Professional Culinarians for Hire!

[ChefSwartz]

This topic has been started to explore the possibilties of a newer restaurant concept. The concept includes the rotation of the front of the house with the back. The culinarians will work for 3 or 4 weeks at a position and then rotate to another area. The food will change with each move. The staffmembers will have the opportunity to wait tables and cook savory and sweet dishes, along with pastry.

I think this will give the restaurant an oppourtunity to explore the limits of its workers, instead of dealing with high-turnover. Being apart of so many places with bad enviroments, drug abuse and overall indifference, I am looking to start something different.

I think this will enable the entire staff to get paid more because we will divide the tipshare equally among the staff. The staff will also have an input on the conceptualization of new dishes as well as micro-managing themselves.

There will be innate leaders in the group and people that will assert their ideas. I am not worried about having a "boss" per say. The chefs will abide by a predetermined standard, and will be pushed and challenged by the enviroment.

Is their anyone who likes this idea? If you think this wont work, I would like to know why. What type of forseeable problems do you think will arise?

I know that MOTO in chicago is toying with this idea, and there is also a place in Ithica,NY called Moosewood that has been quite successful.

Edited May 11, 2005 by ChefSwartz (log)

[godito]

I read somewhere that Charly Trotter often has his staff working in various areas of his operation, and I think it's a great idea. When I was going to school at the CIA, we had three weeks in the back of the house of a restaurant and then three weeks in the front. I would love to work in such an environment if I wans't busy opening up my own place

However, it's my experience that you will not find many willing volunteers. Cooks just want to cook, otherwise they'd probably also be working the front... You'll have to spend a great deal of time traing them to sell and maybe to be... well... friendly (I know I know, we cooks are the friendliest bunch... and we could sell seabass as white salmon if we really wanted )

Good luck! let me know how it goes.

[ChefSwartz]

I have a feeling that the number of people would be somewhat limited, but as chefs are we not servers already? Hell we COOK for the customers right? Why wouldn't you want to see the diners reactions to the food. As a cook I absolutely hated not getting feedback from the waitstaff. It makes everyone feel better when the get their well-deserved praise, no? Yes, yes, we are humbled cooks, and that is what makes us great, but the reactions from pleased patrons is priceless and you dont get that from the back. ALL of the best chefs "run" food, what is the difference?

I get it, new train of thought is difficult for most. Hell getting people to try "new" things is like pulling teeth and ridding people of their childish phobia's is somewhat impossible. Whhhaaa i dont like pepper, onions, garlic, cheese, salsa, cilantro, fish, whatever, blah blah blah whaaaaa. I have a feeling though, if people would pay attention to themselves and open their minds... aw forget it, it is really amazing to me number of people who can even CONCEIVE change much less apply it.

I guess that is the industry not as a whole but as a large part, addicted. Addicted to drugs, laziness, and the easy way out. Heck thats why most of the people who are in it are here. It was easy. I mean, did we not learn in grade school that anything easy usually isn't worth while?

But look who's crying, now that your laziness has caught up with you. I've seen more unhappy cooks than I care to ever admit. And they all suffer from addiction. There is a way out, I have seen it and the light.

Put down the pot and the beer for a minute, and listen, please.

100 people have read this and only 1 has responded?

We cannot be afraid to stand up against our fears. You have to break the cycle somehow. I think everymind has the capacity to change.

As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, i will fear no evil.

The lord is my shepard, I shall not want.

I want to thank God for the abilities he has given me and the light he has shed on my life. Thank you so very much.

-Amen

[Misa]

I think it's a great concept.

But, to be honest, I wouldn't want to work there, because I don't enjoy working front of the house. I've done it before, and it really isn't for me.

[TheFoodTutor]

This topic has been started to explore the possibilties of a newer restaurant concept. The concept includes the rotation of the front of the house with the back. The culinarians will work for 3 or 4 weeks at a position and then rotate to another area. The food will change with each move. The staffmembers will have the opportunity to wait tables and cook savory and sweet dishes, along with pastry.

