Buddakan vs. Fork on a Saturday

[jmbrightman]

this Saturday, we must choose between Fork and Buddakan. I haven't been to either. I know Fork is less $, but it is an occasion, so cost is not a factor. any thoughts?

Edited March 9, 2005 by jmbrightman (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

My two cents? I hated Buddakan. I thought the food was only okay, and that the service was downright insulting to anyone who isn't a big wheel or that big wheel's supermodel girlfriend. I wouldn't go back there if I could avoid it.

On the other hand, I've never eaten at Fork. But still... I'd go there.

Edited March 9, 2005 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[Capaneus]

this Saturday, we must choose between Fork and Buddakan.  I haven't been to either.  I know Fork is less $, but it is an occasion, so cost is not a factor.  any thoughts?

←

Depends on your taste: Buddakan has a good deal more wow-factor going on, and the food *is* very good, though also overpriced; it's also loud, garrish (to my taste) and too full of itself. Fork is a cute space, intimate, quieter; their food, while very good, is definitely less polished, and that will come through mostly on presentation. Service at Budakan can alternate between smarmy arrogance and phoney chumminess, whereas Fork's folk seem genuinely pleasant, although if it is a very crowded Saturday they may be rushed.

All things considered, I prefer Fork. The deciding factor for me is the very well thought-out wine list, but in general my tastes run much more to their sort of unpretentious hominess.

[shacke]

Of all the Starr restaurants, I like Buddakan each time I go. Yes it is noisy and a tad high on itself as all his places are heavy on kitsch and flash but the food is always good and if you haven't gone - try it. Been there about 5-6 times. Service has always been friendly for us. I am sorry to here of Andrew's poor experience there. There is a plan for buddakan NYC and AC so that should tell you how successful it has been of all his places. I go for the grub and not the atmosphere. With two little kids I need to go to a noisy trendy spot like I need a hole in the head.

I have been to Fork a couple of times as well and it is very good. Different style for sure. No flash. Less costly but not cheap. In fact I will be there next week for the book-cook dinner and can't wait.

Can't go wrong with either but my vote is Buddakan given the choice. Heck, go to the other another time so it's a win-win sitch!

let us know how it goes....

evan

[philadining]

It's been a couple of years since I went to either, but I'd had different experiences.

At Buddakan, once I did get shunted off to a rather out of the way table in a fairly empty restaurant, and I couldn't help wondering if we weren't cool enough for the good seats.... but then service was perfectly friendly. On another visit we ended up front and center, and again, with very charming service. And I must regretfully admit to not being a high roller, or running with supermodels, or regularly wearing very nice shoes. The food on both visits was overall pretty interesting, and most of it was quite good. I especially liked the "Eel Dice," the 5-Spice Duck, the Wasabi-Crusted Filet Mignon, and the Dip Sum Donuts. We had a couple of fish specials on my second visit that were very good, but sadly the details faded from memory before I made any notes.

Every time I've been to Fork, I've been satisfied, but never thrilled. The food was always good, but never made me want to hurry back. Solid, reliable, fine.

Again, it's been some time since my visits, so the vibe and or food could have changed at both of them. Fork will serve you a good meal, but I think Buddakan could be more exciting. You won't get snotty attitude at Fork. It' possible that you could at Buddakan, but I didn't.

[jmbrightman]

my concern about Buddakan is, it seems it is more about the overall concept than the food. maybe it is a better place to visit midweek? I fear getting pegged as a geek and seated next to kitchen doors.

Edited March 9, 2005 by jmbrightman (log)

[KatieLoeb]

it seems it is more about the overall concept than the food.

A very succinct summary of the majority of the Starr establishments.

[Rich Pawlak]

Without hesitation, go to Fork.

Very romantic, real food, lovingly prepared, a great wine selection, handsome, welcoming bar, great tables, relaxed, friendly vibe.

Buddakhan is just a lot of noise and very average food at best.

[stephenc]

If only 2 people, I'd go to Fork.

More than 2, go to Buddhakan

[Andrew Fenton]

I fear getting pegged as a geek and seated next to kitchen doors.

