Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

[shawng]

Sorry Market for not getting back to you sooner. I am glad though that matthewj was able to elaborate and I do agree with his suggestions.

Now certainly there are some journalist who may be doing their part as you may be. But it takes more than a single effort, although it starts there. Unfortunatly there are realistically three columnist that people listen to in philly. The good thing is that I think I have seen all of them read this thread so they are interested. It is possible that they haven't been "movers and shakers" but that is probably by choice. I believe they can be if they want change. So either they pick up what were talking about or possibly catch on to what others may write about whether it be a smaller local scale or national.

Don't get me wrong we also need to give you something to write about. For now their are things that matthewj mentioned to get started on. Philly in general is way behind the curve. We are finally going to have the smoking ban after about every other civilized city did it with out a problem. The liquor laws need to be updated. The bottom line is that they are extremely confiding to the success of a new restaurant or any young chef that wants to do good interesting food. This problem needs to be exploited instead of celebrated. I understand that byo's can be cool and fun, also that we were alittle forced to make them that way. But in order for the food scene to grow there has to be room for chefs and restaurants to be successful.

Of course this is alot to ask and say especially for a city that has been very resistant upon change ( not necassarily meaning about food industry). Philly moves slow but this is definitly the time for change. With change, what we mainly need to do whether we are journalist or cooks or foh is support philly and each other.

[Vadouvan]

The biggest thing holding the city back in terms of a restaurant renaissance is real estate prices.

What landlords are asking these days is just absurd.

The sad thing is most property owners would make more over the long term instead of gougy prices with no incentives up front.

That's why we get Chains, Starr,Byob.

But...things are changing slowly.

[MarketStEl]

The biggest thing holding the city back in terms of a restaurant renaissance is real estate prices.

What landlords are asking these days is just absurd.

The sad thing is most property owners would make more over the long term instead of gougy prices with no incentives up front.

That's why we get Chains, Starr,Byob.

But...things are changing slowly.

←

Case in point on your statement about landlords:

The space at the intersection of 10th Street, Reed Street and East Passyunk Avenue.

For a number of years, this was occupied by a branch of Nifty Fifty's, the local retro-burger/soda joint chain. The store did very well and attracted traffic to this semi-busy intersection well into the night.

Then--so my friend Herb Moskowitz, who was a fan of the place, told me--the landlord jacked up the rent, presumably to capture a share of the success. (I believe the economists call this "rent-seeking behavior"--in this case, the term is meant literally.)

Nifty Fifty's balked and closed up shop at that location, moving the South Philly operation to South Jersey (and thus following in the footsteps of a generation or two of South Philly Italians).

Since then, at least two restaurants have opened in that space. Both closed within a few months of opening.

You might think the landlords would get the message. Apparently, they don't.

Now, I realize that what all of you have been talking about is the ultra-high end of the dining spectrum rather than the more pedestrian realm represented by this place. But I believe the tale is illustrative all the same.

[MarketStEl]

Market, did I see that you work at Widener University? if so What school?  I graduated the Hospitality School. 

I work in the Office of University Relations, in the Public Relations Department. As is the case in most such departments, my job--make that one of my jobs--is to pitch the media on reporting about things happening here or using our faculty as experts for commentary (e.g., I lined up two professors to argue pro and con on the benefits of casino gambling for Chester; the essays ran in the Delaware County Daily Times the Friday of the licensing hearings for Chester Downs^W^WHarrah's Chester Racetrack and Casino). My bailiwick is the entire campus, including the School of Hospitality Management.

Click on the link to my foodblog in my .sig--you will see a couple of posts devoted to the School of Hospitality Management, with pictures. I'm impressed with the caliber of Widener's program.

All the writers have an agenda, that's why they write. no?

Well I know not so many have control over this, but a food section would be nice in the inky again.  I hate that it is split up into the image section, and the food section.  It is just stupid.

also I think the writer need to push themselves a little more to be ahead of the food curve.  It seems like the writers pick up a topic, weeks after the other cities have been through with it. 

For example:  Allen Richman wrote that Vetri is the best Italian restaurant in the country.  That is huge.  He also wrote that Philadelphia would not even know it. 

