Pedro Ximenez

[reuvens]

I am asking:

"What is your favourite Pedro Ximenez?"

I am not looking for Ximenez from 1920 or so. I am looking for a common brand or winery who produces just good XIMENEZ

can anybody help?

[Alex]

I am asking:

"What is your favourite Pedro Ximenez?"

I am not looking for Ximenez from 1920 or so. I am looking for a common brand or winery who produces just good XIMENEZ

can anybody help?

←

Interesting timing. Just yesterday, my trusted local wine retailer recommended the 1975 Gran Reserva from Toro Albalá ($26US, 375ml). We'll probably drink it next weekend -- I'll post again after we do.

Here's their web site (in Spanish).

[Mrs. P]

Emilio Lustau - it has been a while but the Lustau distillery makes a variet of wonderful sherries, and their Pedro Jimienez is excellent and well priced.

[pedro]

Domecq, Gonzázlez-Byass, Osborne are all excellent wineries that beside their exceptional top notch wines produce very good PX at more than reasonable prices.

[ctgm]

I had some last night. Was Valdespino and for the price, under £10 a bottle I think that it was great.

[tommy]

Interesting timing. Just yesterday, my trusted local wine retailer recommended the 1975 Gran Reserva from Toro Albalá ($26US, 375ml). We'll probably drink it next weekend -- I'll post again after we do.

Here's their web site (in Spanish).

←

i love this stuff. it's like candy.

but can someone briefly explain the naming convention as far as the year goes? they have a 75, and then a 99 or something silly like that. i have to think that they made some inbetween.

[JesusBarquin]

but can someone briefly explain the naming convention as far as the year goes?  they have a 75, and then a 99 or something silly like that.  i have to think that they made some inbetween. 

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Hello to everybody: My first time in this side of eGullet!

Do not think that 1975 is the Vintage Year in this wine from Toro Albalá. It's just a reference of the producer, maybe having in mind the beginning of the "solera" or something similar. But 1999, 2000, 2001 and so on are Vintage Years indeed. The latter are younger PXs, a different style from that of 1972 or 1975.

BTW, to my mind PX Toro Albalá 1972 is quite more profound than 1975. And there is a new reference to be released, probably as 1977, also better than 1975.

Concerning Domecq, Venerable is really great (decanting is highly recommended), but Viña 25 (the less expensive PX by this producer) is not. Notwithstanding, both the expensive and the not so expensive "cuvées" by González Byass and Osborne are very good, in absolute quality and in QPR.

My favourite PXs? It depends highly on the price you are ready to afford and on the local availability. Some friends, Pedro among them, seem to think that I have some knowledge on this matter. They are wrong, but I do not want to disappoint them, so ask if you fancy and I`ll try to answer the best I can...

[pedro]

Some friends, Pedro among them, seem to think that I have some knowledge on this matter. They are wrong, but I do not want to disappoint them, so ask if you fancy and I`ll try to answer the best I can...

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What made you think that I'm among them, Jesus?

Now seriously, this guy has written some of the most comprehensive articles available on Andalusian generosos wines, including a great one on PX:

Barquin on PX (in Spanish)

The article includes at the end a more than complete list of wines classified in three tiers according to their quality. Prices in Spain (in €) are also provided.

Enjoy it!

[docsconz]

When tasting his dry white wine made with Pedro Ximenez grapes, Josep Puig related a story that the origen of this grape was in fact German and that it may be a reisling clone. The name Pedro Ximenez is a Spanish form of the name of the person who brought the grape to Spain Peter ?. Unfortunately I don't remember the German last name he mentioned.

[pedro]

I'm afraid that DNA tests have proven that myth wrong, John. But I'm not quite sure if the myth involved PX or actually albariño, probably the white grape variety with the greatest potential in Spain for making good white wine.

Which Josep Puig's wine are you referring to? Sounds a bit odd to me a dry wine made from PX other than Sherries and the like.

