Sushi Yasuda vs. Kuruma Zushi

[Sneakeater]

I want to be clear that I absolutely didn't mean to imply that I thought the cost was an "automatic mark-up" that has nothing to do with quality (although I can easily see how you'd think I meant to imply that).

Edited April 2, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

Also, if you are there for the first time, you are definitely going to pay more than regulars.

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You know, thinking about it [warning: TMI ahead], I was not only there for the first time, but there I was with a very attractive woman much younger than myself. I must have had "easy mark" written all over me.

[ulterior epicure]

Sorry, "TMI?"

u.e.

[Sneakeater]

"Too Much Information"

[Sneakeater]

(A warning that Frank Bruni could creditably give every time he's about to embark upon another discussion of toilets or his dining companions' dating preferences.)

Edited April 2, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[raji]

Gentlemen, pictures, please... I'll be the judge of that.... ;-)

[Todd36]

Kuruma is rumored to be significantly less expensive if you are a regular and are Japanese, more like $100 per person for the fish.

[raji]

I think that's just a rumor, unless you're extended family I don't think you are getting out of there for $100 pp, if not, I would have gone by now. Most Japanese I know have to eschew it because it's going to be upwards of $200 pp "for the fish". But I don't know anyone going there, say, weekly or monthly, so I could be wrong...

[Todd36]

I think that's just a rumor, unless you're extended family I don't think you are getting out of there for $100 pp, if not, I would have gone by now. Most Japanese I know have to eschew it because it's going to be upwards of $200 pp "for the fish". But I don't know anyone going there, say, weekly or monthly, so I could be wrong...

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I know people who go there monthly or more frequently. Heck, I seem to be going to Sugiyama monthly......

[mjs]

I've known people who were regulars at Kuruma back when they were at their old location in the late 80s/early 90s. It was more than $100/pp even then. Having said that, the owner certainly has a reputation for varying the price depending on the customer. In my experience, the "usual" these days is $250/person. I imagine it would be easy to blow through that if one kept ordering huge quantities of otoro, abalone, etc.

Regarding price of sushi in Japan, I think it is misleading to suggest that Japanese will pay more here because the prices are so high at home. In general, sushi is much less expensive in Tokyo than in NY for comparable quality. This is certainly to some extent a function of the cost of flying the best fish here. However, I've frequently paid $25 - $50 in Tokyo for quality that would cost $100+ here. The most expensive sushi place in Tokyo is generally thought to be Kyubei in Ginza. I've been there a few times and I don't think it has ever run more than $300 or $350 per person (including tax & substantial quantities of sake...no tipping in Japan). One can eat almost as well elsewhere in Tokyo, in much less fancy surroundings, for about $150 - 200. IMHO, the quality at Kuruma (while very good by NY standards) doesn't even come close to Kyubei or other top places in Japan.

[cchen]

I know this isn't a contest -- and that if it is some kind of contest, I'm on the losing side -- but I managed to spend $750 for two at Karuma (pre-tax-and-tip), so I've got cchen beat by a mile on the awful steepness scale.

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Heh, if it were a contest, Kuruma wins hands down.

Here's the photoset: Photoset on Flickr

I don't know what else to say but that it was the best sushi meal of my life. There wasn't one piece that I didn't enjoy. I'm missing two pics - one of two sashimi whose name has escaped my mind and one of a maguro sushi.

[BryanZ]

The uni and the bill at the end are quite impressive.

[Sneakeater]

I still haven't been able to decide which was more impressive.

[ulterior epicure]

I know this isn't a contest -- and that if it is some kind of contest, I'm on the losing side -- but I managed to spend $750 for two at Karuma (pre-tax-and-tip), so I've got cchen beat by a mile on the awful steepness scale.

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Heh, if it were a contest, Kuruma wins hands down.

Here's the photoset: Photoset on Flickr

I don't know what else to say but that it was the best sushi meal of my life. There wasn't one piece that I didn't enjoy. I'm missing two pics - one of two sashimi whose name has escaped my mind and one of a maguro sushi.

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Based on pictures alone, I would actually give it to Yasuda. The nigiri at Kuruma look garishly large - could you fit each piece in your mouth in one go?

I will say, the mountain of uni was quite impressive.

u.e.

[raji]

One thing that strikes me about these photos, (besides making me really really want to eat sushi), is the gargantuan size of most of the sushi and sashimi. Either these photos are seriously zoomed in, or these are really huge. That would be a major difference between Kuruma and Yasuda - everything at Yasuda is bitesize, not that I would send big pieces back or anything... some sushi can be too small for American gullets, even I am willing to concede. However I am told by my Japanese fact-checker that in fact traditional, narezushi could be quite large, similar to onigiri, because originally it was meant for storage, fish and rice fermented...

Omakase for 5, $253 each - that's about in line with what I've been hearing - Japanese or not....

