them in a paper napkin, spirnkle some water on them and then heat in the microwave. They stay pretty soft. It is hard to keep them fresh for a long time though. I am so impressed that your chappatis worked out, my husbad swears that I stillcannot roll a round chappati.. they look like maps of the world!!

10 minutes of patience and practice. Maybe 20 at the most. But so many people, give up after the first 3 that do not come out round.

It is actually very easy to roll them out perfectly each time.

Maybe someday, when Steve Klc does his pastry video, I will do a video on chapati making. I was 6 when I made my first round chapati.

I use the BOWL METHOD. Have you ever heard of it/ Roll out your chappati, and if you do not get it round, place a round bowl onit upside down, remove the edges and VOILA.. it is as round as you need it to be!! I am getting better at it though

[Suvir Saran]

Never heard of it.. but I guess it makes sense. One could use a ring to cut it as well. Smart thinking.

But really, the key in rolling good chapatis is not really a perfect round as much as a perfect rolling of the dough. If there are wrinkles in the roll, even those that could have been pressed flat, they will keep the chapati from fluffing up.

So a good rolling would mean smooth and continuous rolling and in one motion.. so as to make sure there are no kinks. It is when you keep paying more attention to the shape instead of the fluidity of your action, that you set yourself up for failure.

[Monica Bhide]

Never heard of it.. but I guess it makes sense.  One could use a ring to cut it as well.  Smart thinking.

But really, the key in rolling good chapatis is not really a perfect round as much as a perfect rolling of the dough. If there are wrinkles in the roll, even those that could have been pressed flat, they will keep the chapati from fluffing up.

So a good rolling would mean smooth and continuous rolling and in one motion.. so as to make sure there are no kinks. It is when you keep paying more attention to the shape instead of the fluidity of your action, that you set yourself up for failure.

BOWL METHOD.. invented by Monica Bhide out of sheer desparation!! I loved your tips on the making of chappatis. I agree with your comments, I need to get over my obsession with the roundness of things.. Just kidding

[rstarobi]

Is that so? I never thought of that, myself, but it seems to be correct. They have enough liquid in them that I can see it work. WOW... learnt something new and clever today.  

I'm not sure exactly what the scientific reasoning is behind this, but I found it out at Nobu - there's a sashimi dish there that's served with a jalapeno slice and a coriander leaf - you feel the first instant of burn, and then it's almost immediately cut off by the coriander, creating a really interesting sensation.

[BBhasin]

nolongerlurking,

To add to Suvir's comment on the Vindaloo earlier in the thread - in addition to starches, such as rice, coriander leaves (cilantro leaves) are good at cutting the burn of spicy foods.

Is that so? I never thought of that, myself, but it seems to be correct. They have enough liquid in them that I can see it work. WOW... learnt something new and clever today.

Cutting the burn of spicy foods......

This is how someone explained it to me .... think of the hot stuff as 'cling-ons', they attach themseves to the taste buds on your tounge and start sqeezing, hence the pain. starches, like breads, water etc. dont work. What does is milk and milk products like yogurt and yes, chocolate.

I bought this explaination, as while posted in South India ( where they tradionally eat pretty hot stuff) I observed that the meal was usually finished with a mixture of boiled rice and yogurt.

[jackal10]

I thought that was because the hot chemicals were fat-soluble. If you need to reduce the burn eat or drink something with fat. Water will just spread them further round the mouth. Things containing fat (raita, lassi, ghee) will dilute them. The bread or rice is just a carrier for the fat, such as ghee.

[BBhasin]

Back to the Vindaloo bussiness

It is my understanding that an authentic vindaloo uses pork in small cubes with the fat and rind.

You can get this cut at the oriental ( not Indian ) stores.

Also that the vindaloo is tradtionally made a day prior to allow the seasonings to permeate.

Now the following is something that I am not sure of, so can someone in the know please give their thoughts on this one.

I was told by a Goanese lady of Portugese decent ,that in her grandparents time the pig would be killed in the backyard and the blood saved to be used in the vindaloo like a laison.

I am very curious if someone can authenticate this

[BBhasin]

I thought that was because the hot chemicals were fat-soluble. If you need to reduce the burn eat or drink something with fat. Water will just spread them further round the mouth. Things containing fat (raita, lassi, ghee) will dilute them. The bread or rice is just a carrier for the fat, such as ghee.

you may be right jackal10. Even the chocolate has lots of fat. I hadn't thought of Ghee. I am going to try a spoonful of hot sauce followed by another of ghee shall report back if I survive.