That pissed me off.  Because he is right. 

He talked about the roasted goat he used from Bethlehem.  Or the product he uses from four story hill farm, in Northern PA.  Why not do an article on that instead of why I love the cheesesteak, or why Genos need to take the sign down.  Who cares that is not food news worthy.  Maybe a good editorial for the paper, but not food. 

Write that Pa has most of the high end products that every chef in New york wants.

Like 4 story, Elysian fields lamb, Jamison Farm Lamb.  And then question why if these restaurants are so great, why aren't they using these local products?

Also support of events needs to be 100%.  I always hated going to SOS in Philadelphia,  But when I went to other cities events they were well run, and well covered.  I remember the Starchefs event at the Ritz, it was small and not covered well.  I went to another cities Star chefs, and it was mobbed.

Did you all know that Fred Ortega Has some of the best chocolates in the country.

Do an Article on Fred and how he became a chocolatier, not how ma Kettle makes great fudge.

Laban needs to re-review a lot more.  And it should not be some small blurb.  Restuarants live a die by his reviews.  Venus and Cowboy, Out of the Blue, Tree Tops, Sprigs.  He needs to review the restaurant that he smashed again so that they can at least make a effort to change.

Listen.. I am not a food writer.  But I am an avid food reader.  I like to know about everything.  But please no more articles on Hamburgers.  Pizza, Matzoh Ball soup, Christmas cookies, and of course cheesteaks.  We know which is the best, who makes the best and  we know how to make them.  If we can't, just Google it.

We need solid writing.  And solid article about interesting things is my bottom line.

I think you guys can do that.

←

I may not be interpreting this correctly, and if I'm not, I'm sure you will set me straight, but one of the underlying messages I pick up in your comments is that our food writers should be advocates for the local food community--maybe even going so far as to openly promote deserving restaurants, suppliers, producers, and industry folk.

You may have a point here, and I think it may even be possible to do this without doing the reader a disservice. But I think that most journalists see themselves first and foremost as guardians of a trust with the reader, to whom they owe first loyalty. And when that comes to reporting on a subject as subjective as food, that means offering their considered (or even ill-considered) opinions on the places they write about, for better or worse. While boosterism has had a place in journalism for years--and newspapers today still engage in the practice when they deem something worthy of such treatment--it tends to be viewed as a bit unseemly at best by many reporters.

Again, I would direct you to my foodblog for a little commentary on how I think the dining scene here got to its current state, which, for all the handwringing on this thread, I don't think is all that bad. Which is not to deny your point that it could be better. Unfortunately, the vehicles by which food writers here can reach a large region-wide audience are few: specifically, the Inquirer and Philadelphia magazine. (Not to say it's not good at what it does, but Philadelphia Style IMO attracts an audience that is more interested in the "scene" than in the substance of dining out and thus is less influential than it could be, and the alt-weeklies also appeal to a relatively narrow segment of the regional audience, one that skews young, which means that some very fine restaurant reviews (especially in Philadelphia Weekly) get less notice than they might deserve.)

Now, I don't know whether the audience might be interested in some of the inside-baseball stuff being aired on this thread. Perhaps it might add some sizzle to the food pages; perhaps it might prove distratcting or turn readers off.

Or maybe WHYY should take as much of an interest in dining out as it does in cooking in and launch a show (TV or radio) devoted to the local dining scene.

Forgive my rambling. I guess all I'm really saying is that you raise some good points, touch on a sensitive matter, and open the door to a bunch of possibilities.

[matthewj]

There are some salient points that have been made. i need a little more time to gather my thoughts, before adding to the fray. I will say this. I think that a lot of times journalists, have some notion of loyalty to the reader, but it often gets lost with the effort of a "good" story. I believe a lot of the food journalist in the city use the articles as platforms and speeches about what they want, and disguise it as a plight for the common person. I think that a lot of the article are not about as important topics as it should be in the paper. Is it a Food section or is it a homemakers chance to make apple pie forty different ways. I think that they have a good target audience that will read the challenging ideas, but they choose not to write them. That is disloyal to the reader, when they pick up the paper.