However, if you are getting such large cuts of fish, well then you are in fact cutting into his stock, so, maybe the price isn't that unwarranted after all. Still overpriced, no doubt, but I'd rather have big pieces of good fish than big pieces of bad fish...

[ulterior epicure]

One thing that strikes me about these photos, (besides making me really really want to eat sushi), is the gargantuan size of most of the sushi and sashimi. Either these photos are seriously zoomed in, or these are really huge. That would be a major difference between Kuruma and Yasuda - everything at Yasuda is bitesize, not that I would send big pieces back or anything... some sushi can be too small for American gullets, even I am willing to concede. However I am told by my Japanese fact-checker that in fact traditional, narezushi could be quite large, similar to onigiri, because originally it was meant for storage, fish and rice fermented...

Good point raji, however, I find that in modern-day practical sushi-eating, most Japanese nigiri are traditionally served in smaller, bite-sized, portions. Certainly, mouth sizes vary, (and I've got no small mug ), and I assume it does have to do with eater-preference, but I find that Yasuda's portions to be both more managable and make for a better eating experience. .

u.e.

Edited April 8, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[raji]

Yeah sorry that was a bit of a confusing post by me. As the capitol moved east to Tokyo sushi became a fast-food served out of carts and small sushi bars, and nigirizushi, for aesthetic and practical reasons, and in the name of being more "modern", settled into it's current bite size. But I find it better for sushi to fit in your mouth in one go, otherwise you have to bite it and it could fall apart and what about soy distribution etc. Lots of reasons...

[Sneakeater]

It's definitely true that the pieces are much bigger at Karuma than at Yasuda. In fact, Mr. Yasuda makes a big show of tailoring his cuts to each individual diner's mouth size.

[cchen]

Had dinner at Yasuda tonight, at Chef Yasuda's station. Tonight was my second visit there. I'm convinced that Kuruma is "better" than Yasuda. Here's why. I think the fish quality at Kuruma is ridiculous (in a good way) and better than Yasuda. Yasuda does have the edge on fish variety, and his eel is amazing (obviously since he used to be an eel chef). However, every single piece at Kuruma was amazing. I remember giggling in delight as each piece was served. At Yasuda, there were moments where I was very excited - the eel, the different uni, the oyster. But on the whole, I was completely blown away at Kuruma, and I left Yasuda feeling somewhat disappointed. That said, Yasuda's rice was good, but not as good as I had expected. On one of the pieces of uni, the rice completely broke apart. I was disappointed. But in his toro roll, I could really taste how much better his rice was than others.

Maybe it comes down to preference. I would definitely return to Yasuda, but it isn't a place I'd go really out of the way to get a reservation for. I'd much rather wait, save the money, and go to Kuruma. And I wouldn't go back to Gari - well maybe... if it were a quarter cheaper.

Edited September 6, 2006 by cchen (log)

[AzianBrewer]

Yeah sorry that was a bit of a confusing post by me. As the capitol moved east to Tokyo sushi became a fast-food served out of carts and small sushi bars, and nigirizushi, for aesthetic and practical reasons, and in the name of being more "modern", settled into it's current bite size. But I find it better for sushi to fit in your mouth in one go, otherwise you have to bite it and it could fall apart and what about soy distribution etc. Lots of reasons...

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Another point for Raji...I hate when sushi fell apart after the first bite. It is hard to evenly distribute the soy sauce since the dipping saucer is smaller than the nigiri.

[raji]

Had dinner at Yasuda tonight, at Chef Yasuda's station. Tonight was my second visit there. I'm convinced that Kuruma is "better" than Yasuda. Here's why.

What was the damage at Yasuda vs. Kurumazushi?

I've remarked this before, but there is a certain Kuruma tipping point at which it is cheaper to transport ME to the FISH rather than the other way around...

BTW I fell into a conversation with a friend of mine who frequents Kuruma, and the "Kuruma" in Kurumazushi does not refer to car (in Japanese, car = kuruma), but most likely is from kurumaebi, which is the king-size shrimp sushi, and is eaten raw as all good shrimp sushi should be... I can't stand cooked shrimp among my sushi order!!!

[cchen]

Yasuda: $145 after tax and tip

Kuruma: about $275 after tax and tip

and yes, the kuruma does refer to the kurumaebi, which i did have that time i went. Certainly, there's a point where the prices at Kuruma become ridiculous. I don't think $275 is outrageous considering the quality and quantity. Sure, you can say that there's better in Tokyo, you'd rather go to Tokyo (I would too), but being here in NYC, if I want sushi of that caliber now, thats the only place to go.

[AzianBrewer]

Raji, does Kuruma fry up the shrimp head and served as appetizer after the use of the tail for sushi?

Edited September 6, 2006 by AzianBrewer (log)

[cchen]

Raji, does Kuruma fry up the shrimp head and served as appetizer after the use of the tail for sushi?

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no.

[raji]

Hmmm I don't know.... Mr. Chen?