Ti Punch

[JAZ]

While no two rums are alike, I'm wondering if the La Favorite is fairly similar in general taste (I did read Ed's descriptions above) to the Neisson's.

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It's been a while since I tasted them side by side, but overall, they have a similar flavor profile. I preferred the white La Favorite slightly -- I think it was a little smoother -- but both are very good. They certainly both work well in a Ti punch.

[slkinsey]

slkinsey:  Have you tried Neisson's Rhum Agricole Blanc?  I picked up my bottle last night and only had time for a little sip.  It was very strong and firery (100 proof) and had an excellent powerful but smooth flavor.  I think a little similar to the white Cane rum from New Orleans Rum.

While no two rums are alike, I'm wondering if the La Favorite is fairly similar in general taste (I did read Ed's descriptions above) to the Neisson's.

I tried all of Ed's rhums in one night several months ago. For reasons you will understand, I don't have entirely clear memories of each one. There are differences, of course, but they both have that distinctive rhum agricole character, and both are 100 proof.

[Pan]

[...]French Guyana also produces rhum agricole but those rhums are considerably different from what is distilled further north.

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How so, Ed?

Also, what's the derivation of the name "Ti Punch"?

I was at Bistro 60 on Sunday and discussed my reactions to the Ti Punch in this post in my foodblog. I'm no big drinker, but I've had a lot of cocktails with rum over the years, and that rhum agricole sure is different and better, as far as I'm concerned. Though it has its uses, to my palate (for whatever it's worth), garden-variety rum is a rough spirit and the rhum agricole is a fine liqueur comparable to calvados, etc. I could imagine sipping pure rhum agricole on the rocks, though it's quite strong. And as far as Ti Punch is concerned, now that I've tried it, I'm an enthusiast.

[the queneau]

Also, what's the derivation of the name "Ti Punch"?

Quite simply, it translates as "Lil' Punch", punch as in a generic term for a rum-based drink. The "ti" is a créole diminutive of the French "petit" - a meta-diminutive, if ewe will.

Most of the talk here has been of rums from the western French DOM-TOMs (Martinique, Guadaloupe and French Guyane). Let's not forget wee La Réunion in the Indian Ocean which also produces a vast amount of amazing rhums agricoles and where wee Queneau had the pleasure of living for 3 years. Yum.

[Pan]

I envy you for having had the chance to live in La Reunion. The first summer I spent in Nice (1992), I went a few times to a classy La Reunion-style restaurant that served a unique and fantastic type of fusion cuisine.

Can you compare the taste of the rhums agricoles from La Reunion to those from the Caribbean?

[Ed Hamilton]

Thanks the queneau for the clarification on the translation of the name 'ti punch.' While it is certainly unfair for me to say that Guadeloupe or Martinique rhums are better than those from Reunion, the rhum agricole from the Caribbean is slightly more refined than that from Reunion. But the morale of the story is that people tend to drink what they are used to. I like to encourage people to expand their experience and palates by trying different spirits while looking for new flavors, aromas and characters. It is also important to note that distilled spirits, like wines, do change from year to year though usually not as dramatically as their lower alcohol cousins.

The people from Reunion are as attached to their rhums as those of the French Caribbean, just as there is a rivalry between Guadeloupe and Martinique. Cheers!

[elixirofthetropics]

Admin: threads merged.

I've heard often about Ti' Punch but have not seen a recipe for it. What goes in it besides rum or rhum agricole? I would like to try it sometime. Are there any rhum agricoles available in the DC, MD, or VA area? I've tried several stores (both general and high-end) in those areas except DC but haven't seen any.

[KOK]

I struck out trying to buy agricole in MD/DC/VA and ended up mail-ordering bottles of La Favorite blanc and Neisson's blanc from Sam's Wine in Chicago. You must have a D.C. mailing address (or a friend in DC) as they cannot ship to MD or VA. It was a little expensive but not outrageous.

Here is one recipe for Ti Punch.

Thanks,

Kevin

[VoodooDog]

Admin: threads merged.

OK.

I got the La Favorite blanc.

I got the newly availiable petite canne syrup. (very tasty btw)

I got limes. Both kinds.

I followed the recepie. I varied it. I tried it fast. I tried as the ice melted. I tried when ALL the ice melted.

It seems to always taste like industrial solvent. Or perhaps an engine de-greaser.

Is it me? Am I missing something? Is this a maturing palate kind of thing?

