Chat and Interview with Derek Bulmer

[Gary Marshall]

derek

where do you like to eat?

(trying to be general as i suspect you can't answer a direct 'what's your favourite?!')

cheers

gary

[Derek Bulmer]

derek,

I know technically the knife and fork ratings are for comfort rather than food, but surely the food must account for part of the rating? is it not time to register this in your comments?

when travelling the starred restaurants are easy to find and research, the difficulty is finding the cheaper restaurant that's a gem in a row of very similar looking restaurants, especially abroad.

That to me is the value of michelin, oh and the maps are the best.

cheers

gary

ps i will now use viamichelin to keep michelin in touch on the yorkshire dining scene 

←

The process is as follows: Inspectors eat in a restaurant to decide whether or not it is recommendable - based on the quality of the food, the cleanliness, service etc.

If it is recommendable they would then decide the clessification it should be listed under based on the comfort and style of the restaurant. At this point the food is not an issue. Is this what you mean?

[Derek Bulmer]

derek,

what is the review period for inclusion in the guide?

take the 05 guide for example- is it restaurants opened december 03 to december 04?

thanks

gary

←

Our working year in the UK (it differs for the different guides) is from November to November.

[Derek Bulmer]

derek

where do you like to eat?

(trying to be general as i suspect you can't answer a direct 'what's your favourite?!')

cheers

gary

←

I'm not trying to duck the question but I really do like to eat in all types of restaurants and have no particular favourites. Its the variety that makes this job so interesting.

[Derek Bulmer]

I'm afraid I'm not qualified to answer such questions on the Spain & Portugal guide although it's perhaps worth noting that the GB & Ireland Guide is more or less the same size and we also have a little over 100 starred restaurants (120 to be precise).

←

The same number of stars for Spain and the UK? Well you've all but admitted prejudice. That was for effect. I've actually not spent much time in the UK and feel totally unqualified to comment on how well you're doing there. My wife and I do try to spend some time in both Spain and France however, and I have to say that we find the stars in Spain offer greater guarantee we'll be impressed by the food at any star level. Needless to say, I understand that there's a certain subjectivity in this and that we'll all not agree on every restaurant. Still, if I can form a norm for France, I may find some restaurants that I feel should be raised or lowered a notch, while in Spain I've not found a restaurant I thought was over rated and more than a few that were under rated by a star or star and a half easily. In the sense that I am more likely to be pleasantly surprised by the quality of a recommendation in Spain than in France. Thus I could say I find the Michelin Guide more reliable in Spain than in France, but that doesn't lessen my criticism, which I mean to offer in much the same way as I would an opinion about a single restaurant I've enjoyed or not enjoyed. Ultimately, the Michelin remains my first choice in France, but not so in Spain, especially when looking for excellence in out of the way places. I will also admit I've not been good lately about filling in that form. Perhaps I should take some of the blame. By the way, I am indebted for city and town maps in both editions.

←

Thanks for your comments which I've taken on board. Please keep filling in our questionnaires though because the guides thrive on reader feedback.

[Derek Bulmer]

I'm afraid I'm not qualified to answer such questions on the Spain & Portugal guide although it's perhaps worth noting that the GB & Ireland Guide is more or less the same size and we also have a little over 100 starred restaurants (120 to be precise).

←

The same number of stars for Spain and the UK? Well you've all but admitted prejudice. That was for effect. I've actually not spent much time in the UK and feel totally unqualified to comment on how well you're doing there. My wife and I do try to spend some time in both Spain and France however, and I have to say that we find the stars in Spain offer greater guarantee we'll be impressed by the food at any star level. Needless to say, I understand that there's a certain subjectivity in this and that we'll all not agree on every restaurant. Still, if I can form a norm for France, I may find some restaurants that I feel should be raised or lowered a notch, while in Spain I've not found a restaurant I thought was over rated and more than a few that were under rated by a star or star and a half easily. In the sense that I am more likely to be pleasantly surprised by the quality of a recommendation in Spain than in France. Thus I could say I find the Michelin Guide more reliable in Spain than in France, but that doesn't lessen my criticism, which I mean to offer in much the same way as I would an opinion about a single restaurant I've enjoyed or not enjoyed. Ultimately, the Michelin remains my first choice in France, but not so in Spain, especially when looking for excellence in out of the way places. I will also admit I've not been good lately about filling in that form. Perhaps I should take some of the blame. By the way, I am indebted for city and town maps in both editions.