I'd jump on board. I'm a good line cook, and a good server, and can easily move back and forth between front and back of house.

However, moving the staff around that frequently, and making menu changes that often would be incredibly challenging, even for a dream team of really talented people. It sounds like a Herculean task to orchestrate. Not that I wouldn't be up for it. It's just that finding an entire team who'd all be on board would take a lot of doing.

Good luck.

[godito]

I agree with what you're saying, ChefSwartz, I also find it frustrating as a cook when I get no feedback, or when I know the servers had no idea on the igredients used in the dishes (once a server had no idea what cous cous was and told the costumer it was a type of mexican rice) and also, as a server I got to understand the hard work of being good at it. The big problem with mixing both is the training. You need cooks willing to be servers, unless you know servers that know how to cook and have experience, etc.

The problem, then, is that you also need servers with experience. Remember they are your salespelople. They need to know about what's being prepared and how to sell it. They also need to know wines (and wine pairing) and how to sell it. It's not easy and sort of intimidating. You need personality. Now, I believe there are people willing to work with you in your ambicious enterprise, but be sure to train them to do what you need them to do.

I wish you the best! And seriously, let me know how it goes. I would also like to show all the cooks how hard it's to sell well and the servers how hard is the kitchen work.... then get to a happy medium and erase that stupid imaginary line between the front and the back.... they're all part of the same team! Let them work together, not against each other!

[lala]

Interesting. Yes, we did this kind of thing at the CIA, and people definately preferred one side of the house to the other. You have to remember that cooking and waiting tables takes two somewhat different skill sets, and it's rare to find one person, let alone 20 who can do both equally well. And they'd have to, because if your waitstaff aren't selling (and they ARE salespeople, not just food delivery systems), you're going down the tubes fast.

Edited May 12, 2005 by lala (log)

[PassionateChefsDie]

Some off us should be kept behind the scenes!

PassionateChefsDie

[detlefchef]

Frankly, I find a number of fundamental flaws with this idea. To begin with, how would "everybody" make more money. There is only so much to go around, so if anyone made more than they typically do, it comes at the expense of someone else.

More importantly, I think you're leaving out one major set of volunteers... the customer. As hard as it may be to find people willing to buy into that program from a staffing standpoint, I'd think it harder still to find people willing to pony up to induldge your experiment.

The mechanic we go to has a guy on staff who specializes in VWs, so he's the one who works on my wife's Jetta. Needless to say, I'm glad that I don't show up to find that he and the receptionist have switched places for the week.

People are simply good at different things. I've worked pretty much every position in a restaurant during my career and could handle any if pressed to do so. That said, there are jobs that I just know I can find someone better than me to handle, and I'd like to give my customers the best experience, so I stick to what I'm good at.

Would an enormously talented pastry chef who just happens to be a bit neurotic and not much of a people person (hmm, I can think of a few), not be invited to join your crew? Certainly you don't want someone like that being the face of your restaurant, but, I for one, would have a hard time saying, "No thanks, your desserts are outstanding, but I'm looking for more of a waiter, bartender, sommelier, maitre 'd, broiler cook, saucier, dishwasher, pastry chef, accountant, handyman sort of person and you just don't fit the bill."

All that said, I fully encourage moving people around within reason and especially think managers should spend time in as many shoes as possible. I could even go so far as to have cooks spend a few shifts as runners and waiters spend a few shifts prepping, all in the name of better understanding. However, I just don't see why your idea is very sound.

Sorry.

Edited May 13, 2005 by detlefchef (log)

[chefdg]

I like this can of worms that you have opened b/c I have entertained opening it myself. And I have to think, why? Forgive if I am wrong but it seems as though you are very frustrated by the overall lack of motivation of cooks who really care about pleasing the guests, and the overall lack of motivation of the servers who really care about the food. Therefore, one really good way to remedy this would be to force them to work in their opposite roles, weeding through the dead weight that plagues our restaurants very quickly.

