Methocel

[Rocklobster]

Bryan,

Shaping is an issue with the Hot Ice Cream. What works best is making a recipe that is fairly firm like a cream cheese consistency. Then you scoop the mix up in a ice cream scooper and allow it to run slighty down the sides. Then place it in the warm water to set. This is what you'll get if you follow that process.

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[BryanZ]

Sweet blog, Rocklobster. I wish I could devote as much time to experimentation as you are. My school isn't really as conducive to that kind of thing as yours is.

Anyway, what formulation of Methocel are you using. I'm aprehensive to create a firm base because then it won't "melt" as far and become as liquid-y. The fact that I don't have an ice cream scooper also makes life somewhat more difficult for me. I should buy one.

[Rocklobster]

As I told you in the PM I come up with alot of my own recipes, so I might as well share it with the class. Heres one that I did for the Hot Ice cream in the middle. The one to the right is Alex's recipe.

306g Butter nut Squash Puree(strained in tammis)

230g Cream Cheese

80g Maple Syrup

154g Water

11.55g Methocel SGA 150

Puree in a Robot Coup all the ingredients without the water and the methocel (DO NOT ADD AIR!!!!!!!!!). Heat up the water to a boil stir in the methocel. Blend again to combine(DO NOT ADD AIR!!!!!!!!). Then let it sit in the fridge overnight. Poach it for a minute and let it set before service. Fear not It will "melt" Methocel looses its gelling properties as it cools regardless(from my experience) of how much you add. But my formula works so fear not.

Bryan... I dont have an ice cream scoop either haha. I used a round measuring spoon i recieved from my school kit. I knew it would come in handy some day haha.

Ok Well give it a try. Feel free to ask me any further questions.

William aka ROCKLOBSTER

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[BryanZ]

Interesting call on the squash puree.

Although there aren't many of us making this kind of stuff here, I fully second the not adding air (with the exclamation points).

[twodogs]

interesting recipe...

[skidude72]

After reading through this topic ive come up with a plan of action... IM going to follow the ideas in food recipe, because i want vanilla flavored ice cream. first I'm going to mix all the primary ingredients and blend. ill let the mixture sit overnight in the refrigerator to let any air bubbles surface. the next day ill boil water add the methocel and mix that into the base, again ill let it sit overnight to release any air bubbles. day three ill poach the ice cream and see how it comes out.

P.S. i only have SG A7C which has the same gelling temperature as SG A150 but a higher viscosity. so my question is do you think it will help or hurt the texture.

[Rocklobster]

interesting recipe...

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Its thanks to you alex! The formualtion on the right is your recipe and it was very tasty!

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[Rocklobster]

After reading through this topic ive come up with a plan of action... IM going to follow the ideas in food recipe, because i want vanilla flavored ice cream. first I'm going to mix all the primary ingredients and blend. ill let the mixture sit overnight in the refrigerator to let any air bubbles surface. the next day ill boil water add the methocel and mix that into the base, again ill let it sit overnight to release any air bubbles. day three ill poach the ice cream and see how it comes out.

P.S. i only have SG A7C which has the same gelling temperature as SG A150 but a higher viscosity. so my question is do you think it will help or hurt the texture.

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Im no expert...but from my little tests i would say that you will get little or no bubbles to come out of the base due to its thickness. The best thing to do is not make them! But hey give it a try! Let us all know how it works out.

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[BryanZ]

As Rocklobster mentioned, the higher viscosity of the SG A7C will make it very difficult for air bubbles to rise from the base once the Methocel has been added. I do see some benefit in letting the base rest after you've mixed in the primary ingredients, though.

As I alluded to in a previous post, I believe the reason ideasinfood uses SG A150 is because of it's low viscosity. Once it cools and is in your mouth it's not thick and gummy but rather smooth and velvety. I really like the mouthfeel of their recipe but shaping for both Rocklobster and myself seems to be a problem. Still, I really want you to see your version wit the A7C as I'm sure it will be easier to shape.

And if Rocklobster doesn't mind, I'm going to try out his squash recipe later this week in a fall dessert I'm putting together. Got to find a suitable scooper though.

[Rocklobster]

As Rocklobster mentioned, the higher viscosity of the SG A7C will make it very difficult for air bubbles to rise from the base once the Methocel has been added.  I do see some benefit in letting the base rest after you've mixed in the primary ingredients, though.