←

Thanks for your comments which I have taken on board. Keep filling in the questionnaires though (on-line at ViaMichelin if it's easier) and the guides thrive on reader feedback.

[Paula Jonvik]

Greetings Mr. Bulmer:

I would be interested to know to what degree the service in a restaurant plays into your inspection of a property?

Thank you for your valuable time.

Kind regard,

Paula Jonvik

Seattle, Washington USA

[Gary Marshall]

derek,

I know technically the knife and fork ratings are for comfort rather than food, but surely the food must account for part of the rating? is it not time to register this in your comments?

when travelling the starred restaurants are easy to find and research, the difficulty is finding the cheaper restaurant that's a gem in a row of very similar looking restaurants, especially abroad.

That to me is the value of michelin, oh and the maps are the best.

cheers

gary

ps i will now use viamichelin to keep michelin in touch on the yorkshire dining scene 

←

The process is as follows: Inspectors eat in a restaurant to decide whether or not it is recommendable - based on the quality of the food, the cleanliness, service etc.

If it is recommendable they would then decide the clessification it should be listed under based on the comfort and style of the restaurant. At this point the food is not an issue. Is this what you mean?

←

yes, sort of!

what i mean is the food is being rated somewhere in the equation?

I'm sure you wouldn't rate a lovely looking restaurant with a poor kitchen, but no overt mention is made in the guide, that a one knife and fork for may be a simple bistro - and you would expect to get simple bistro dishes prepared with care for example.

i suppose what i'm getting at is if the knife and fork ratings do not account for the food then there's a huge gap between restaurants rated as bib gourmand and the stars, and surely they merit a ranking of some sort?

thanks for your responses

cheers

gary

[Gary Marshall]

derek

the newer guides eg pubs/ charming palces to stay are much more descriptive and in colour, and there has been a change to simple commentary in the red book but are there any plans to further alter the red book format to the colour and pictures approach?

thanks

gary

[Andy Lynes]

In your interview with Simon Carter you say that "At the Two and Three star level we expect originality and innovation – a personal signature if you like."

Would you be able to elaborate in general terms on the criteria Michelin uses in order to assess the originality and innovation of a restaurant and its chef.

←

Derek, just bringing this question to your attention in case you missed it.

[Andy Lynes]

The most we would do, and only if asked, is to give a limited feedback on our experiences and those of our readers.

←

What would be the situation if a chef said to an inspector that he wanted to know what he would need to do to improve his rating, say from 1 to 2 stars?

[Suzi Edwards]

I'm very interested in the avant garde movement. Call it molecular gastronomy, culinary constructivism, whatever you want.

How does Michelin view the current avant garde movement in cookery? Is there any tension between what its customers might traditionally look for in the guide and its ability to recommend the most experimental chefs to its readership? Also, how much is Michelin affected by global trend in food?

[albiston]

Derek, thank you for joining us here.

I would be curious to know what you think about the impact of Michelin guides on the style (ambience, service, wine list size and so on) high end restaurants seem to aim at. Do you think restaurants try to modify their style to fit into your parameters? In Italy restaurants aiming at higher Michelin scores (2 and 3 stars) are often accused of giving up their Italian character to follow a "French" model. Regardless of what one might think about this accusation, it is hard to deny these restaurants often invest in improving those parameters that are an essential part of the haute cuisine experience. Can one observe a similar effect in the UK?

Also, do you think it is possible for a restaurant to run into problems once it makes the jump from one to two or two to three stars? Can everyone at this level stand the pressure?

thank you.

[Dirk Wheelan]

Derek, thanks very much for your straightforward replies. In a world obsessed with doublespeak this is refreshing to read.

