Gilt

[tan319]

Tan319 hasn't reviewed Gilt, so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) he hasn't eaten there.  I understand wanting your own opinion confirmed, but I thought that didn't come into play in this case.

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I thought the "wagering" was a bit of a joke?

I'm a fan of Liebrandts and wish him well.

Is that wrong or a problem?

Many whose opinions I trust, on these pages AND off, have had a great experience there.

That's good enough for me.

[tan319]

But even the highest motives you posit seem low to me.

Remember, people aren't saying "I hope this restaurant I haven't yet eaten in turns out to be good."  They're saying "I hope this restaurant I haven't yet eaten in gets lots of stars (i.e., is recognized by an influential critic as good)," presumably so lots of consumers will then be induced to pay money to go to it.

In other words, they're saying, "I hope this restaurant is foisted on the paying populace as good -- whether it's actually good or not (because I have no way of knowing)."  Still seems low to me.

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Jesus....

Who's taking this stars thing too seriously???

If Liebrandt gets two or three, it will be a great thing for him, three especially.

If he gets dissed, people are still going to go there.

And when Michelin time comes 'round....

BTW, I'm sitting on a chair, is that too low?

[IML]

Although I think Gilt, like Cello before it, would be at the upper-end of its designated star category, I believe it should, and will, get three stars. The bread service is middling at best, and desserts (with the exception of the mignardises) can be completely written off. There are just too many details that need tweaking before one can mention Gilt's quality in the same breath as Per Se and the other four-stars. (It should be noted that I never found it overpriced, even before the supplement overhaul.)

il

[foodexile]

The review is online. But I must be stupid. I can't see the stars.

[IML]

Oh my god, what a snub. He just gave Gilt zero stars. He just put a stake right through that business' heart. At first I thought it must be a mistake, as his review doesn't read as dour as most of his zero through two-starred entries.

Edited February 8, 2006 by IML (log)

[oakapple]

Oh my god, what a snub.  He just gave Gilt zero stars.  He just put a stake right through that business' heart.  At first I thought it must be a mistake, as his review doesn't read as dour as most of his zero through two-starred entries.

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The rating is sometimes missing right after the review is posted. It will show up later. I can guarantee you it is not zero stars.

[Todd36]

Oh my god, what a snub.  He just gave Gilt zero stars.  He just put a stake right through that business' heart.  At first I thought it must be a mistake, as his review doesn't read as dour as most of his zero through two-starred entries.

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Can this be right? I can't find the stars either........I have a reservation for Friday....might get canceled if this is true....... I may disagree with Bruni's reviews but zero stars would give me pause....

[robert40]

Oh my god, what a snub.  He just gave Gilt zero stars.  He just put a stake right through that business' heart.  At first I thought it must be a mistake, as his review doesn't read as dour as most of his zero through two-starred entries.

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Calm down and don't have a heart attack on us. Lately they have not printed the stars to the next day.

[silentryan]

Two stars. Has to be somewhat of a disappointment, no? Four would have been too much to hope for, but I think three was a reasonable expectation, given the ambitions of the place.

[IML]

oakapple: You're probably right. I've noticed in recent weeks that the stars sometimes accompany the review when they first upload everything, and sometimes not. I was going to say, this review's tone feels as though it he's going to give it two. Zero didn't make any sense.

Todd36: Don't cancel. Liebrandt is extremely talented. I have enjoyed his food at all the other places he's cooked (minus those he was acting within a consulting position), and Gilt is his best effort yet.

[Todd36]

Two stars.  Has to be somewhat of a disappointment, no?  Four would have been too much to hope for, but I think three was a reasonable expectation, given the ambitions of the place.

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And the price range. It's square in three to four star price range, priced right at Daniel and Bouley. Still thinking if I want to go this Friday..........

[IML]

Go for lunch.

[robert40]

Yikes! Just noticed the two stars at the top of the review.

[IML]

When I first ate there, the only thought that ran through my mind was: WWBG? (What Would Bruni Give?)

[DutchMuse]

Yes, two stars. I think the overly 'haute' nature of the place worked against it....promised more than Bruni thought was delivered.

Will anyone forgive him (Bruni) for the corny line about the "lost sole?"

[BryanZ]

Well this should certainly spark some debate. I find Gilt to be far better than any 2-star meals I've had and better than some 3-star restaurants like Cru. Even to say that this restaurant is on the top-leve of the 2-star catergory is pretty absurd, I think. While I disagree with this, I'll direct my criticisms of the review itself to the Bruni thread.

[tan319]

Well...

I'll eat my own Words about stars and all that and just say, FB's attitude was pretty obvious after the "wine" article.

I don't get his beef with the roulades of sole?

It was one of the first things I learned at culinary school.

It wasn't topped with Comte cheese or but...

Still think these writers need to find something else to talk about except "the bats".

[ASM NY]

Disappointed to see only two stars, but not at all surprised given his earlier mentions on the place.

It struck me that he didn't like the fact that they bring so many amuses. I liked being served 8 very small dishes to begin the meal. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I do think it's a little overwhelming that they bring so many of these at the same time and crowd the table.

Regarding his mention of "too many ingredients", I personally think that is one of the things that makes this place good. These are generally elaborate preparations, not too many ingredients, but the use of ingredients in interesting combinations. I didn't have the same menu he did, but I found that the dishes we were served tasted best as a sum of their parts, not as individual elements that were in the plate.

[oakapple]

Two stars.  Has to be somewhat of a disappointment, no?  Four would have been too much to hope for, but I think three was a reasonable expectation, given the ambitions of the place.