[bigboss]

Wow, I am really impressed that this thread has evolved from a snarling admonition of our former boss to an interesting and intellectual discussion of some real issues for the city of Philadelphia. It seems to me that the dining scene here is trapped in a vicious cycle that needs to be broken in order for any of the changes suggested to begin to happen. And at the core of the problem, like satan ensconced at the bottom of the inferno, is money- the most honest descriptor of human behavior.

Vadouvan and Market hit the nail on the head with the real estate issue. It's extremely difficult to operate a restaurant, particularly a seriously food-oriented one, at some of the rents being charged let alone accumulate enough profit to reinvest and grow one's business. This in turn translates into higher prices on the menu that limits the market of customers going to one's restaurant. Further complicating matters is the PLCB monopoly on alcohol distribution and the politics of liquor licensing. Having a fixed number of licenses creates an unnecessary economic impact on the potential restauranteur from the legal fees in the application process to the actual cost of the license, which has become commodified. Not to mention the taxes the State and City put on alcohol once you have been granted the right to buy it from them. Once again this is reflected on the menu and impacts the market of potential customers. BYO's circumvent this, obviously, by not serving alcohol and keeping their prices accordingly lower. Starr smartly markets the atmosphere of his restaurants and sells gallons of pricey drinks. The apex restaurants ( Le Bec, Fountain, Striped Bass, etc.) have defined their clientele to be willing to spend the money necessary to be successful. Vetri somehow gets away with charging the prices they do by marketing the value of "cucina rustica." But to make a long story short, without some SERIOUS financial backing and a good bit of luck it is difficult to operate a restaurant that both serves high-caliber cuisine and is not prohibitively expensive to your target core clientele.

The cycle is further continued by the proliferation of mediocre restaurants that the aforementioned economic conditions create and their influence on the dining public. If you are an average person who is not in the business or who does not travel to New York or Europe to dine, the restaurants in Philadelphia probably seem quite fine. That's because they are. But, as matt stated previously, the types of restaurants out there tend toward the "ultimate average" with few exceptions due to economic conditions. Thus, the dining public is unaware that the quality of dining in the city could be categorically better, at all price points. The education of the public and its consequent raising of expectations for all restaurants is a crticial issue being arrested currently. This, in turn, keeps average businesses afloat, Starr filthy rich, talented cooks fleeing and both investors and chefs from outside wary.

Then there is the issue being debated about the importance of the food media and their role as advocate or observer. Frankly speaking, if there's nothing interesting happening in the restaurant scene then why should the yoke (ha-ha) fall on their shoulders to create something? It is our responsibility as culinary professionals to give food writers something to report. Perhaps there can be a dialogue created whereby food writers can discuss potential topics with local professionals (i.e. what's the hottest seasonal vegetable?, what is cooking a la plancha?, etc.) when crafting their stories. Creating a sort-of collaboration between the media and the culinary professionals may benefit the average reader by introducing them to the world of cuisine. It could help to educate the customer as to what they are purchasing in a restaurant and why it may be costly to prepare. Of course, because the population reading a given publication is necessarily diverse, there will always be the need for articles about chocolate chip cookies and who makes the best cheesesteaks in town. However, welcoming and encouraging the involvement of the media in the culinary world could have a profound impact on the understanding of the cuisine in Philadelphia.

So the cycle needs to be broken somewhere. Will it be the State, the chefs, the public or some deus ex machina? We shall see. The economic conditions in the city are a challenge, but it only takes one forward-thinking restaurant team to demonstrate that success is possible and that this city can do better. Sorry this is so long; I was away for the weekend and had plenty of time to mull over my thoughts.

[Holly Moore]

Having been there for the first restaurant renaissance, it is my recollection that many of the restaurant renaissance restuarants opened in secondary locations - especially those who were undercapitalized. That is still possible nowadays. Center City is pretty much out of the question unless one is opening a restaurant projected at a million or more in sales. But as I said earlier in this thread there are still reasonable locations - upper South Street especially, between Broad and 21st.