[Brad Ballinger]

BTW, to my mind PX Toro Albalá 1972 is quite more profound than 1975. And there is a new reference to be released, probably as 1977, also better than 1975.

I've had both the 1972 and 1975 PX from Toro Albala as well, and wholeheartedly concur with your assessment. The 1972 is in a separate class that is far above the 1975.

[docsconz]

I'm afraid that DNA tests have proven that myth wrong, John.  But I'm not quite sure if the myth involved PX or actually albariño, probably the white grape variety with the greatest potential in Spain for making good white wine.

Which Josep Puig's wine are you referring to? Sounds a bit odd to me a dry wine made from PX other than Sherries and the like.

←

Josep Puig makes a small production dry white at his Vinedas de Ithaca with the PX grape under the Odysseus label. This is a smaller production than his similar garnacha Blanco. The PX is very steely, minerally and quite delicious.

I will quote his own description of it and then attempt a translation

Viva el PX del Priorato!, tan poco conocido y tan bien integrado en la zona despues de tanto tiempo...!!! Long live the PX of the Priorato!, so little known yet so well integrated into the area for so long a time!!!

Al hablar de PX, todo el mundo piensa en los excelentes y untuosos vinos de longeva crianza y tan ideales para los postres dulces, el tabaco y la larga sobremesa... To speak of PX, everyone thinks of the excellent and unctuous aged wines that are ideal with dessert, tobacco and long sitting at the table.

Un productor de Poboleda, nos hablo' de el y no hemos podido resistir la curiosidad de elaborarlo como vino tranquilo, de mesa. Un resultado del todo sorprendente A producer from Poboleda spoke to us about it and we couldn't resist our curiosity to make it as a smooth table wine. The result was totally surprising.

Afrutado en el aroma y tambien en boca, singular y diferente. Se muestra en cierto momento como seco, pero es tambien dulce y ufano, valiente y tenaz. Fruity in the nose as well as the mouth, singular and different. It shows at certain times as dry, but it is also sweet and haughty, valient and tenacious.

A maridar con pescados sobre todo, pero tambien con postres y fruta del tiempo. Lo que se puede llamar un vino muy original del Priorato.A match with fish above all, but also with desserts and seasonal fruit. One may call it a very original wine of the Priorato

I remember the last name of the alleged German. It was Siemans. The legend has it that the Pedro Ximenez grape was brought to Spain by Peter Siemens and came to be called pedro Ximenez after him. I have no idea if this is really true or not, but the myth or legend or whatever one wants to call it makes more sense applied to PX than albarino at least as far as the naming angle goes

I have been remiss in writing up our stellar visits to Vinedos de Ithaca and Masia Duch in the Priorato. I will attempt to do so when I get enough time. They were both superb visits.

[tommy]

BTW, to my mind PX Toro Albalá 1972 is quite more profound than 1975. And there is a new reference to be released, probably as 1977, also better than 1975.

I've had both the 1972 and 1975 PX from Toro Albala as well, and wholeheartedly concur with your assessment. The 1972 is in a separate class that is far above the 1975.

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what is the difference between the 72 and 75? from a wine-making standpoint.

also, the 75 seems very readily available, although i've not noticed the 72. is it hard to come by?

thanks.

[JesusBarquin]

what is the difference between the 72 and 75?  from a wine-making standpoint.

I could not tell exactly. They are supposed to be produced more or less in the same way, but I guess 1972 is in fact older.

also, the 75 seems very readily available, although i've not noticed the 72.  is it hard to come by?

The 1972 is over. The producer started to sell the 1975 three or four years ago, when there was little quantity of the 1972 left. Nowadays you can only get the latter by chance, coming across a couple of bottles in some hidden wine shop in Spain or abroad.

As I say above, I've tasted the forthcoming release (1977, probably) and was quite positively impressed.