What it comes down to is character. At one of the restaurants I work, we listed the criteria for hiring people, and character was at the top of the list. Myself, and the owners felt that no matter how well a person could temper chocolate or make a hollaindaise fell second to their overall character.

Trust me, if you are serious about doing this, PM me and if I can make it happen I will tackle this task with you, because I believe it can be done.

One thought just occured to me, I was at an after hour employee party and one of the waitresses said to me and a few other "what have I done with my life, nothing" as she sighed, I'm sure if she had been a part of this type of restaurant she wouldn't have the same feelings about her lifes work.

[PassionateChefsDie]

One thought just occured to me, I was at an after hour employee party and one of the waitresses said to me and a few other "what have I done with my life, nothing" as she sighed, I'm sure if she had been a part of this type of restaurant she wouldn't have the same feelings about her lifes work.

←

I would say that is down to her, everyone in this trade FOH or in the Kitchen could say this, we work long hours have little social time and what little time we do have is normally spent with colleagues!

Me personally have done plenty I've spent 5 years in the top 10 percent in the country worked for a Sous chef of my hero, worked in the restaurant that inspired me, eaten in some off the best restaurants in the country, cooked for celebs. It comes down to proffesional attitude there is no such thing as a proffesional all rounder thats called a Jack of All trades master of none! Or a general manager.

It's down to attitude this waitress could of worked for the best restaurants, tasted wines she could never afforded, met people she never would of met, but she has to want to, what will an all rounder want to do, who will inspire them?

I would rather have a proffesional FOH that has good things to say about the trade as I would in the Kitchen, I do understand what you are saying. I'm guilty of telling a Restaurant manager that I'm more than a proffesional plate carrier, what happened to proffesional waiters? They dissapeared when Flambe, Silver Service, Gueridon work dissapeared, it's now been replaced with people just earning money.

In my experience there is now less proffesional front of house staff than there ever was, who do they admire? Who do they aspire to be, where do they wish to work, all rounders will never achieve this because you cant master it all just specialise.

From a chefs point I wrote a PM the other day and said I can only master the basics and for the rest of my career/life learn! There is too much to learn and such little time.

Remember most chefs can put a suit on and serve but not many waiters can put a jacket on and do service, the ones that can I admire and will bend over backwards for. They only have to know the basics the odd waiters saved my bacon by sending my first breakfast, these players create the team. But I dont expect them to know every term the chef knows or to have the knife skills of a chef(Though saying that I quite often use to get 1 waiter to take the sole off the bone for me when it was cooked, because he could do it better than I could(Back to proffesional waiters he use to do it in the restaurant in the old days!)).But as for the waiters that know best yet cant do a kitchen service these ones seem to be the problem, most don't even know how to silver service, most chefs can even if it's badly.

[ChefSwartz]

I would say that is down to her, everyone in this trade FOH or in the Kitchen could say this, we work long hours have little social time and what little time we do have is normally spent with colleagues! ...

It's down to attitude this waitress...

In my experience there is now less proffesional front of house staff than there ever was, ...

There is too much to learn and such little time.

←

Ahhh , I love contradiction, in fact i think your contradiction(s) prove my points.

My goal is to CLOSE the restaurant for 4 weeks out of the year. Vacation.

Plus involve some profit sharing methods.

The attitude ALWAYS comes down to the individual. "you can lead the horse..."

When a person becomes a chef and/or owner of a restaurant it is their role to do whatever it takes to fit the bill, no? As a chef/owner you are a politician working the room selling yourself and the food, your ideas and philosphies, no?

