eBay Wine Purchases

[SiseFromm]

I searched the site for a topic touching on this subject but didn't see anything specific. I have heard from some traditional wine merchants that counterfeit wines have begun surfacing on eBay. I presume that means cheap wines with false labels sold as the real deal. I don't have any direct personal experience with anybody that has suffered a bogus wine purchase through eBay, but I have been shopping there recently and I have picked up a couple of great wines recently that I wouldn't have been able to purchase anywhere else near me.

I'm sure with especially older vintages it's easy to see if a new, digitally printed label has been used. I would be nervous if I bought a wine from the 1960's or 1970's and it looked like it was fresh off the assembly line, but what about wines from California from the early nineties? Wouldn't it be easy to pass off fake product as the real thing?

Is this something wine buyers should be actively aware of when browsing eBay listings?

[djsexyb]

i have been an ebay member (sellar and buyer) a long time., though have never traded or purchased wine. it is rare that you get any fraudulent/misrepresented items and when you do, ebay (as well as paypal, if you use that for your online instnat payments) does have several very good purchaser protection plans that will refund your money if you are not satisfied and it is proven that you were given fraudulent materials. i have not bought any wines off ebay, but when i do find something i like(want) i will not hesitate.

other wine auction sites that you should be aware of that offer great deals on wide varieties of wine are: wineBid.com and winecommune.com

[SiseFromm]

I agree with your statements. I've been buying and selling vintage toys on eBay for almost 10 years now (my registration shows 1997). That in itself is crazy actually now that I write it out. I have well over 500 positive feedbacks with a 100% member rating. Frauds have been something we've been dealing with in the toy world for the last couple of years, but it seems manageable and smart buyers rarely get taken. The problem with eBay wine is that it is a category I'm largely unfamiliar with. I don't know the sellers, I don't know other members of the auction wine buying community, and I don't know what the tell-tale red flags are as I do, with expert-level knowledge, with my usual order of collectibles business.

There are purchase protection options when paying through PayPal, but they are offered at a fee . . . and most importantly, am I really going to remember sometime in the next couple of years when I open that 1986 Pavillion Rouge from whom I made the purchase? Will PayPal really protect me that far down the road? How will I be able to tell if the 1997 Duckhorn Merlot is really 1997 Duckhorn Merlot?

Finally, what about reports from traditional retailers of fraud on internet wine purchases? Certainly they must have some insight? Any insiders on the board?

EDIT: It looks like I've been on for 8.5 years actually. My registration shows as:

Member since: Dec-10-97

Edited June 22, 2006 by SiseFromm (log)

[russ parsons]

buying old wine is a tricky proposition in the best of cases and i certainly wouldn't consider an internet auction site one of those. i'd be very hesitant to buy older wine from anyone i didn't know well and trust. so much of the value of the wine depends on storage. it's not like an antique toy or postcard, where you can inspect the item visually. you don't know whether it's a good bottle or not until it's been opened and poured. and even then you can't be sure whether it was bad wine or bad storage (or bad shipping ... a morning on the front porch will cook an old burgundy to death).

furthermore, i keep hearing reports that as the auction market has gone through the roof, more and more counterfeits are showing up. there is absolutely know way of knowing you've bought one of these.

[Fat Guy]

My understanding is that the wine sales portion of eBay doesn't work like the rest of eBay. Sellers have to be licensed and qualified before they can sell wine through eBay. As far as I know, there are only a few licensed and qualified sellers, and their reputations are critical to their success.

[MaxH]

Two cents' worth on this big topic:

There's brisk business in counterfeiting prestigious wines. I've seen instances. It's brazen with rare wines of high name recognition (thus burlesquing the everyday prospect of buying by label rather than taste).

An extreme case is a legendary wine, 1945 Romanée-Conti from Burgundy. People who've tried the real stuff say it's a truly great and historic wine. However, many more bottles reportedly have been sold than were made (two barrels, 600 or so bottles). Reportedly no oversize bottles were released, and this is hardly secret. Yet one expert says that at a random time nowadays you can find offered online two to four magnums (double bottles), "and in a good month, a jeroboam." (I checked a mainstream online wine site and instantly found two magnums, asking over $50,000.) I've heard of them appearing elsewhere too, at retailers. The expert's comment implicitly argues something about due diligence by these sellers.

[SiseFromm]

My understanding is that the wine sales portion of eBay doesn't work like the rest of eBay. Sellers have to be licensed and qualified before they can sell wine through eBay. As far as I know, there are only a few licensed and qualified sellers, and their reputations are critical to their success.

←

You are correct sir. I don't know when those changes were instituted but there was a point some time ago when anybody could jump on eBay and sell bottles from their personal collection. Those days are over and recently, some auctions I've been tracking were pulled early because the sellers did not meet eBay’s rigorous new selling criteria for wines.

I've purchased 15 or so bottles in the last couple of months and all, I believe, came from one of just 3 sellers. These sellers seem to note specifically their cellaring procedures. I feel comfortable in my recent purchases, but it’s something that’s been on my mind recently.