This is exactly what happened to me. (Well, it was the bathroom doors.) I suppose I could have bribed the maitre d' to get a decent table. But the whole point of living in Philadelphia is that you don't have to bother with that kind of nonsense.

I actually disagree slightly with the concept vs. food description of Starr restaurants. Certainly Buddakan is probably at the top of the heap in that regard. They show just how hard it is to do fusion well: my experience was that the Asian dishes (Singapore noodles, dumplings) were not nearly as good as what you'd get at a good restaurant in Chinatown. And the genuine fusion dishes were generally disappointing: ponzu chicken with brown butter, for example, was a greasy mess. (But I did like the eel dice.)

On the other hand, some of the other Starr restaurants are pretty good. I liked Blue Angel. And Tangerine has excellent food. It's expensive, maybe too expensive, but it's good; maybe because Moroccan fusion is easier to pull off.

[phungi]

Funny you should mention that... Last time I went to Buddakan (party of 2), we were seated upstairs all the way in the back by the office door. Our table was next to the bar, and the rather large crowd of people waiting to sit down were encroaching on us. We had a $150 gift certificate and I ended up paying about $30 out of pocket (for 3-4 drinks, 2 apps, 1 entree, 1 special entree, 1 dessert, 2 coffees).

I love Fork: the food is great, the atmosphere is great, and the cost is palatable.

[KatieLoeb]

I fear getting pegged as a geek and seated next to kitchen doors.

This is exactly what happened to me. (Well, it was the bathroom doors.) I suppose I could have bribed the maitre d' to get a decent table. But the whole point of living in Philadelphia is that you don't have to bother with that kind of nonsense.

I actually disagree slightly with the concept vs. food description of Starr restaurants. Certainly Buddakan is probably at the top of the heap in that regard. They show just how hard it is to do fusion well: my experience was that the Asian dishes (Singapore noodles, dumplings) were not nearly as good as what you'd get at a good restaurant in Chinatown. And the genuine fusion dishes were generally disappointing: ponzu chicken with brown butter, for example, was a greasy mess. (But I did like the eel dice.)

On the other hand, some of the other Starr restaurants are pretty good. I liked Blue Angel. And Tangerine has excellent food. It's expensive, maybe too expensive, but it's good; maybe because Moroccan fusion is easier to pull off.

←

Andrew:

This is precisely what I was talking about. Buddakan is three times the cost and one third as good a meal as almost any Chinese restaurant 6 blocks away in Chinatown. And at those prices I hardly expect the same 2 or 3 greasy gloppy sauces on every dish. Plus the place is a meat market, which is a vibe I really don't like mixing with a pleasant meal. It's loud as hell, it's crowded as hell and I'm sorry, but just because Buddhists are generally a peaceful non-confrontational group of people doesn't give someone the right to appropriate their religious icon and turn it into DECOR. It's just offensive. What's next? Jesuskan with a giant bleeding crucified man in the center of the dining room? Let's see how that goes over...

I agree that the food at Tangerine is excellent - as is the wine service. Now there's a place in the Starr Resto Group that combines the theme park ambiance with a kitchen that can back it up. I also enjoyed the long lamented Blue Angel. I haven't had the pleasure of dining at Angelina's yet, but have heard good reports. Overall though, it's definitely about the concept and not the food, and at exhorbitant prices to boot.

[philadining]

I'm just as suspicious and skeptical as the next guy, and so my radar gets jacked-up to high sensitivity when it seems like a restaurant might be more interested in who's in the seats than what's on the plates.

Maybe I've fallen somehow into a Starr reality distortion field, or maybe I'm leading a charmed life, but I keep getting good, interesting food at most of his places. I won't claim that everything is a home run, (but I've never found any restaurant that was perfect every time I went.) I feel pretty confident that I actually enjoyed what I was eating, and I don't think any colored lights or fruity cocktails, or plasma screens are going to make the food taste better.

Nobody ever seems to suspect that there's no talent in the kitchen if bazillions of dollars are spent on conservative decor, but if it's modern or weird, somehow doubt is cast on the chef.