So, why, pray tell would you not want to train your staff to be chefs instead of fry cooks or sautees or suaciers? I mean as a cook, I mastered each station at each of my jobs in a matter of weeks. And there was NO room for advancement. Why in the world would I stay at garde manger for the next 2 years when I want to move to the line, or even to the back to learn pastry? I mean come on Im freaking bored here!!! Ahh but if we rotated the staff we could , get this... TEACH everyone the FUNDEMENTALS of cookery and chefdom as a whole.

The processes and technique dont change from city to city. Especially with the internet. Ingredient quality and efficency are the true ciphers of a great restaurant.

I am not a fool who thinks I know everything, hell I know how to cook, but even I can get better. Reading and discovering new flavors and techniques while making people happy is where the fun comes in! But the whole idea is to realize the POTENTIAL of ALL the people involved, and raise the morale and attitude to a new level.

DETLEFCHEF,

if the tipshare were divided equally among the staff, we pay the entire staff roughly 6 bucks an hour more on top of their adjusted salry and the enitre staff walks home with roughly , well, you do the math. the variance is with employment percentage costs. in my case it will be roughly 40% because i want health benefits as well.

the salary of the staff will be directly proportionate to the amount of business we do, the quality of food and service. the cooks salary will be directly affected by their preformance.

but the food and service will be nothing short of brilliant because of the attiude of the staff.

We will grow and learn, perfect technique, and abide by calculated standards and I have a feeling it will be grand...

It will come down to hiring the right people, duh! I mean if 1 out of a 1000 people buy into the system, who cares, all i need is 20 or so and there is definetly more than 20,000 people in this industry looking for a change.

The overall attitude of the industry is piss POOR!!

I have worked for the big boys and the like, TRU in chicago to be specific and it is ridiculous! I got to work on sat a a little after noon and got out at 3 am are you kiddin me!!!! these guys dedicate there lives and time just so they can get an opportunity somewhere else. or finally make it big. Plus, there is little if no time off and when you do get it there is an overwhelming guilt trip put on you when you do.

I guess by your rebuttles that your are pleased with the current state of the industry and feel that no change is necessary. I hardly feel this is this case after working in over 20 restaurants in the past 10 years.

The morale is low, people try and cope with substance, its really sad, everyone seems depressed. there is a manic elation that follows that is misconstrued as hapiness...

It come down to my personal philosophy, I think most people have the potential to do whatever they want. I am not going to put anyone in a box or try to define them as a person. We all have the capacity to do what we WANT to do. And that is it. As a chef one has to realize that, and my goal is to train the new chefs of the future, and I get to decide how they will be.

Please I want more feedback

thanks

Edited May 13, 2005 by ChefSwartz (log)

[PassionateChefsDie]

I would say that is down to her, everyone in this trade FOH or in the Kitchen could say this, we work long hours have little social time and what little time we do have is normally spent with colleagues! ...

It's down to attitude this waitress...

In my experience there is now less proffesional front of house staff than there ever was, ...

There is too much to learn and such little time.

←

Ahhh , I love contradiction, in fact i think your contradiction(s) prove my points.

My goal is to CLOSE the restaurant for 4 weeks out of the year. Vacation.

Plus involve some profit sharing methods.

The attitude ALWAYS comes down to the individual. "you can lead the horse..."

When a person becomes a chef and/or owner of a restaurant it is their role to do whatever it takes to fit the bill, no? As a chef/owner you are a politician working the room selling yourself and the food, your ideas and philosphies, no?

So, why, pray tell would you not want to train your staff to be chefs instead of fry cooks or sautees or suaciers? I mean as a cook, I mastered each station at each of my jobs in a matter of weeks. And there was NO room for advancement. Why in the world would I stay at garde manger for the next 2 years when I want to move to the line, or even to the back to learn pastry? I mean come on Im freaking bored here!!! Ahh but if we rotated the staff we could , get this... TEACH everyone the FUNDEMENTALS of cookery and chefdom as a whole.

The processes and technique dont change from city to city. Especially with the internet. Ingredient quality and efficency are the true ciphers of a great restaurant.