As I alluded to in a previous post, I believe the reason ideasinfood uses SG A150 is because of it's low viscosity.  Once it cools and is in your mouth it's not thick and gummy but rather smooth and velvety.  I really like the mouthfeel of their recipe but shaping for both Rocklobster and myself seems to be a problem.  Still, I really want you to see your version wit the A7C as I'm sure it will be easier to shape.

And if Rocklobster doesn't mind, I'm going to try out his squash recipe later this week in a fall dessert I'm putting together.  Got to find a suitable scooper though.

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Go nuts guy! let me know how it comes out. I wanted to serve it with a spiced granita. I was going to make a broth with cinnamon, star anise, and other fall spices and then use that to make a granita. But i never got around to it. Let me know what you pair it with.

[Digijam]

I really like the mouthfeel of their recipe but shaping for both Rocklobster and myself seems to be a problem.  Still, I really want you to see your version wit the A7C as I'm sure it will be easier to shape.

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It's worth thinking of it in much the same way as a cake mix, rather than a process like spherification where the initial viscosity is all-important. Just pour into any small metal mould - a ladle would even do the trick - then let the heat seal it into shape.

Working from Alex and Aki's recipe at Ideasinfood I actually ended up thinning the mix quite a bit with milk to get a softer consistency - not sure if my yoghurt and cream cheese were unusually thick - and still found it set just fine. The sourness of the yoghurt was a little too prominent for my liking, though. Next time I'd probably substitute single cream or even a custard.

The other thing is that, even with the familiar vanilla flavour, the lack of 'ice' means my brain can't help but think of it more as a hot mousse than an ice cream. Good fun, though. And ripe for variation with heat-and-ice cream friendly flavours like squash, or cream infusions made with donuts, brioche, croissants, cake etc. Chocolate should work well, too, given its regular melt in the mouth properties.

Have you tried using the methocel for noodles yet? Really easy to make, and serving diners a syringe along with their sweet or savoury soup is pretty entertaining.

[BryanZ]

The ladle is a good idea, but mine is too big. I think I'm just going to buy a proper ice cream scoop and work from there. I do like Rocklobster's idea to fortify it with a puree, though.

In regards to the noodles, I haven't yet tried that application. So far I'm not that sold on "make-your-own" noodles, be they bound with egg whites, Activa, alginate, or what have you. Somehow, I find the flavor of what is being "noodled" isn't all that compelling or pervasive.

[Digijam]

In regards to the noodles, I haven't yet tried that application.  So far I'm not that sold on "make-your-own" noodles, be they bound with egg whites, Activa, alginate, or what have you.  Somehow, I find the flavor of what is being "noodled" isn't all that compelling or pervasive.

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A fair point. I think this is a potential problem with all these gelling techniques - getting flavours that are strong enough and also complementary to the texture, method of delivery and other dish components. And not just playing with the cool chemicals for the hell of it. Even the lemon agar noodle dish I had at El Bulli a couple of years back seemed kinda pointless - they tasted exactly like regular noodles coated in lemon oil.

In addition to the table 'theatre' aspect, the methocel noodles do have the advantage over activa-d in that they can be flavoured with pretty much any oil or essence, though, which makes them very flexible and easier to tweak for taste. And it's an interesting stepping stone if nothing else - over at Ideasinfood they worked on caramelised yoghurt noodles a while back, which I believe then led to their various cool gnocchi recipes.

It's also worth trying noodles (or any other methocel bound shape) by blending the methocel directly into a oil rather than heated water, and then just adding to the rest of the mix - eg. methocel mixed into sesame oil, blended with yoghurt and pumped into miso soup, or methocel mixed with yuzu/lemon/mandarin oil, mixed with yoghurt and pumped into a hot fruit or chocolate soup. Doing it this way takes the prep time down to around 30 seconds, something that might be useful for ZKitchen.

[Pat Churchill]

Instead of an ice cream scoop, have you tried a melon baller? It's my instrument of choice for the occasional (mainstream) presentation.

[BryanZ]

I've found that if you lightly grease the scooping surface of the spoon, ladle, ice cream scoop, etc you get a cleaner release and the gel is less subject to small surface tears that can make it seem somewhat waterlogged and appear less smooth.