Back in school I learned that a restaurant's rent should be about 6% of sales. Maybe that has changed, but it can't be all that different. A $4,000 a month rental projects to $800,000 a year. $5,000 projects to $1,000,000. Center City prime rentals are that or higher for a relatively small location. Plus they are almost always net, net, meaning the tenant pays real estate taxes and building insurance.

Last time I looked, upper South Street was $1200 to $1600 monthly for similar square footage. Lesser locations, so a restaurant like Pumpkin must make people willing to head there. The location is a risk, for sure. But for a restaurant just getting off the ground it's a lot easier to write a $1500 rent check than one for $5000.

[MarketStEl]

Hollly raises a valid point and one that a savvy restaurateur might take into account when deciding whether or not to open that restaurant that could push the local dining scene into a higher orbit.

Tacconelli's reputation demonstrates that Philadelphians will travel to out-of-the-way neighborhoods for clearly superlative fare. Jeez, I'd walk there again from Somerset El stop as I did on my first visit--and walk back after dark as I also did. (Not that I'd recommend you follow in my footsteps, so to speak.)

And one of the best new restaurants of the 1990s, Café Napoleon, began as a pastry shop in the same neighborhood Tacconelli's calls home, then moved to Chestnut Hill and spread its wings some before making the leap to Center City. We might still be singing its praises today had the Delaware River Port Authority not decided to begin an interminable PATCO elevator construction project right at its front door within about two months of its opening in town at 1500 Locust.

So perhaps the way out of the infinite loop of very-good-but-not-great that Vadouvan describes is for some enterprising restaurateurs to start looking in some of those outlying neighborhoods that already support some decent restaurants (e.g., 47th and Baltimore, 69th Street Terminal, Roxborough, East Falls...) and open a place that will start tongues wagging, thus giving the food writers some juicy dish to report, which will in turn pique interest, which will....

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

Well I know not so many have control over this, but a food section would be nice in the inky again.  I hate that it is split up into the image section, and the food section.  It is just stupid.

Laban needs to re-review a lot more.  And it should not be some small blurb.  Restuarants live a die by his reviews.  Venus and Cowboy, Out of the Blue, Tree Tops, Sprigs.  He needs to review the restaurant that he smashed again so that they can at least make a effort to change.

Strange that after Emeril & Rachael demonstrate that there's a bottomless pit of desire for food-related content, they pare down the food-related content. I say make the food section whole again and while you're at it, make the comics bigger again.

---

Maybe Craig needs a cleanup hitter, someone to follow up on his reviews.

[Vadouvan]

what is cooking a la plancha

Um...Cheesesteaks ....

[Vadouvan]

So perhaps the way out of the infinite loop of very-good-but-not-great that Vadouvan describes is for some enterprising restaurateurs to start looking in some of those outlying neighborhoods that already support some decent restaurants (e.g., 47th and Baltimore, 69th Street Terminal, Roxborough, East Falls...) and open a place that will start tongues wagging, thus giving the food writers some juicy dish to report, which will in turn pique interest, which will....

Sadly, unfortunately the areas you mention do not sustain the kind of revenue year round to make it work.

See...here is the problem.

You cannot sell enough food to justify a half million dollar plus investment without some serious bar volume. In fact a lot of people start with that intention, great food, bar, lounge.

Only problem is they figure out they make more money with less hassle on cocktails (not wine) and so the food take a backseat till it evolves into complete mediocrity.

Translation : OLDE CITY.

As far as foot traffic, there isnt enough in West Philly or East Falls, remember VERGE ?

Manayunk is Over, No parking, not much exciting except perhaps Jakes ?

From a PR standpoint, as far as national magazines are concerned, if you arent in downtown philly, you may as well not exist

Center City rents just have to become more realistic.

The problem is realtors and property owners seem to only understand the business models of Starr restaurants.

Frankly when it comes down to it, I believe a lot of people just have little respect for the art of creating good food, I am not talking about saying it, I am talking about behaving in a way that communicates it......

You dont want more Applebey's and red lobster's ?

Lower Rent.