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Yes, I can assure you they're deeply disappointed at Gilt today. Since this was a restaurant that had reasonable aspirations for four stars, a two-star rating is a significant slap-down.

Bruni has given the two-star kiss to a number of places that had far higher expectations: Café Gray, The Modern, Alto. But did anyone think that those places were going to get four stars? Not really. Gilt aims higher than any of them. Since I haven't eaten there, I can't say that Bruni is wrong. But probably not since Amanda Hesser's one-star review of Asiate has the actual rating been so much lower than what the restaurant had aimed for.

I must quote this sarcastic snippet at the bottom of the review that might otherwise be overlooked:

WINE LIST A blessing to the wealthy connoisseur of French vintages, a bit of a curse to others. Check out the lengthy volume of more affordable teas.

Edited February 8, 2006 by oakapple (log)

[Vadouvan]

He just didnt get it.

This is a problem with metropolitan newspapers focusing on consumerism and hiring clueless food critics. There are so many similarities between Gilt, Sketch in London and Gagnaire in Paris.

Bruni is simply way out of his league of food appreciation.

Cant wait till the three star review of del postos overpriced nothing new "I"-Talian food.

[tan319]

He just didnt get it.

This is a problem with metropolitan newspapers focusing on consumerism and hiring clueless food critics. There are so many similarities between Gilt, Sketch in London and Gagnaire in Paris.

Bruni is simply way out of his league of food appreciation.

Cant wait till the three star review of del postos overpriced nothing new "I"-Talian food.

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Love what you say about the "Del Postos" of NYC.

Certain people just can't go wrong, can they?

David Kinch, whom I've also have a lot of admiration for ( his philosphy, his compassion for food and the role he plays in it) is a lot more up their ally.

I think Gilt is going to do fine though.

If you think about it, a lot of the "bitchiness" of the review is FB's "friend" carping about two many flavours, etc.

[Sneakeater]

But even the highest motives you posit seem low to me.

Remember, people aren't saying "I hope this restaurant I haven't yet eaten in turns out to be good."  They're saying "I hope this restaurant I haven't yet eaten in gets lots of stars (i.e., is recognized by an influential critic as good)," presumably so lots of consumers will then be induced to pay money to go to it.

In other words, they're saying, "I hope this restaurant is foisted on the paying populace as good -- whether it's actually good or not (because I have no way of knowing)."  Still seems low to me.

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Jesus....

Who's taking this stars thing too seriously???

If Liebrandt gets two or three, it will be a great thing for him, three especially.

If he gets dissed, people are still going to go there.

And when Michelin time comes 'round....

BTW, I'm sitting on a chair, is that too low?

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I can see how that might have seemed much more personal than it was ever intended to be.

I think my main beefs are with the star system, with (big surprise!) Frank Bruni, and -- I have to say it -- with the occassional tendency you see on boards like this to put the interests of the supply side (the restauranteurs) over those of the paying customers. Not really appropriate to go into here -- but there are always those recurrent discussions of the star system to bore people in.

I'm sorry if I offended you, though, Ted. It's easy to see how I would have. I never meant that.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[JohnL]

He just didnt get it.

This is a problem with metropolitan newspapers focusing on consumerism and hiring clueless food critics. There are so many similarities between Gilt, Sketch in London and Gagnaire in Paris.

Bruni is simply way out of his league of food appreciation.

Cant wait till the three star review of del postos overpriced nothing new "I"-Talian food.

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I would argue that the Times is, in fact, attempting to be a "national" newspaper vs a "metropolitan" paper. I do not think this is a case of "consumerism" infecting the approach to restaurant reviewing.

If anything, the paper is losing relevance to NYers--hence its decline in local readership.

I do believe you are on to something with the "clueless food critics" statement.

Bruni's reviews are lacking in gravitas. They do not provide a context and perspective based upon knowledge and experience for readers.

I rarely find any information or perspective that makes the writing anything more than mundane.

I have little argument with Bruni's assessments of the food at face value--I simply do not trust him the way I would a critic of more substance.

also:

This review IMOP--proves that Bruni never should have used Gilt as a prime example for the earlier story about restaurant pricing practices. That story is rendered almost moot--Gilt obviously was a restaurant in progress at the time and hanging the pricing issue story on Gilt --which has subsequently changed its pricing--means the story now has little relevance.

This is why, for example, previews of theatrical performances are not reviewed or used as ammunition to make points about larger theatrical issues.

Finally, the silliness about the "Kubrickian decor/atmosphere" in the review of Gilt are an immature attempt to be prescient and "smart."

They are confusing and strained--not the style of someone who is "comfortable" with his/her reviewing and overall knowledge.

(I can't imagine Apple or Sokolov or Reichl resorting to this gimmick).

[Sneakeater]

The problem is that Bruni -- while clearly an enthusiastic restaurantgoer -- just doesn't know that much about food. He doesn't have the chops to be a restaurant critic. And, as you said, he has to cover that up with a lot of overly-stylized, "knowing" writing about the "scene".

[mikeycook]

He just didnt get it.

This is a problem with metropolitan newspapers focusing on consumerism and hiring clueless food critics. There are so many similarities between Gilt, Sketch in London and Gagnaire in Paris.

Bruni is simply way out of his league of food appreciation.

Cant wait till the three star review of del postos overpriced nothing new "I"-Talian food.

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Based on their initial aspirations, I think 3 stars would be considered a failure for the Del Posto folks (attempting to be the first 4-star Italian, weren't they?) Actually, they might get 2 as well (hard to believe it is even on par with Babbo).

Edited February 8, 2006 by mikeycook (log)