[Marco_Polo]

Interesting timing. Just yesterday, my trusted local wine retailer recommended the 1975 Gran Reserva from Toro Albalá ($26US, 375ml). We'll probably drink it next weekend -- I'll post again after we do.

Here's their web site (in Spanish).

←

Hi Alex, thanks for the great link. I didn't know about Bodegas Toro Albalá, and from the link I guess it's in the DO of Montilla-Moriles centring around Cordoba, right? Also I didn't know that such PX wines were made from single vintages rather than from the solera system of dynamic continuous ageing (as per sherry). Absolutely fascinating, and the web site even describes PX wines going back to 1939! I've tasted very old sherries and madeiras, as well as some astonishing ancient Tarragona wines, and the rich, caramelly, buttery oxidized flavours that emerge can be truly unique - and incredibly, beautifully persistent.

I love PX and, as we're coming up to the holiday seasons, it's worth reminding that it's just about the only wine on earth that can actually partner and enhance traditional English Christmas pudding. I like the Domecq Pedro Ximenez: it's widely available, an absolute bargain, and richly, raisiny complex and sweet.

MP

[nimzo]

Desconz, the name the old story I know relates to a supposed Dutch soldier called Pieter Semens but as Pedro and Jancis Robinson confirm , this has been destroyed by viticulturists and by DNA. A widely held belief is that the best PXs are not necessarily those which benefit from the longest time in solers. The optimum age being 30-40 years. The best I have tried include the Osborne rare soleras, the Williams and Humbert PXs including some of the wines from the 1920s and 30s released onto the market a few years ago and the Domecq wines. On a daily basis I think the Byass Noe is outstanding as a heavier style and of course the Lustau wines as lighter style but for me the best ever are those bottled by Byass for the coronation of Queen Elizabeth in 1952 and are still cropping up at auction for around 8 punds a bottle.Whether they have become drier than the modern bottlings due to age or whether the syle in those days was simply lighter I don't know. but they have stunning balance.

[Brad Ballinger]

what is the difference between the 72 and 75?  from a wine-making standpoint.

I could not tell exactly. They are supposed to be produced more or less in the same way, but I guess 1972 is in fact older.

also, the 75 seems very readily available, although i've not noticed the 72.  is it hard to come by?

The 1972 is over. The producer started to sell the 1975 three or four years ago, when there was little quantity of the 1972 left. Nowadays you can only get the latter by chance, coming across a couple of bottles in some hidden wine shop in Spain or abroad.

As I say above, I've tasted the forthcoming release (1977, probably) and was quite positively impressed.

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I don't know of any major difference between 1972 and 1975 except what Mother Nature gave the winemakers. You may be able to find some 1972 around yet in retail sectors. A visit to winesearcher.com will tell you where you can get it.

[primowino]

I'm with Nimzo on the Gonzalez Byass Noe being an excellent heavy example. If someone wants to get the full PX expereince from a sherry that doesn't cost too much and is widely available I would point them at this one.

Warning! pour small glasses, this is rich stuff - liquid figs in alcoholic guise.

[tommy]

I don't know of any major difference between 1972 and 1975 except what Mother Nature gave the winemakers.  You may be able to find some 1972 around yet in retail sectors.  A visit to winesearcher.com will tell you where you can get it.

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my understanding, from this thread, is that the "1975" on the bottle doesn't imply that the grapes came from 1975. if so, they must have had quite a bit of juice, because the "1975" bottles keep showing up on the shelves.

above, jesus states:

Do not think that 1975 is the Vintage Year in this wine from Toro Albalá. It's just a reference of the producer, maybe having in mind the beginning of the "solera" or something similar. But 1999, 2000, 2001 and so on are Vintage Years indeed. The latter are younger PXs, a different style from that of 1972 or 1975.

when you say "what Mother Nature gave the winemakers", do you mean the grapes from 1972 and 1975? or do you mean something else. i'm still confused.

thanks.

Edited November 3, 2004 by tommy (log)