Sure, El Vez is 5 times more expensive than Plaza Garibaldi, but I haven't found any duck tacos with dried cherries down on Washington Avenue. Yeah, there are better bargains in Chinatown than Buddakan offers, but I haven't found a place there for Duck Breast with Five-Spice Jus accompanied by Corn and Scallion Spoonbread for any price. Cedars is way cheaper than Tangerine, but I didn't see any Octopus salad there. Point me toward a cheaper yellowtail "Buri Bop" like Morimoto makes, and I'm there.

I guess I've gotten lucky in avoiding most of the service annoyances that have been mentioned. Yes, it sucks to sit in the back corner, but somebody has to get that table if the place is crowded, sometimes it's just bad timing. I get crappy tables in chinatown all the time, but I'm fairly confident that it's not because I'm not cool enough, it's usually because the place is hopping.

Of course, if you were treated badly, or served bad food, or just felt cheated, by all means, don't go back, I wouldn't. And please, fire away on these forums, I'd like to hear about it. Everybody's tastes and sense of value is going to be a bit different, so I'm not arguing that the people who hated Buddakan, or wherever, are wrong, I'm just saying that my experiences have been better.

And I'm not being sarcastic, maybe I have just gotten lucky....

[jmbrightman]

I just cancelled our Buddakan res, thank you all very much. Saturday we are out and about without the little ones, staying over at the Sofitel and we plan to...stop at Miel Patisserie and pick up pastries for a late night snack - go to Morimoto and have the rock shrimp, some sushi and a carafe of chilled sake at the upstairs bar, head to Fork for dinner, wander Old City, maybe stop at Le Bar at LBF for a late bite...

[MarketStEl]

Oh, well. I got here a bit too late, and besides, the majority sentiment on this thread is that you'd be paying for the theatrics, not the food, at Buddakan. But here goes anyway.

I haven't been to Fork yet, so can't compare the two. But I wasn't disappointed with what I got at Buddakan this past Sunday night.

The place was packed, and noisy, and busy, and our party of three got seated upstairs, near the stairs to the main floor. The upstairs balcony is not really well situated for viewing the show on the main floor, but that's okay. Being with a name-dropping good friend of mine didn't improve our location; I know that the celebrity factor (we lacked it) worked against us; can't say if the black/white ratio factor (two black males, one middle-aged, the other youngish-looking; one older white guy) made any difference.

I thought the portions were fairly ample for the prices they charged. I'm used to seeing spectacularly plated but dainty servings at places with high-wow-factor decor and entree prices that start around $22 such as this one. But, our very competent waitress informed us, the service was family style, and the portions were what I would call the fancy-restaurant approximation of family size too. I ended up squeezing two days' worth of lunch out of the calamari salad and Asian barbecued pork I ordered. And those were the biggest onion rings I've ever seen anywhere. One of them was enough for me, but they served three. The breading wasn't that crisp, though.

Maybe it was what I ordered, but I didn't think that the wasabi sauce on the pork slices was all that gloppy. It wasn't all that fiery, either, but then again, what most of the world calls "spicy" I call just getting warmed up.

I don't know that I'd run back there to eat anytime soon, but as with my meal at Pod a couple of years back--courtesy the same name-dropping friend--I enjoyed the overall experience, which I would say is greater than the sum of its parts.

[phungi]

so, how was fork? gustatory minds want to know!

[jmbrightman]

we had a good meal at Fork. I had the hangar steak (perfectly medium rare) and it was delicious. my sides (yucca fries and some unremarkable vegetable) were ice cold, and had to be sent back. The place was so crowded there was no standing room at the bar. I would return, but not on a Saturday night.

[CMN]

Finally ate at Buddakan last night (we had a gift certificate and of the Starr restaurants we haven't gone to, this is the one the S.O. chose). It was "OK", but I left rather disappointed.

First, the ambience was sub-par. I have a problem with paper-wrapped chopsticks in a place that charges what they do. It's like putting out plastic forks, IMHO. The service, while attentive, was a bit rushed. We were out of there in about an hour (drinks, appetizers, entrees, dessert/coffee). The waitress we had was also not-so-well versed. She had trouble remembering the specials (despite checking her notepad), and failed to remember what was no longer available.