[Holly Moore]

It has been my experience that landlords would rather not have a restaurant as a tenant. With regular retail there are far fewer problems with bugs, rats and dumpsters. No cooking odors. No need to run an exhaust to the roof.

If it must be a restaurant tenant, then a TGIF, Olive Garden or any credit worthy, deep pocketed national chain is preferable to an independent or local, especially one with less than adequate capitalization.

There is one exception. The landlord that loves to have a restaurant come into an old building and install new electric and plumbing and bring the building up to code. Then the restaurant goes out of business and the property owner ends up with a much more valuable property.

The reason rents are so high in Center City is because so many national retail chains and restaurant chains are willing to pay big city rents. In the 80s and 90s Philadelphia Center City rents were some of the least expensive downtown rents available.

An upscale restaurant that can not justify Center City rents is going to have to do what it takes to be a destination restaurant. It can not rely on foot traffic. There are upscale restaurants in Philadelphia that have pulled it off, but none of the multiple Michelon star caliber.

It is too bad that restaurants are spending so much on decor that it costs a half a million to a million or more to open. I'd like to think that a minimalist decor (and minimal investment in decor) could sustain a really fine dining experience. But with the expectations set by Starr and the others, that would be another risk, along with the location.

[matthewj]

Great points BB. and very good as well V. .

You see folks some of things that all have brought up are great, but some flaws. Technically speaking on paper it could work outside the city. Let us take a look at an area that I am familiar with, Green street and above Callow Hill. Let us call it Fairmount. This too me is a gold mine. Great residential locations, good walk ability. Nice all around area. Why no more restaurants? Well I lived on green street for about 4 years and Wallace street for about 4 years. So I saw the change in the neighborhood. But it really did not change too much. Rent got a lot a lot higher, but the drugs were still at the end of the corner. Run down houses, right next to condos that were going for 400k. No one wants to go and fight parking, the drug corners and feel unsafe to go to a restuarant no matter how good.

The rent goes up way to fast to coincide with the gentrification of the neighborhood. Making it impossible for a up and coming restuarant to afford a place.

Let us also look at a vacant restaurant Cuvvee Notredame. ( Sniff Sniff... )

I bet you, and i have not been to Philly for quite some time that it is still vacant.

Still. Still. Why? I can come up with a couple of theories. But I happened to see the previous tenants rental agreement, I would have left in the night too.

I do not think that Philadelphians are as eager to go to a "destination restuarant" as one may think. Tacs is Pizza, dam good pizza, but pizza none the less. That alone can support itself in any economy. Pizza is not challenging.

Another issue is not only rent but, red tape, unions, wage taxes, business tax, ( that needs to be paid no matter if the business makes money or not.

I mean I have seen unions in Philadelphia picket a deli. A deli. Give me a break.

Take a look at the opening a restuarant in Philadelphia thread, and take a look at that BS that gentleman went through. Is his restuarant open?

About giving Writers something to write about. I remember. Pitch after Pitch, that I gave to Lacroix, to give to the papers, magazines, locally, and they did not pick any of them up. But months later I saw the idea in another cities paper from another restuarant in their city. And Bam.

An example BB do remember when I started pairing eggs with everything. Or when I started pairing warm ingredients with raw fish. That was in 1999. I pitched that to an unnamed journalist. They passed. How about small plates upscale. That is a neat idea. Two months later Crudo was coined in NYC. No saying that we invented it but we were on that wave and the Journalists missed it.

My point is that the Journalist have to look and listen to the chefs a bit more take a chance. and go with it. Not just wait until some one else does it. Brinn how long have we been using bitter chocolate in our salmis.

BB do you also remember Ricky Nicky did not like chef much, so he never printed anything nice to say. Or always gave a back handed compliment. How many wine dinners were missed, or not printed.

As for the front of the house. I remember Craig Bashed a small independent restuarant for not having a decour to his liking. Not cool if that is all they could afford. Hence flashy lights, short skirts, a lot of Drama, little substance.

I like the idea of that forum. I want the public to know why some ingredients cost so much, why one steak cost different from another. Why We hardly ever used Sammies and Sons. Who is Brown trading, Why is chefs garden so expensive.