To what extent is there a chummy dialogue between the guide and its more high profile entries, and how does this affect ratings and response times for their new ventures?

Edited January 25, 2005 by Dirk Wheelan (log)

[Gary Marshall]

derek

do you think it is fair/appropriate to judge a restaurant on its set menus?

I'm thinking along the lines of the starred establishments that do a different menu that is not taken from the ALC, made to a price point rather than a quality angle?

for example ages ago there was a poor review of winteringam fields based on the set lunch, part of me thinks that's a bit harsh as it's not really what they are about, but part says it shouldn't matter?

do your inspectors stick to a la carte or do they mix the set lunches with alc and degustation?

cheers

gary

[Derek Bulmer]

The most we would do, and only if asked, is to give a limited feedback on our experiences and those of our readers.

←

What would be the situation if a chef said to an inspector that he wanted to know what he would need to do to improve his rating, say from 1 to 2 stars?

←

The inspector would tell the chef that 2 stars requires an greater degree of finesse and some originality in the cooking and he would suggest the chef try some existing 2 stars restaurants to see the level required.

[Bux]

Derek, thank you for joining us here.

I would be curious to know what you think about the impact of Michelin guides on the style (ambience, service, wine list size and so on) high end restaurants seem to aim at. Do you think restaurants try to modify their style to fit into your parameters? In Italy restaurants aiming at higher Michelin scores (2 and 3 stars) are often accused of giving up their Italian character to follow a "French" model. Regardless of what one might think about this accusation, it is hard to deny these restaurants often invest in improving those parameters that are an essential part of the haute cuisine experience. Can one observe a similar effect in the UK?

←

As I've spent all of a couple of days in the UK over the past decade let me continue to ask questions, but first, I realize I didn't thank you for coming here and subjecting yourself to this for our pleasure. Thanks for the insight you're offering here.

I'll suggest it would be naive to believe any guide, especially one with scores, be they numerical or the award of stars, doesn't have an effect on the very things it rates, if it is a successful guide. We've all heard of French wineries that attempt to "parkerize" their wines. In fact it was a winemaker from the UK working in France who first used that expression in speaking to me. Do you, the corporate Michelin "you," take any responsibility in this regard and is there really anything you can do about it. You have your standards and certainly it would seem as if anything an establishment did to meet your standards would be good for the consumer if you believe in your standards. Thus my question might better be phrased as do you worry that establishments will misconstrue your standards and do the wrong thing in a misguided attempt to gain a star and is that your problem? Would it serve any purpose to be more explicit about the ratings why they were given? Has any thought ever been given to the idea of offering full blown text critiques of the multistarred establishments?

[Derek Bulmer]

derek

do you think it is fair/appropriate to judge a restaurant on its set menus?

I'm thinking along the lines of the starred establishments that do a different menu that is not taken from the ALC, made to a price point rather than a quality angle?

for example ages ago there was a poor review of winteringam fields based on the set lunch, part of me thinks that's a bit harsh as it's not really what they are about, but part says it shouldn't matter?

do your inspectors stick to a la carte or do they mix the set lunches with alc and degustation?

cheers

gary

←

It shouldn't matter which menu is tried because the fundamentals of good food don't change. We would however take the value for money element into account and would also expect to see less expensive ingredients used on a cheaper set price menu.

Inspectors are free to try any menus on offer and judge accordingly.

When judging new restaurants for a star we would be sure to try both however.

[Derek Bulmer]

Derek, thanks very much for your straightforward replies. In a world obsessed with doublespeak this is refreshing to read.

To what extent is there a chummy dialogue between the guide and its more high profile entries, and how does this affect ratings and response times for their new ventures?

←

The sole purpose of our guides is to give reliable information to our readers about where to stay and where to eat. We are therefore staunchly independent of the industry and retain a professional distance from individual establishments and personalities.

This is generally understood by the industry and I think we are respected for it.

Ratings are therefore not affected. If we appear quick to respond to new ventures of high profile entries it is probably because they are well promoted and don't need us to search them out.