We had the shrimp spring rolls and edamame ravioli for the appetizers. The shrimp spring roll came with two sauces for dipping, and pickled cucumbers as a garnish/accent. They were acceptable (though not memorable), but as others have mentioned, you could get a better (and cheaper) version in Chinatown. The edamame ravioli were garnished with onions and more edamame. The pasta seemed a touch thick, and the filling rather bland. The onions didn't match the dish at all.

We had the miso-glazed black cod and the aged beef for the entrees.

The cod came with wasabi mashed potatoes (wasabi overload--I think there was wasabi in some form or another on all our dishes...except for dessert) and the same shredded carrots/daikon blend that came with the spring rolls. I really enjoyed the first bite of fish--moist and flavorful, but unfortunately, the rest of the fish was swimming in an overly salty sauce. I enjoyed the beef dish--very flavorful. It came with fried mound of potatoes with a sauce drizzled over it, sitting over plain watercress (which absorbed the sauce from the beef nicely).

For dessert, we split the chocolate pagoda (?). Basically a chocolate-hazelnut ice cream sandwich topped with a triangle of chocolate mousse, chocolate sauce, and crushed toasted hazelnuts. Generous portion and more than enough for two. I would say it was the best part of the meal (but I have a severe sweet tooth!).

Overall, I wouldn't "not" go back to Buddakan if someone else chose it, but it certainly wouldn't be on my list of places to go.

[webhill]

Big Sigh.

I like Buddakan, but hardly ever get to go. The last time I went was some time last winter, before the baby was born so maybe in December or January, with (this is so embarrassing) the rest of the classroom moms from my son's preschool class. I'm sure we were the Table From Hell, 8 or 9 women blabbing about their kids. As usual, I enjoyed the food. We were seated at a decent table (I haven't had the "shoved to the side" experience there yet) and shared everything around and I wouldn't call anything "bad" although certainly not everything was necessarily "OMGTHEBEST!!!1!" either. I guess I've been there five or six times and never had a "bad" meal. I would certainly go back any time, if I could get over the mommy-guilt :)

Fork I have only been to twice. One of the times I was there we were kept waiting a terribly long time before being seated, finally, much later than promised, but then the meal was great and the service was fine. The other time, the service itself sucked which is one of my HUGE restaurant peeves.

I also love Tangerine. The first time I was there, they had some kind of MAJOR timing problem in the kitchen and our food was so delayed, well - for a while we thought maybe they were bringing it in from Morocco. To make it up to us, they gave us a huge platter of desserts, including some of everything. THAT was fabulous, and much appreciated. The next time I went there was for some kind of party of some kind, I don't remember exactly, it was a while ago, but I had two kids with me and *shudder* that was not my best restaurant experience. Not that the kids weren't well behaved, but the level of effort required to ensure that they were behaving, and eating, and not an embarrassment to me or anyone else, just kind of sucked the life out of the rest of the experience for me.

Now I have to figure out where to go this Thursday, early (home for bedtime!), where I won't be out of place if I dress up a little bit (I have a new skirt!) and they won't hate me for bringing my 5 month old. Hmmm.

[shacke]

Buddakan gets mixed comments but each time I go I come away happy. I went there yesterday for my 10th anniversary and we decided it was a good place to bring the kids for there first "real" restaurant experience. It was a big success. When someone came over to say how good the kids are at the table, I got all proud and squishy inside.

Anyway, we ordered shotgun in an attempt to find something the kids would eat. We got the wasabi tuna pizza, pork dumplings, edamame, rice and tea smoked spareribs as apps. I really liked the ribs and have had them in the past. The mrs. scarfed down the pizza which was just OK in my book.

For entrees, we had the short ribs upon mushroom chow fun, ponzu chicken and some sides. The chicken was a nod to the kids but I thought is simply prepared and just to my liking. After all the first plates, the short ribs were just too over the top heavy for any of us.

Not a chance of taking pictures during this one.

One interesting snafu. We had a gift card that we tried to use and after much ado by the manager, it turned out to have a zero balance. I paid without a fuss to deal with later but our server quietly told us on the way out that this is a glitz in the system and it happens not infrequently. That's too bad. My in laws have to straighten it out and I will not be pleased.

I am a budda-phile still.

Evan