It is important to know. A more educated clientele, is a more discerning clientele.

We also need to reinvest in the Book and The Crooks. I mean, I saw this years line up. Not that impressed. Too expensive. And not worht it for alot of small restuarants. Why do think Vetri does not participate. . If some one know someone, who knows someone. Let them know. 1000 for a chef, and not very good, is too much, plus food expenses, plus room and board. Not worht it.

[matthewj]

I know it is neat and all, but a restaurant with a Liquor license should not have to compete, and lose money to a BYOB. Because they have to do a BYOB night.

[Vadouvan]

the Book and The Crooks

Love it .....

I am assuming that isnt a typo ?

[Vadouvan]

You see folks some of things that all have brought up are great, but some flaws. Technically speaking on paper it could work outside the city. Let us take a look at an area that I am familiar with, Green street and above Callow Hill. Let us call it Fairmount. This too me is a gold mine. Great residential locations, good walk ability. Nice all around area. Why no more restaurants? Well I lived on green street for about 4 years and Wallace street for about 4 years. So I saw the change in the neighborhood. But it really did not change too much. Rent got a lot a lot higher, but the drugs were still at the end of the corner. Run down houses, right next to condos that were going for 400k. No one wants to go and fight parking, the drug corners and feel unsafe to go to a restuarant no matter how good.

The rent goes up way to fast to coincide with the gentrification of the neighborhood. Making it impossible for a up and coming restuarant to afford a place.

Let us also look at a vacant restaurant Cuvvee Notredame. ( Sniff Sniff...  )

I bet you, and i have not been to Philly for quite some time that it is still vacant.

Still. Still. Why? I can come up with a couple of theories. But I happened to see the previous tenants rental agreement, I would have left in the night too.

Back to my hypocricy argument Matt....

Not to turn this into a bitching thread, majority of the people out there I believe are hypocrites because while they lament the quality of restaurants, everything they do is designed to undermine better restaurants opening.

You have to kiss the "community associations's asses"

those "union laborers" who get thier panties in a bunch if you try to build your restaurant quickly with non union labor....

The liquor license attorney who charges you $5000 for 3 hrs of work.....

The neighborhood folks who say your prices are not "neighborhoody" like everyone is supposed to be freaking Dmitris cooking everything on the same 4x5 griddle and the vegetables taste like fish........

Arggghhhhhh....

Poor paul Lazrow indeed....

[MarketStEl]

I live around the corner and down the block from what was to have been Paul Lazrow's conveyor-belt sushi joint, and after following his baptism by fire, I guess I should wonder how any new independent restaurant opens in Center City at all. Did Greg Ling have deeper pockets behind him?

So I see you have some media relations experience, Matthew. It can get frustrating. (I put out a fair bit of effort to get advance press reporting for the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus' Kimmel Center debut. When even the outlets that tell you "Yeah, we want to do something on that" then do nothing, you begin to question your competence--and maybe your sanity. It's a little embarrassing to have your fellow singers ask "So what happened to that camera crew?" during rehearsal.) The only thing I could recommend to counter that is persistence, but ultimately, I think that in this town, this is an argument for more voices and outlets in the hope that some of them will zag where the Establishment zigs. Might Key to Philadelphia, the new entertainment/activities guide from the former publisher of the South Street Star, be such a vehicle? (Maybe I should see whether they're open to suggestions.)

Your point about pizza is well taken also. I guess pastry is also relatively simple; you certainly don't need all the space and overhead required to run a restaurant for a pastry shop. But I'm pretty sure that Napoleon didn't thrive solely on business from its Port Richmond neighbors. Maybe the owners "knew people who knew people," as you so aptly put it, but they did something that got the attention of patrons who would otherwise have no reason to visit the neighborhood. What this suggests to me is that, while difficult, it ought to be doable on a restaurant scale as well. 69th Street Terminal is a heavily trafficked district with excellent transit connections to boot; why wouldn't a really inventive restaurant have a fighting chance there?