I am not a fool who thinks I know everything, hell I know how to cook, but even I can get better. Reading and discovering new flavors and techniques while making people happy is where the fun comes in! But the whole idea is to realize the POTENTIAL of ALL the people involved, and raise the morale and attitude to a new level.

DETLEFCHEF,

if the tipshare were divided equally among the staff, we pay the entire staff roughly 6 bucks an hour more on top of their adjusted salry and the enitre staff walks home with roughly , well, you do the math. the variance is with employment percentage costs. in my case it will be roughly 40% because i want health benefits as well.

but the food and service will be nothing short of brilliant because of the attiude of the staff.

We will grow and learn, perfect technique, and abide by calculated standards and I have a feeling it will be grand...

It will come down to hiring the right people, duh! I mean if 1 out of a 1000 people buy into the system, who cares, all i need is 20 or so and there is definetly more than 20,000 people in this industry looking for a change.

The overall attitude of the industry is piss POOR!!

I have worked for the big boys and the like, TRU in chicago to be specific and it is ridiculous! I got to work on sat a a little after noon and got out at 3 am are you kiddin me!!!! these guys dedicate there lives and time just so they can get an opportunity somewhere else. or finally make it big. Plus, there is little if no time off and when you do get it there is an overwhelming guilt trip put on you when you do.

I guess by your rebuttles that your are pleased with the current state of the industry and feel that no change is necessary. I hardly feel this is this case after working in over 20 restaurants in the past 10 years.

The morale is low, people try and cope with substance, its really sad, everyone seems depressed. there is a manic elation that follows that is misconstrued as hapiness...

It come down to my personal philosophy, I think most people have the potential to do whatever they want. I am not going to put anyone in a box or try to define them as a person. We all have the capacity to do what we WANT to do. And that is it. As a chef one has to realize that, and my goal is to train the new chefs of the future, and I get to decide how they will be.

Please I want more feedback

thanks

←

We can all quote out of context

[PassionateChefsDie]

Boredeom is sitting there plucking 60 ducks if you want or its a pleasure of the job I want someone that finds it a pleasure not a tedious task! First they will do a better job if for no other reason pride, secondly it will be done right!

But they wont be the type of person bored in a month! Looking for a new job in 6 months.

I worked with to many cv chefs who've worked here and there yet never understood what they where doing, just recipe followers there's a million housewives doing that everyday.

Edited to add:

No I cant say I am happy with the trade, but until the consumer is willing to pay the extra money and stops comparing us to the supermarket each time they dip into there pocket to pay the bill! We have no chance of putting the right amount of staff into an establishment to make money it will be under staffed.

For when a main course costs £10 all the customer thinks is if I went to the supermarket that will cost £3 it's the customers we need to change to get them to dig a bit deeper if they want to eat out.

As proffesionals we stop cutting corners and make more work for ourselves by trying to better things that we can buy in, is this wrong no! But we can certainly make it easier on ourselves, by buying it in at a worse standard and a cheaper price.

Edited May 13, 2005 by PassionateChefsDie (log)

[ChefSwartz]

I think that for the most part your post is off the topic.

however, deriving deep satisfation from the mundane responsibilties is a part of growing up and maturing. keller said that. its not about that however. those jobs will still be apart of it. its about the expansion of the mind into the unknown.

once you do something repetitively it becomes second nature and you dont even think about it. thats why I can do some activities with my eyes closed. however i am trying to rid the enviroment of that complacent attitude. keep everyone on their feet.

"put yourself in a place where you are uncomfortable, that is when you really learn"

[PassionateChefsDie]

I think that for the most part your post is off the topic.

however, deriving deep satisfation from the mundane responsibilties is a part of growing up and maturing. keller said that. its not about that however. those jobs will still be apart of it. its about the expansion of the mind into the unknown.

once you do something repetitively it becomes second nature and you dont even think about it. thats why I can do some activities with my eyes closed. however i am trying to rid the enviroment of that complacent attitude. keep everyone on their feet.