I've read most of Mr. Hamilton's reviews and found them to be spot on, until we get to Martinique that is. Then the wheels just fall completly off the wagon.

Am I alone here? Or do some of you have a similar experience?

Thanks,

-E

[slkinsey]

Hmm... Have you tried the Favorite in any other drinks? I think it makes a fine Daiquiri at 2 oz rum, 1/2 oz lime juice and 1/2 teaspoon of superfine sugar. I'm asking because it may simply be that you don't care for the flavor of rhum agricole.

Another thing you might do is try making a Ti Punch using a regular cuban-style white rum like Flor de Cana and see what that tastes like to you. Maybe you just don't like white rum this unadorned.

I think it's interesting that you would say that the Favorite tastes "industrial" and "solvent-like" to you, because my sense is that rhum agricole is actually more delicate and floral and far less "industrial tasting" than molasses-based rum.

[VoodooDog]

A diaquiri is one of the "variations" I tried. I'm rather fond of diaquiris. And since a ti punch is a near relative I was keen to give it a go. After all, it seems everybody thinks the world of it.

I have tried it with other whites. I've even tried it Wray and Nephew Overproof (which does make an excellent cleaner btw) and all I got was so-so somewhat harsh (as expected) drink.

It's clear the problem is the ruhm agricole.

I was just wondering if I was alone in missing the boat on what so many seem to enjoy. And of course WHY?

It wouldn't be the first time. I can't seem to choke down a hopped beer either. Never have. And I've tried. I've REALLY tried.

-E

Edited March 8, 2006 by VoodooDog (log)

[slkinsey]

Hmmm... Of all the liquors for which I think some work might be required to acquire a taste, rhum agricole would be very far down on the list. I can understand how someone has to "learn to like" something like aquavit or gin or grappa. Rhum agricole has always struck me as very approachable. But, as the saying goes, that's why they play the game. Different people/different palates/different sensitivities to different chemicals.

[ThinkingBartender]

Admin: threads merged.

Hi All,

Can anyone give me the lowdown on the Petit Punch (Ti Punch)?

Why no ice in the drink? or is that optional?

How much water, if any, goes into the drink?

Whats the history of the Petit Punch?

Does anyone have any authentic recipes?

Thanks in advance,

George

[Snowy is dead]

I've acquired this ?cane syrup?

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Lyle_s_Golden_Syrup_..._Review_5361082

not sure how it compares to Mr. Hamilton's syrop de canne. Is this a good sub, or is the best bet reducing sugar in the raw?

Also, the only rhum agricole availiable here is St. James (Massachusetts), and an aged version of that. The drink has way too much caramel flavor, and none of that cachaca/aloe viscocity I remember. Of course I was drunk, so who knows. Any tips?

[KOK]

The Lyle's syrup is much, much thicker than what Ed is selling. The Lyle's is more like pancake syrup. It is (IMHO) definitely worth it to order Ed's syrup, esp to make a Ti Punch.

Sam's Wine has a good selection of agricole and the price isn't too outrageous (if they ship to your state). I ordered a bottle of the Neisson white and the La Favorite white and both are good though I favor the Neisson.

Thanks,

Kevin

http://www.samswine.com/

[slkinsey]

Lyle's Golden Syrup is not what you want. Lyle's is a golden syrup, which is more or less just a superaturated sucrose simple syrup (partially inverted, which is why it doesn't crystallize). The main point is that it is fairly highly refined.

The kind of cane syrup you want* is made simply by reducing sugar cane juice. If you can't buy a bottle of cane syrup such as Petite Canne from Martinique, your best bet is to make a rich syrup using dehydrated sugar cane juice from a health food store.

* not the same kind as Steen's cane syrup.

[Ed Hamilton]

Admin: threads merged.

Hi All,

Can anyone give me the lowdown on the Petit Punch (Ti Punch)?

Why no ice in the drink? or is that optional?

How much water, if any, goes into the drink?

Whats the history of the Petit Punch?

Does anyone have any authentic recipes?

Thanks in advance,

George

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Ice is optional in the islands, because it used to be hard to get. Now it's no problem and a lot of people add ice. But if you add water, you're definitely crossed the line.

As the ice melts the drink blossoms. The spirit is 100 proof, or 110 proof in the French Islands, so a little ice isn't out of line.

The Petit Punch is the traditional drink of the French West Indies.

The recipe I use came straight from Martinique and has been accepted by a number of people from Martinique. Phil in Manhattan makes one of the best, though he's had the most practice.