[Derek Bulmer]

Greetings Mr. Bulmer:

I would be interested to know to what degree the service in a restaurant plays into your inspection of a property?

Thank you for your valuable time.

Kind regard,

Paula Jonvik

Seattle, Washington USA

←

Essentially it has two roles to play in our decision making process.

Firstly it is one of the elements we judge in order to decide whether or not a restaurant is recommendable (along with the quality of the food, the cleanliness and upkeep of the premises and the value for money offered).

Secondly - and assuming everything else is recommendable - it helps us decide on the classification the restaurant will be listed under. The more detailed and professional the service, the higher the classification usually is.

[Derek Bulmer]

Derek, thank you for joining us here.

I would be curious to know what you think about the impact of Michelin guides on the style (ambience, service, wine list size and so on) high end restaurants seem to aim at. Do you think restaurants try to modify their style to fit into your parameters? In Italy restaurants aiming at higher Michelin scores (2 and 3 stars) are often accused of giving up their Italian character to follow a "French" model. Regardless of what one might think about this accusation, it is hard to deny these restaurants often invest in improving those parameters that are an essential part of the haute cuisine experience. Can one observe a similar effect in the UK?

←

As I've spent all of a couple of days in the UK over the past decade let me continue to ask questions, but first, I realize I didn't thank you for coming here and subjecting yourself to this for our pleasure. Thanks for the insight you're offering here.

I'll suggest it would be naive to believe any guide, especially one with scores, be they numerical or the award of stars, doesn't have an effect on the very things it rates, if it is a successful guide. We've all heard of French wineries that attempt to "parkerize" their wines. In fact it was a winemaker from the UK working in France who first used that expression in speaking to me. Do you, the corporate Michelin "you," take any responsibility in this regard and is there really anything you can do about it. You have your standards and certainly it would seem as if anything an establishment did to meet your standards would be good for the consumer if you believe in your standards. Thus my question might better be phrased as do you worry that establishments will misconstrue your standards and do the wrong thing in a misguided attempt to gain a star and is that your problem? Would it serve any purpose to be more explicit about the ratings why they were given? Has any thought ever been given to the idea of offering full blown text critiques of the multistarred establishments?

←

Our responsibility is primarily to our readers but if the standards we set lead to a general raising of standards in the industry then we would regard this as a bonus for everyone.

We are however concerned that chefs sometimes misunderstand our standards and cook what they think we would like rather than what their customers would like. This can be a recipe for disaster and we would always advise chefs that any decisions they make should be for sound commercial reasons.

I take your point about greater transparency in our ratings and it's something we will certainly consider in the future as is your suggestion of full blown text critiques for our multistarred restaurants.

[Derek Bulmer]

derek,

I know technically the knife and fork ratings are for comfort rather than food, but surely the food must account for part of the rating? is it not time to register this in your comments?

when travelling the starred restaurants are easy to find and research, the difficulty is finding the cheaper restaurant that's a gem in a row of very similar looking restaurants, especially abroad.

That to me is the value of michelin, oh and the maps are the best.

cheers

gary

ps i will now use viamichelin to keep michelin in touch on the yorkshire dining scene 

←

The process is as follows: Inspectors eat in a restaurant to decide whether or not it is recommendable - based on the quality of the food, the cleanliness, service etc.

If it is recommendable they would then decide the clessification it should be listed under based on the comfort and style of the restaurant. At this point the food is not an issue. Is this what you mean?

←

yes, sort of!

what i mean is the food is being rated somewhere in the equation?

I'm sure you wouldn't rate a lovely looking restaurant with a poor kitchen, but no overt mention is made in the guide, that a one knife and fork for may be a simple bistro - and you would expect to get simple bistro dishes prepared with care for example.

i suppose what i'm getting at is if the knife and fork ratings do not account for the food then there's a huge gap between restaurants rated as bib gourmand and the stars, and surely they merit a ranking of some sort?

thanks for your responses

cheers

gary

←

I don't see a huge gap at all. Starred reataurants are not 'better' than Bib Gourmand restaurants, simply different. Some of our readers actually prefer the simplicity and excellent value for money they offer.