"put yourself in a place where you are uncomfortable, that is when you really learn"

←

But a proffesional wont be complacent its there love not a chore its how you peel a carrot not whether you do it! I was highlighting that there is 2 different proffesionals One Front of House Two behind the scenes what both derive satisfaction from will be completly different. To then swap will lose the proffesionalism, most of the proffesional waiters I've worked with could of cooked and kicked most of the commis into touch after 30 years in the game and a classic training. Which involed cooking which it doesn't any more.

But there love is front of house there passion is working the difficult customer into leaving with a smile. They didn't care for the differences in cuisine just like I dont care whether they can do this with that napkin. I say bring back proper waiters, not a blended all rounder.

[Genny]

I think this has been an interesting discussion. I'm 'a housewife' not a professional cook and for full disclosure purposes the only restaurant work I've done is pushing pizzas in high school.

That said...

ChefSwartz, I think the idea is an interesting one which may have some merit. I think this is not a question of Professionalism or Chefdom but one of Management. If all your staff is qualified for BOH, then you would need to make sure they all have the temperment &/or training to do FOH.

My husband has been in management for 20 years. He has mostly run manufacturing facilities which, like a restraunt, is made up of different skill components. There is the warehousing, part assembly, machine set-up, and technical positions. His most successful endeavor included a "job switching" element. Each person on the team was made Manager for a couple weeks at a time. The group became self-regulating and mostly autonomous. No running to the boss to bitch about someone not doing their job right. They each learned that it was a difficult thing to be responsible for everyone else (as every boss is!) and also that if they didn't pull their weight, the others gave it right back to him when it was his turn!

In the restaurant environment I think you could certainly rotate duties, making each person Chef for a duration, as long as everyone had the appropriate skills.

I do have a question and I hope it isn't too far off topic: Does BOH respect the professionals in FOH as having their own unique skill set or are waiters/hosts expendable? I imagine this depends on the type of restaurant but I think I'm asking this regarding the more shi-shi restaurants. Basically, if you are not a chef/cook does this make you less valuable in the current environment? I enjoy a nice restaurant and really appreciate a skilled server and find this is actually quite difficult to find.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

[PassionateChefsDie]

I think that now adays there is alot less respect for the FOH as I mentioned earlier as we have now de-skilled waiting to not a lot more than Plate carrying! Remember normally in a restaurant only one person takes orders. The job is picked up by school leavers and uni graduates trying to pay there way rather than long term proffesionals who are trying to make a career out of it.

It's an even more thankless task than BOH but remember any one can take a plate out to a restaurant, I hope we go back to a more classic training for waiters rather than having to rely on imports from France etc where the training is better, otherwise it seems to be management that have the classic waiting skills.

It certainly doesn't make you any better/worse than BOH but harder to find true proffesionals with the same integrity as the BOH who will be doing it for the rest off there lives.

I personally value FOH but thats probably because I cant do it for more than a day by then my teeth have nearly cut my tongue into two. Also they're are the flak jacket for the kitchen recieving the abuse for the BOH's mistakes, there is a divide yet we are trying to achieve a whole.

As a chef I'm the first to step in if I see any chef giving FOH staff crap I do value the job they do as it has to be the most thankless job in the world, never to be seen but always there when you need them, but it has become de-skilled with out a doubt.

[ChefSwartz]

Henri Soule' the pioneer of French Dining in America, the mozart and michelangelo of tablewaiting Early 1900's. Le Pavillion was the best in the US and the standards of elegant servitude were being defined.

He said that the problem with waitstaffing is exactly this.

The job is picked up by school leavers and uni graduates trying to pay there way rather than long term proffesionals who are trying to make a career out of it.

