eG Q&A with Paul Liebrandt

[docsconz]

We have had some excellent questions so far, but I will take this opportunity to remind everyone that in addition to questions for Paul, thoughtful opinions on the issues raised are also welcome. For example, Jordan, any insights that you may have on New York vs. Chicago vs San Sebastian or Barcelona and their respective receptiveness to creative cuisines, are more than welcome.

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personally, i think that chicago is not what everyone thinks it is in regards to food. grant is doing extremely well for many reasons, a big one being that he's marketed very well. articles written about him offer a sort of a provocative/mystical approach, leaving a lot to the imagination. naturally, people are drawn to it. homaru is the same, however i don't think moto is as successful of a restaurant as many new yorkers think. quite simply, new york is the most culturally diverse city in the country, and certainly one of the most in the world... chicago? mmm... not so much. i think that we have an advantage in new york, as we have sort of a "it happened here first" perspective. so for those that think that alinea, or moto, or el bulli wouldn't work in new york, i strongly disagree. however with like anything else, all elements have to be factored in ie: clientel, price point, location, etc. as far as spain is concerned, spaniards are extremely nationalistic. and since the big modern "boom," food movement in spain, i think that they are encouraging all of there chefs. we are decidedly more cynical in this country.. myself included. you know, like when a chef in charleston starts using sodium alginate, you raise your brow to it and think, "why?" but in spain, they think, "what? another modern restaurant? hurray? anything that keeps people saying that we're superior to france now in gastronomy" (i was sort of joking a little bit). i mean, ferran adria is like emeril lagasse over there. and how many americans know who he is? not many, really.

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Thanks for these very interesting observations, Jordan. I agree that restaurants like Alinea, Moto and Avenues would be as successful in New York as Chicago as would Schwa. Both Avenues and Schwa are intersting cases though. Avenues in some respects is in a very similar situation as Gilt was (is?) as it is an elegant Hotel restaurant with a very talented chef with highly creative tendencies. Avenues, though very creative is still much more conservative in approach compared to Graham Eliot Bowle's Chicago peers in Grant Achatz and Homaru Cantu with whom he is often lumped, yet that restaurant in a swanky "midtown" hotel seems to thrive. I have to think that one reason it appears to thrive while Gilt appeared to hit a marketing lag is because the concept of extreme culinary creativity has become accepted in Chicago where it is not yet totally embraced in New York. Schwa, if it was in NYC in a similar location, would likely be located in a borough like Brooklyn rather than Manhatten. While Brooklyn has by all reports some truly outstanding restaurants, I believe that they don't get quite the same notoriety that similar quality manhatten restaurants do. I don't think that sort of division is as apparent or as much of a factor in Chicago.

[veda]

however you have to consider what was the typical diner like at gilt?  wealthy upper east siders.  of course there not going to like paul's vantage, they want food like that of aureole.  so i just think that paul got a bad rap there, because he was cooking for the wrong clientel.  i mean come on, it's the new york palace hotel, and the food was at new york palace hotel prices.  as soon as paul gets his own venture, and does it his way, in his style, in a not-so-upper-east-side-location, he's going to fly.  and he and i have discussed his plans, and i think he's going to try to open a place that's more approachable, slightly more casual, but still serious, and a bit more cost conscious for diners.  i for one am very excited to see what transpires.

j.

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When I said something like this, Fat Guy (at least I think it was Fat Guy) responded by asking, "Then what about Papillon?" So I guess now I'll add the question, "Then what about Papillon?"

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papillon as far as i know, was an existing restaurant, and paul took it over. i think from the beginning, the restaurant was not designed for the ambitious food that paul was exploring. naturally the whole scene was not very cohesive, and i think that that greatly contributed to it's downfall.

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papillon was a great little restaurant,the restaurant didnot close, I moved on to persue other oppertunities,the owners decided to change the concept after I left thats it.

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thanks for clearing that up paul. see, it's all silly rumors in this city. you always need to go to the source. sorry about the misinfo.

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thanks J call you next week

[veda]

Hi, chef. I had the pleasure of dining at Gilt back in mid January. I remember that I thought that it was a restaurant which would very likely succeed --there go my prediction abilities--: contemporary cooking but well measured risks in the main courses, a wink here and there to more avant-garde proposals in the first part of the meal, a controllable size of the dining room, good service. Yes, the wine list was way too expensive, but that's not a surprise --unfortunately-- in NYC. How was the restaurant doing in terms of patrons? I saw a good number of seats taken on a rainy Tuesday night. Or was it a problem with the ownership?

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please read what I said about vision and concept

[Lateralus]

Chef, when you are in Philly do visist DELILA'S?