A couple of key things to remember are don't get carried away with a big piece of lime or a lot of sugar. These are to complement the rhum, you're not making a caiparinha, where you want to cover the flavor of the spirit.

[eje]

[...]

These are to complement the rhum, you're not making a caiparinha, where you want to cover the flavor of the spirit.

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Ooooh! Them's fightin' words!

Uh, Ed, opinions differ on which spirit needs the most "cover".

Personally, I like them all, and am glad that obsessed folks like you and Mr. Cachaca_Dave are working to bring us what you think are the best examples.

Cheers!

[Cachaca_Dave]

[...]These are to complement the rhum, you're not making a caiparinha, where you want to cover the flavor of the spirit.

Dear Ed,

I do take offense your comment above and I ask that you kindly retract what you have written.

I have always thought of egullet as a place for open and constructive discussion, rather than broad and incorrect generalizations.

While it is true that there are many caipirinhas made with too much sugar; for caipirinhas made with Mae De Ouro I have always advocated a balance of lime and sugar and never to cover up the flavor of the alcohol.

-Cachaca Dave

[phlip]

Offensive? Ever heard of a caprianha? The most popular cachaca cocktail. If you dont think at least half a lime and a good dose of sugar mask the flavor of the cachaca.... well... hm. I think ed is spot on. The Ti punch is a beautiful drink made with a beautiful rhum which id be more than happy to drink straight out of the bottle which i just dont recall many of my customers doing with cachaca.

and about the voodoodogs dislike above i have found that some people do have an aversion to rhum agricoles. It is a strangeflaveor. Like sam said not so hard to aquire but still some folks just dont take to it.

also about the daquiri as a test cocktail. I like to make daquiris with the rhum agricole and the sugar cane syrup.

2 rhum

1/2 oz sugar cane syrup (eds)

3/4 fresh lime

its a lovely daquari varient Im sure ed remembers enjoying

[Cachaca_Dave]

Offensive? Ever heard of a caprianha? The most popular cachaca cocktail. If you dont think at least half a lime and a good dose of sugar mask the flavor of the cachaca.... well... hm. I think ed is spot on.

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First of all it is spelled caipirinha. Second of all it's still unfair to say all cachaca is bad if you have only tried 2 or 3 brands sold in the USA, the country produces over 5,000 brands. Please read the cachaca thread and that's why I'm here to debunk what people think about cachaca. Very happy to meet up with you to let you try Cachaca Mae De Ouo for yourself, it will suprise you. But this thread is about Ti Punch, let's all please keep the cachaca discussion to the cachaca thread.

[phlip]

first of all the spelling isnt nearly as important as the taste and second of all i read or more importantly said nowhere above that all cachaca is bad. you said that just for the record.

[eje]

Nice little write up about Rum, Pegu Club, and the Ti' Punch in today's NY Times, "Shaken and Stirred".

By the Rum's Early Light*, Jonathan Miles

The most thrilling chapter was reserved for ti' punch (for petit punch), a precursor of the daiquiri, imported from the French West Indies. A simple mixture of 100 proof Martinique rum, sugar cane syrup and lime, it mellows as the ingredients mingle in the glass, and it matures before your eyes.

If rum, as Mr. Curtis writes, "is the history of America in a glass," then ti' punch is an apt metaphor: brash and raffish around the edges, but blessed, as the flavors melting into one another reveal, with a heart gentle and beautiful.

Includes a recipe.

*Link requires registration, and will likely expire after a couple weeks.

Edited July 10, 2006 by eje (log)

[johnder]

I was at Pegu last night for a quick drink and they actually have Ti Punch on the menu now. I think they are still trying to figure out how to properly market it to people as I suspect some unknowing people are ordering this under the assumption it is a different drink than it really is and after taking their first sip decide they don't like it.

It really is a drink that you need to let sit and mellow, not sure the best way to tell that to someone when they order it.

[suseyblue]

Hi. Relatively unschooled newbie here, but I wanted to mention that I've been making variations on ti' ponch for decades & the Ten Cane I bought the last time I was in Florida is just fine, lovely in this heat. (I'll try the Flash punch later, since I have some ginger beer & lemon ice on hand & let y'all know how the Ten Cane works with that.)

I think this may be my first or second post after joining last year. This is the kind of place one likes to lurk for awhile before daring to post. So very much to digest! Anyway, hello, I'll try to be more erudite next time.

Susan B