←

And it will remain so until a change is made. there are selected few "career" waiters, but it is so thankless that few venture down that path. I think the possibilty of reversing this is impossible. The industry is riddle with PT's with "short-timers diesease" and they are looking on the next best thing.

my point is, this problem has riddled restaurants for the last century and its not getting any bettter. change is eminent.

It is said that in this world EVERYONE is replaceable. no matter who it is. however there is a tendency towards chaos when the proper amount of energy is not being inputed. having said that losing any piece of the puzzle, FOH or BOH has the potential to cause problems. but i feel like this is the reason why it should be changed, there is no continuity, currently, even in the so called "best" restaurants in the country.

Edited May 13, 2005 by ChefSwartz (log)

[PassionateChefsDie]

Henri Soule' the pioneer of French Dining in America, the mozart and michelangelo of tablewaiting Early 1900's. Le Pavillion was the best in the US and the standards of elegant servitude were being defined.

He said that the problem with waitstaffing is exactly this.

The job is picked up by school leavers and uni graduates trying to pay there way rather than long term proffesionals who are trying to make a career out of it.

←

And it will remain so until a change is made. there are selected few "career" waiters, but it is so thankless that few venture down that path. I think the possibilty of reversing this is impossible. The industry is riddle with PT's with "short-timers diesease" and they are looking on the next best thing.

my point is, this problem has riddled restaurants for the last century and its not getting any bettter. change is eminent.

It is said that in this world EVERYONE is replaceable. no matter who it is. however there is a tendency towards chaos when the proper amount of energy is not being inputed. having said that losing any piece of the puzzle, FOH or BOH has the potential to cause problems. but i feel like this is the reason why it should be changed, there is no continuity, currently, even in the so called "best" restaurants in the country.

←

I would dis-agree the best front of house and the best back of house move between the best restaurants for example follow Think its ledbury thread in UK all are mentioning the Lovely Helena Hell. I think she seems to be one of the best and certainly from the thread is well liked and an addition to the new venture that will make people go, because they have met her before in quality establishments.

This isn't even a proffesional veiw these people seem to be writers and just good food lovers.

If you go in with the attitude that every one is replaceable then you will never establish loyalty from your staff, every great chef has a strong sous who has helped them through there career, look at TRU how long has he had his pastry chef?

It riddles places that pay peanuts and get monkeys with the european market close by I do believe that we may be better placed to find more proffesionals than in America. But I also believe that the best staff from both sides are still moving from good establishment to good establishment on either side of the atlantic.

[ChefSwartz]

Perhaps 4-5 weeks would be better?

[larousse]

I don't understand what would improve if their was rotaion.

Why change something that works as to the foh, boh switch. I'm a good cook, someone else is a good waiter. Specialization is a hugely successful economic prinicple utilized in restaurants. The people good at one area succeed in that area. Why mess with that? How come trained pediatricians don't switch with the orthopedic surgeons? Thats a streach but it illustrates my point.

QUOTE: "...once you do something repetitively it becomes second nature and you dont even think about it. thats why I can do some activities with my eyes closed. however i am trying to rid the enviroment of that complacent attitude. keep everyone on their feet."

I used to play baseball. Second base to be exact. Ground balls became routine to the point where I didn't have to think about it, I just performed. I could watch the guy on third base to see if he was going to try to run home while I was fielding the ball. A catcher or outfielder might have to concentrate soley on fielding the ball. Who would you rather have on second base if you were the manager? It's not neccesarily complacency but just operating on a higher level. The best part about cooking is that there's always a higher level.

Maybe think about changing the parts of the industry that really suck. 14 hour days, no vacation, working on holidays, getting paid less that unskilled FOH guys and dolls making the coffee. Tip out the back, reduce open hours or get a prep crew, set up restaurant parties so that the FOH and BOH house can meet, unwilnd and interact(and probably talk shop) together w/o being under stress or whatever just do what you can to make it a team.