Finally, I hear yet again the chief lament, the all-purpose explanation for anything having to do with why Philadelphia hasn't really lived up to what it seems everyone agrees is its enormous potential: Everything here is so insular and inbred. In which case, I hope all of you are on board with the various efforts (e.g., Campus Philly) to encourage students to come here to study and stay once they graduate. Along with those bargain-seeking New Yorkers, these are the best sources of fresh blood not wedded to The Way It's Always Been Around Here. I can guarantee you there are a few locals who would back you as well. I know at least one.

[bigboss]

This is exactly the type of hidden costs that my current employer is incurring while trying to open his restaurant. Union b.s. in order to begin construction, finding a liquor license and having a lawyer broker the transfer, schmoozing the city councilman, begging the neighborhood association to allow the construction, paying a premium for expediting a zoning hearing. It all adds up to a hefty economic cost in both time and money. I would like to know how the process of opening a restaurant happens in other cities and if this is normal or not.

As I see your post pop up, you do raise a good point that Greg Ling seems to be doing well at Raw. That space is right around the corner from where I live, and I always thought that it would make a neat restaurant space. Perhaps I can pick is brain for some inspirations and/or enlightenment.

[Vadouvan]

Did Greg Ling have deeper pockets behind him?

Um....Yes.

Actually Raw was built and concieved without any input from Greg Ling.

He came into the operation much later after it was built.

TONY...the owner has buckets of money from previously being involved in cellphone distribution and he basically wanted a sushi bar and lounge for him and his pals to hangout.

Tony is a great guy and he basically spent whatever it took............BUT he did all the renovations and work himself with mostly free rent during construction from Goldman Properties.

thereby circumventing all the BS Lazrow had to deal with.

[wkl]

any chance the local politico's, landlords, property mgrs in philly are reading this? any chance they care?

[MarketStEl]

any chance the local politico's, landlords, property mgrs in philly are reading this? any chance they care?

←

1) Maybe.

2) I doubt it.

And that's a shame.

[Vadouvan]

any chance the local politico's, landlords, property mgrs in philly are reading this? any chance they care?

Nope.....

Too busy reading surveillance reports from Foie Gras farms.......

[dagordon]

any chance the local politico's, landlords, property mgrs in philly are reading this? any chance they care?

Nope.....

Too busy reading surveillance reports from Foie Gras farms.......

←

Priceless.

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

It has been my experience that landlords would rather not have a restaurant as a tenant.  With regular retail there are far fewer problems with bugs, rats and dumpsters.  No cooking odors.  No need to run an exhaust to the roof.

If it must be a restaurant tenant, then a TGIF, Olive Garden or any credit worthy, deep pocketed national chain is preferable to an independent or local, especially one with less than adequate capitalization.

There is one exception.  The landlord that loves to have a restaurant come into an old building and install new electric and plumbing and bring the building up to code.  Then the restaurant goes out of business and the property owner ends up with a much more valuable property.

The reason rents are so high in Center City is because so many national retail chains and restaurant chains are willing to pay big city rents.  In the 80s and 90s Philadelphia Center City rents were some of the least expensive downtown rents available.

An upscale restaurant that can not justify Center City rents is going to have to do what it takes to be a destination restaurant.  It can not rely on foot traffic.  There are upscale restaurants in Philadelphia that have pulled it off, but none of the multiple Michelon star caliber.

It is too bad that restaurants are spending so much on decor that it costs a half a million to a million or more to open.  I'd like to think that a minimalist decor (and minimal investment in decor) could sustain a really fine dining experience.  But with the expectations set by Starr and the others, that would be another risk, along with the location.

←

I can't remember when I've seen a subject so thoroughly summarized in such a short space. Every word tells.

[matthewj]

I have just read the food section online for Philadelphia Inky. "On the side" complained about the "chainifying of the city". This is what we have been discussing all along, but the problem is after a four paragraph diatribe, he never once pointed out that the reasons for the chain restaurants proliferating in the city. It is good that he brings the problem into the public's attention, but we need solutions and and we need someone in the paper to force the issue.

Not just complain about an issue we have already discussed, but to actually take a stand on way or another.