[chefzadi]

The most we would do, and only if asked, is to give a limited feedback on our experiences and those of our readers.

←

What would be the situation if a chef said to an inspector that he wanted to know what he would need to do to improve his rating, say from 1 to 2 stars?

←

The inspector would tell the chef that 2 stars requires an greater degree of finesse and some originality in the cooking and he would suggest the chef try some existing 2 stars restaurants to see the level required.

←

Have you ever really found the need to offer such feedback? In France at least, there is a process to becoming a Michelin starred Chef. I'm not implying that it can be attained by just anyone following the process or that there is a single trajectory. Nonetheless, it doesn't happen incidentally. By the time a chef is at the level of being considered for a Michelin star he has a grasp of what the criteria is. And he also knows the exhorbitant costs involved in such entreprises. ..

By the way welcome to the forum. I didn't notice this chat untill a short while ago. I'm glad I caught it.

[chefzadi]

Derek, thank you for joining us here.

I would be curious to know what you think about the impact of Michelin guides on the style (ambience, service, wine list size and so on) high end restaurants seem to aim at. Do you think restaurants try to modify their style to fit into your parameters? In Italy restaurants aiming at higher Michelin scores (2 and 3 stars) are often accused of giving up their Italian character to follow a "French" model. Regardless of what one might think about this accusation, it is hard to deny these restaurants often invest in improving those parameters that are an essential part of the haute cuisine experience. Can one observe a similar effect in the UK?

←

As I've spent all of a couple of days in the UK over the past decade let me continue to ask questions, but first, I realize I didn't thank you for coming here and subjecting yourself to this for our pleasure. Thanks for the insight you're offering here.

I'll suggest it would be naive to believe any guide, especially one with scores, be they numerical or the award of stars, doesn't have an effect on the very things it rates, if it is a successful guide. We've all heard of French wineries that attempt to "parkerize" their wines. In fact it was a winemaker from the UK working in France who first used that expression in speaking to me. Do you, the corporate Michelin "you," take any responsibility in this regard and is there really anything you can do about it. You have your standards and certainly it would seem as if anything an establishment did to meet your standards would be good for the consumer if you believe in your standards. Thus my question might better be phrased as do you worry that establishments will misconstrue your standards and do the wrong thing in a misguided attempt to gain a star and is that your problem? Would it serve any purpose to be more explicit about the ratings why they were given? Has any thought ever been given to the idea of offering full blown text critiques of the multistarred establishments?

←

Our responsibility is primarily to our readers but if the standards we set lead to a general raising of standards in the industry then we would regard this as a bonus for everyone.

We are however concerned that chefs sometimes misunderstand our standards and cook what they think we would like rather than what their customers would like. This can be a recipe for disaster and we would always advise chefs that any decisions they make should be for sound commercial reasons.

I take your point about greater transparency in our ratings and it's something we will certainly consider in the future as is your suggestion of full blown text critiques for our multistarred restaurants.

←

Surely Michelin must have SOME idea that Michelin starred restaurants, at least in France, don't operate deeply in the black, if at all. And that to meet the Michelin criteria for stars is an expensive business. Do you see the contradiction in this? Advising decisions on the basis of sound commercial reasons while at the same time setting forth criteria that are becoming increasingly costly ($$$$$$) to meet?

[Derek Bulmer]

In your interview with Simon Carter you say that "At the Two and Three star level we expect originality and innovation – a personal signature if you like."

Would you be able to elaborate in general terms on the criteria Michelin uses in order to assess the originality and innovation of a restaurant and its chef.

←

The fundamentals in assessing the originality and innovation in a chef's cooking is included in the list I posted in answer to Matthew Grant's question below.

Assuming the quality of products and technical skill in the preparation are in place it is the compatibility of ingredients used and the resulting flavours that help us judge the originality in the cooking. We ask ourselves questions like: has this been done before; do the ingredients used complement each other and enhance the overall enjoyment of the dish; is it truly memorable...

Anyone can be different for the sake of being different but there are precious few who really understand flavours and textures in order to create new dishes that are truly successful.