And if all else fails: what the hell? It'd be a fun experiment.

[patty]

ChefSwartz,

I agree your concept is interesting, and keeping open awareness by changing positions would keep your staff on its toes. However, by nature, human beings are reluctant to accept change, they prefer to stick to routine. Also, your end consumer, the customer, will suffer from this practice.

I have a small spice company in partnership with my husband and we import bulk spices. One segment of our staff takes these bulk spices, grinds them, sifts them and then mixes them according to old family recipes into seasonings. The other portion of our staff attends to our customers on the floor, and extends extensive cooking advice. All of our staff are mostly culinary graduates or students of Kendall or CHIC. Even though they have attended the same institutions, the guys gravitate to our "back of the house" grinding, blending positions while the ladies are happier on the floor, chatting it up with the customers and serving in as ambassadors.

My partner/husband feels strongly, as you seem to, that it is wise to rotate jobs, because, everyone should be able to do every position, especially in a small family business. (we have HUGE fights about this at least once a month) In theory, I understand why this is desirable.

In reality, while a lofty pursuit, it simply just does not work As the CEO, you just need to appoint the Right people to the right jobs. And people like what they know they are good at, they do not want to go from a job where they excel, to a job they are afraid of. I have had numerous dinners at culinary school dining rooms where there are 40 year old guys (attending culinary school because in their mid life they wanted to change occupations) serving plates with their hands shaking so badly they could barely deliver the entree.

I do entertain the notion, that in a certain select environment, this mix-it -up concept might win keep your staff fresh and avoid stagnation.

My husband/partner and I both look forward to the results of your experimentation, should it go to that level. (I have a good bookie in Vegas)!

[patty]

Henri Soule' the pioneer of French Dining in America, the mozart and michelangelo of tablewaiting Early 1900's. Le Pavillion was the best in the US and the standards of elegant servitude were being defined.

He said that the problem with waitstaffing is exactly this.

The job is picked up by school leavers and uni graduates trying to pay there way rather than long term proffesionals who are trying to make a career out of it.

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And it will remain so until a change is made. there are selected few "career" waiters, but it is so thankless that few venture down that path. I think the possibilty of reversing this is impossible. The industry is riddle with PT's with "short-timers diesease" and they are looking on the next best thing.

my point is, this problem has riddled restaurants for the last century and its not getting any bettter. change is eminent.

It is said that in this world EVERYONE is replaceable. no matter who it is. however there is a tendency towards chaos when the proper amount of energy is not being inputed. having said that losing any piece of the puzzle, FOH or BOH has the potential to cause problems. but i feel like this is the reason why it should be changed, there is no continuity, currently, even in the so called "best" restaurants in the country.

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I would dis-agree the best front of house and the best back of house move between the best restaurants for example follow Think its ledbury thread in UK all are mentioning the Lovely Helena Hell. I think she seems to be one of the best and certainly from the thread is well liked and an addition to the new venture that will make people go, because they have met her before in quality establishments.

This isn't even a proffesional veiw these people seem to be writers and just good food lovers.

If you go in with the attitude that every one is replaceable then you will never establish loyalty from your staff, every great chef has a strong sous who has helped them through there career, look at TRU how long has he had his pastry chef?

It riddles places that pay peanuts and get monkeys with the european market close by I do believe that we may be better placed to find more proffesionals than in America. But I also believe that the best staff from both sides are still moving from good establishment to good establishment on either side of the atlantic.

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The pastry chef at Tru, Gale Gand, is an equal partner with the chef in the enterprise, so not sure this would be a good example of employee loyalty!

[PassionateChefsDie]

She married him and has been with him for over 9 years from what I've read, various chefs have had strong sous that they take with them that was my highlight I could use UK chefs for ref. I'm sure Keller's probably got a sous that he relies on and has done for a few years.

Edited

The partnership is over 16 years old

Edited May 14, 2005 by PassionateChefsDie (log)