[twodogs]

Paul,

What are your inspirations? Where do ideas come from? What leaps out in the world which allows you to join a multitude of apparently dissimilar ingredients? And if they really are dissimilar how do they inherrently work so well together?

Alex

[veda]

Can you explaine more in detail about the location you're searching for in NYC.  You metion below 23rd street.  With your to previous expeiences..Atlas...Gilt they were located in midtown...is your dicision going to based on price point concept being that it will not be so fine dining, and not in an area on NYC that is know for being fine dining(midtown).

manybe more easily said...will the concept reflect the location pre se?

sorry about spelling it early here Chicago!!

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lateralus-your spelling is terrible!!!!!!!

I am looking downtown simply because it makes more sense for the project that I am planning,it is not going to be as overly priced as some of my other restaurants,the menu and ambiance will of course reflect me and mystyle of cooking but in a much more apporoachable way ,I would like to say that I really do not feel feel that my cooking is "avant garde" my menu derives from a firm foundation of classic french technique, flavour first.

[Nathan]

just as a sidenote on the question of Chicago v. NY....

I see this misconception a lot.

WD-50 is considerably more avant-garde in terms of food than Alinea (tableware is another matter)....Alinea strikes me as being quite similar in concept to Gilt.

which lead to this question for Chef Liebrandt:

Do you think that when you open a new restaurant that you will adopt a more traditional menu format, say a tasting menu?

I think one problem with Gilt was that the menu would indicate a prix fixe (at a rather expensive price for a prix fixe) when in fact one received a tasting menu for all practical purposes.

In retrospect do you think that you might be better off indicating to a diner on the menu that they actually will receive numerous courses?

[veda]

Paul,

What are your inspirations?  Where do ideas come from?  What leaps out in the world which allows you to join a multitude of apparently dissimilar ingredients?  And if they really are dissimilar how do they inherrently work so well together?

Alex

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I take inspiration from other cuisines, chefs, classic dishes, my food is not new by any means I just like to give it my little touch

most of the creation that comes - as my boys in the kitchen will tell you,by trial and error, we have an idea and as a group we pull on our shared experience-i normally work lke this,but every chef is differnet

[veda]

Chef, when you are in Philly do visist DELILA'S?

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??????????????

[Lateralus]

I'll take that as a yes!!!

[Vadouvan]

Paul, some questions for you and observations about Gilt.

My initial meal at Gilt was quite good, probably the best among 3.

I ended up recommending the restaurant to quite a few of my clients of whom cost was a non issue.

Removing $$$ from the equation, the main achilles heel of the restaurant as reported to me was that most felt the serving style was too tiresome. These were quite food savvy people who have dined all over the world so it wasnt so much perception as being overwhelmed with what in thier opinions were too many flavors in rapid succession.....such as dishes like the "flavors of winter".

The first question is how do you balance the complexity of the communication of "deliciousness" combined with creativity ?

Where do you draw the line when it's too much in the sense of titration ?

Do you define words like "delicious" and "sublime" as your perception of the dish as it leaves the kitchen or how important is it that the diner agrees ?

Certainly once you have communicated your vision on the plate, the diner could be a complete philistine who doesnt get it, how important is it to win them over...?

A lot of questions of Philosophy and vision have been asked, do you think food should make an attempt to communicate an intellectual point or should it simply rely on baseline "deliciousness".

Also, you came from the MPW/Gagnaire old school in which there was no Methocel, Activa, Gellan Gum, Pacojets and other fancy gadgets, though you are clearly a visionary who continues to push on, how important is it to you to counsel young cooks to be solid in the basics before trying to be a Paul Liebrandt or a Wylie dufrese ?

[NaFairge]

i think that paul's food can be very forward and "unusual" for some people. i remember the oxtail gelee dish or the foie in beet glaze with quince and nori croquant.

however i also remember the poulard with butternut and truffle and albufera or the ribeye with cocotte of winter veg.........

it's not all crazy and there was always balance overall.

[docsconz]

Hi, chef. I had the pleasure of dining at Gilt back in mid January. I remember that I thought that it was a restaurant which would very likely succeed --there go my prediction abilities--: contemporary cooking but well measured risks in the main courses, a wink here and there to more avant-garde proposals in the first part of the meal, a controllable size of the dining room, good service. Yes, the wine list was way too expensive, but that's not a surprise --unfortunately-- in NYC. How was the restaurant doing in terms of patrons? I saw a good number of seats taken on a rainy Tuesday night. Or was it a problem with the ownership?

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please read what I said about vision and concept

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Given the dizzying back and forth here at present I will respond to say that I believe Paul is referencing this post.

[tan319]

Good Morning, Chef...

For your new restaurant, do you think you'll be in a more downtown location?