[skidude72]

ok so my result was mixed...the ice cream didnt really hold shape, and was a little water-y... also it needed about 2 minutes to cool or it was too jelly like. another issue was my ice cream tasted like... cheese cake, so i think i need less cream cheese next time, maybe use a pinch of agar to stiffen the base, and add a lot more vanilla.

[Rocklobster]

Is that my recipe you used? or would that be the ideas in food recipe?

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[skidude72]

It was the ideas in food recipie.

ill probably tweak the recipie tonight see if i can come up with a more vanilla flavored recipie. my other question is what prevents creating hot ice cream with a more traditional ice cream base, such as custard?

[Rocklobster]

I found the ideas in food recipe a little loose as well... i think perhaps theres and altitude problem... as for the flavor i thought it tasted great...

What prevents from doing that..... i would say consistency, it would be too loose to shape into icecream shape. but i dont know try something new.

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[BryanZ]

You probably could, but the shaping issue again comes into play. And you can't just go about loading it with gelatin or what have you because then it won't melt after it's been scooped and poached.

[skidude72]

how bout corn starch or agar agar as thickening agents instead of gelatin so the ice cream shapes better. i think i will try this with a normal ice cream base, as well as a more vanilla flavored version of ideas in food version and see how it comes out, also maybe for the traditional base which is going to be a more liquid use 12-14 grams of methocel...

[cricklewood]

Ok I am wondering if anyone can help me with the best way to hydrate Methocel, I have a small quantity of A40M I am mostly interesting in this product to achieve the following ideas, hot flans or pannacottas(from vegetable purée or juice or dairy) to help bind terrine to make hot or warm terrines. What I would like to know is how to go about hydrating the stuff to then incorporate it to my prep. Do I add it to water(hot or cold) and then add that to my puree or aspic or do I add it directly, how to avoid air bubbles and such. I am sorry to bombard you all with questions but there is so little info on this stuff out there. Thanks in advance

[s_sevilla]

two things:

When you called Dow chemicals to get the samples, did they send them free or was

there a nominal charge.

Also, has anyone tried pouring the "ice cream" into a mold (say, silicone), and then poaching the whole thing in a bain marie or setting it in a steamer? Seams like it would work just as well, but you wouldn't get the ice cream scoop look, or a quenelle.

[BryanZ]

Ok I am wondering if anyone can help me with the best way to hydrate Methocel, I have a small quantity of A40M I am mostly interesting in this product to achieve the following ideas, hot flans or pannacottas(from vegetable purée or juice or dairy) to help bind terrine to make hot or warm terrines. What I would like to know is how to go about hydrating the stuff to then incorporate it to my prep. Do I add it to water(hot or cold) and then add that to my puree or aspic or do I add it directly, how to avoid air bubbles and such. I am sorry to bombard you all with questions but there is so little info on this stuff out there. Thanks in advance

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On the contrary, Dow actually has a ton of literature on its products in terms of hydration. Do some searching or wait for me to finish exams in a couple weeks and I'll send you stuff or just call them and ask for some lit.

I prefer to hydrate in hot water and whisk. At this point air bubbles aren't so much a problem. You can also disperse it into other dry ingredients or into oil. Once you've got it hydrated, incorporate it into your puree or what have you. If you want a bubble-free gel this is where you've got to be careful. I now use a spoon or whisk to incorporate, not a blender.

sevilla,

Be creative, that's all I can tell you. While lying is not nice, I'm sure you can think of something.

The mold isn't a bad idea. If we put the ice cream into something as simple as an plastic Easter egg (first thing that came to mind) you might be able to get a pretty cool shape.

[Rocklobster]

Ok so this might not work... but since were talking about shapes and Zupon mentioned it... why not take an egg and blow the yolk and white out of it and have an empty egg shell. Fill that with something. Or in WD50 style try and make a carrot and coconut soft boiled egg. You could fill the egg most of the way with the yogurt and inject the carrot into the middle. If you wanted to get real precise you could calculate the volume of the egg by submerging it in a measuring cup before to see how much space is in the egg, then when you fill it with the yogurt youll know how much is the egg and how much carrot you can get inside....and then just blanch the whole guy and serve it. ...Wow... thats actually kinda interesting, that was just a little stream of consciousness but i thnk that might actually be something to try.