Also, in my own restaurant travel, I feel like I don't see enough younger people ( 21-30) dining.

When I lived in New York City that wasn't as much of a case.

Do you think there's a way to present your cuisine in the ne plus ultra  degustation way + also offer a menu more geared for the less moneyed gastronome?

Thanks again for being here.

edited to add: BB around 11:30

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I am at present looking for a downtown location,below 23rd.the idea being I do not want to do a super exspensive restaurant,I feel that somthing which is affordable is much more in tune with todays market.

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There's some excellent locations around that area.

[veda]

just as a sidenote on the question of Chicago v. NY....

I see this misconception a lot.

WD-50 is considerably more avant-garde in terms of food than Alinea (tableware is another matter)....Alinea strikes me as being quite similar in concept to Gilt.

which lead to this question for Chef Liebrandt:

Do you think that when you open a new restaurant that you will adopt a more traditional menu format, say a tasting menu?

I think one problem with Gilt was that the menu would indicate a prix fixe (at a rather expensive price for a prix fixe) when in fact one received a tasting menu for all practical purposes.

In retrospect do you think that you might be better off indicating to a diner on the menu that they actually will receive numerous courses?

←

well the format at gilt was not really a tasting menu,we gave multiple amuse buche,and a pre dessert,and lots of side dishes.

firstly the gesture of all these extras is one of being generous and giving the client somthing more than they were expecting,it is an honest gesture of generousity

the next project will be different to that of gilt,more in line of a perry street style of operation

[veda]

i think that paul's food can be very forward and "unusual" for some people. i remember the oxtail gelee dish or the foie in beet glaze with quince and nori croquant.

however i also remember the poulard with butternut and truffle and albufera or the ribeye with cocotte of winter veg.........

it's not all crazy and there was always balance overall.

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this is something that seems to be overlooked,the menu at gilt was split in two,classic and modern,the classic were my interpretaions of classical dishes,grilled dover sole,roasted ribeye of beef, these - to answer -"vadouvan" question were the simple balance in the menu- the service however was not under my control.

Edited October 27, 2006 by veda (log)

[tan319]

This is sort of a repost, leaving out some art as food and GILT question's I feel you've already answered.

Chef , is there any chance that that FTV footage robert40 spoke of (South Beach Cook Off, I think?) might turn up on your website?

It would be great to see it.

He spoke of it highly when it ran.

Also, on your website ( one of the better ones, I think) in the timeline you show books or movies and lps that were influencing your life and your work maybe?

Anything hitting you hard that way these days?

Thanks!

edited to add:

Have you read the Marco Pierre White autobiography, 'White Slave' by yet?

Thoughts?

Edited October 27, 2006 by tan319 (log)

[docsconz]

This is sort of a repost, leaving out some art as food and GILT question I feel you've already answered.

Chef , is there any chance that that FTV footage robert40 spoke of (South Beach Cook Off, I think?) might turn up on your website?

It would be great to see it.

He spoke of it highly when it ran.

Also, on your website ( one of the better ones, I think) in the timeline you show books or movies and lps that were influencing your life and your work maybe?

Anything hitting you hard that way these days?

Thanks!

edited to add:

Have you read the Marco Pierre White autobiography, 'White Slave' by yet?

Thoughts?

←

Paul's website.

[veda]

Paul, some questions for you and observations about Gilt.

My initial meal at Gilt was quite good, probably the best among 3.

I ended up recommending the restaurant to quite a few of my clients of whom cost was a non issue.

Removing $$$ from the equation, the main achilles heel of the restaurant as reported to me was that most felt the serving style was too tiresome. These were quite food savvy people who have dined all over the world so it wasnt so much perception as being overwhelmed with what in thier opinions were too many flavors in rapid succession.....such as dishes like the "flavors of winter".

The first question is how do you balance the complexity of the communication of "deliciousness" combined with creativity ?

Where do you draw the line when it's too much in the sense of titration ?

Do you define words like "delicious" and "sublime" as your perception of the dish as it leaves the kitchen or how important is it that the diner agrees ?

Certainly once you have communicated your vision on the plate, the diner could be a complete philistine who doesnt get it, how important is it to win them over...?

A lot of questions of Philosophy and vision have been asked, do you think food should make an attempt to communicate an intellectual point or should it simply rely on baseline "deliciousness".

Also, you came from the MPW/Gagnaire old school in which there was no Methocel, Activa, Gellan Gum, Pacojets and other fancy gadgets, though you are clearly a visionary who continues to push on, how important is it to you to counsel young cooks to be solid in the basics before trying to be a Paul Liebrandt or a Wylie dufrese ?

←

despite using these newer techniques, I do not base my cuisine around them,ask anyone who has worked for a good time in my kitchen and they will tell you that i am finatical about learning the basics first this wis my underlinying philosophy

[Nathan]

"well the format at gilt was not really a tasting menu,we gave multiple amuse buche,and a pre dessert,and lots of side dishes."

What I meant was that this was a de facto tasting menu...and that it made Gilt a better value than it first appeared to be.

But I thought that initial perception was a problem.

In that sense, something more streamlined (at a lower initial dollar point) might make more sense and it sounds like that's the line you're thinking on....

[veda]

This is sort of a repost, leaving out some art as food and GILT question's I feel you've already answered.

Chef , is there any chance that that FTV footage robert40 spoke of (South Beach Cook Off, I think?) might turn up on your website?

It would be great to see it.

He spoke of it highly when it ran.

Also, on your website ( one of the better ones, I think) in the timeline you show books or movies and lps that were influencing your life and your work maybe?

Anything hitting you hard that way these days?

Thanks!

edited to add:

Have you read the Marco Pierre White autobiography, 'White Slave' by yet?

Thoughts?

←

I do not think i could put the ftv stuff up, copyright?

there is going to be be a new longer video going up next of the service at gilt, shot by some friends,Ihave read white slave- Its good!

film wise-the last king of Scotland-Forest Whittiker is amazing

[veda]

"well the format at gilt was not really a tasting menu,we gave multiple amuse buche,and a pre dessert,and lots of side dishes."

What I meant was that this was a de facto tasting menu...and that it made Gilt a better value than it first appeared to be.

But I thought that initial perception was a problem.

In that sense, something more streamlined (at a lower initial dollar point) might make more sense and it sounds like that's the line you're thinking on....

←

yes this is correct

[tan319]

Paul, some questions for you and observations about Gilt.should it simply rely on baseline "deliciousness".

Also, you came from the MPW/Gagnaire old school in which there was no Methocel, Activa, Gellan Gum, Pacojets and other fancy gadgets, though you are clearly a visionary who continues to push on, how important is it to you to counsel young cooks to be solid in the basics before trying to be a Paul Liebrandt or a Wylie dufrese ?

←

despite using these newer techniques, I do not base my cuisine around them,ask anyone who has worked for a good time in my kitchen and they will tell you that i am finatical about learning the basics first this wis my underlinying philosophy

←

I've always felt that Chef Liebrandt was being kind of pigeonholed as a "Mad Scientist" because of his use of a few of the newer products.

Just looking at the dishes say ( to me) that this is being cooked by some one who knows how to cook.

Even back in the ArtCulinaire 'Rillettes' article from the ATLAS days , I felt that his food reflected more of his French background in cooking, especially Gagnaire, with of touch of all of these great things that were ( and are) going on in Italy and of course, Spain.

Personally, I'll be estatic when Gellan gums and Tapioca Maltodextrin are as normal to have in a kitchen as salt and pepper...

OK, maybe Harissa and Siracha and wasabi.

[Vadouvan]

Thanks for the Answer Paul.

Mentorship is one of the important aspects of cooking today and I applaud you as regards "sir snack".

I would like to wish you good luck in your next project but luck hasnt a whole lot to do with it, preparedness does..... as does flexibility.......so I wish you inexpensive roadblocks.....

There are always roadblocks.

Looking for restaurant space I am finding out is worse than buying a car, even with excellent credit.

Cheers

I've always felt that Chef Liebrandt was being kind of pigeonholed as a "Mad Scientist" because of his use of a few of the newer products.

I actually wasnt suggesting the mad scientist characterization, in fact the food at gilt was pretty transparent regardng the use of moder structural ingredients. It was more of a question of a growing trend in the cooking youth.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[tan319]

This is sort of a repost, leaving out some art as food and GILT question's I feel you've already answered.

Chef , is there any chance that that FTV footage robert40 spoke of (South Beach Cook Off, I think?) might turn up on your website?

It would be great to see it.

He spoke of it highly when it ran.

Also, on your website ( one of the better ones, I think) in the timeline you show books or movies and lps that were influencing your life and your work maybe?

Anything hitting you hard that way these days?

Thanks!

edited to add:

Have you read the Marco Pierre White autobiography, 'White Slave' by yet?

Thoughts?

←

I do not think i could put the ftv stuff up, copyright?

there is going to be be a new longer video going up next of the service at gilt, shot by some friends,Ihave read white slave- Its good!

film wise-the last king of Scotland-Forest Whittiker is amazing

←

RE: The FTV footage: Thought maybe they wouldn't be so uptight if you just wanted to use some snippets of your appearance.

There would be a big FTV thingie in the corner, right?

Awwww, just thinking...

Can't wait to see the service footage.

Any music?

It's been awhile since the last NIN lp.