Bid Brasserie

[robert brown]

Steven, in light of your fondness for Chef Matt and the lengthy review you did of Bid, I'm sure I'm not the only one curious to know what you think of Grimes' review.

All the best,

Robert

[Fat Guy]

Were I the chef I'd be pretty happy with that review. I'd probably wish for another star, but I'd find little in the text to quibble with.

I wish he hadn't devoted so much space up front to explaining what Bid is not, and I had trouble envisioning some of his metaphors (melted whale?), but I thought his analysis of the food was accurate.

Obviously with a review like that, which I'd characterize as extremely positive, you've got to make a call whether to give two or three stars. It's a new restaurant with a young, unknown chef, so I can certainly see the logic in two. It's definitely got the soul and ambition of a three-star restaurant, though, and I hope he keeps tabs on the place and reevaluates it after a year or so.

[Andy Lynes]

Meanwhile - back at the Bid review. Although I am loath to criticise someone who is good enough to actually get paid for writing reviews of restaurants (unlike some of us, meaning me), I find Mr Grimes style quite difficult to deal with.

He seems as interested in his own writing as the restaurant he is reviewing, with the result that you need to wade through the metaphors, similes and artfully constructed sentences before you can find out what he actually thinks of the place.

NB This posting has been spell checked for your increased reading pleasure.  

 

[robert brown]

I'm starting to think that Grimes would like to go back to the NY Times Culture Desk. He gave the impression that there was something wrong with getting into the food, and that he was looking at it more than he was tasting it. It seemed to me that the Bid review was written by someone who is a bit of a cold fish.

[Fat Guy]

Wilfrid, a two-star review from the Times isn't likely to fill a restaurant. The days when small gradations of New York Times stars could make or break a restaurant may not be completely over, but they are certainly waning. I'm sure the folks at Bid will find you a nice table -- perhaps just not at 8:00pm on Saturday.

[Wilfrid]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 12:16 pm on Nov. 9, 2001

I'm sure the folks at Bid will find you a nice table -- perhaps just not at 8:00pm on Saturday.

No problem, I have squeezed in - on Saturday, indeed - using my customary late sitting option, which works  with surprising frequency even for very popular restuarants and suits my weird metabolism.  Now I need to read your review again.

[Fat Guy]

So, Wilfrid, will you tell us about your meal? Don't make me beg.

[Wilfrid]

No need to beg!  I was resolved not to review the restaurant again here, but looked out for anything which I could add to what you and Grimes have said.  So a couple of things:  I did eat the tasting menu, which is reasonable at ๑ - and the highlights were lobster in a creamy broth with black trumpet mushrooms and chunks of salty bacon (or pancetta), and the deeply flavoured, reduced to stickiness, juice on ther braised lamb shank.

Also worth emphasising the wine prices.  Ridiculously low for a restaurant of this calibre.  I wonder if they can hold them down.  I talked to the sommelier about it, and he said that he did take trouble to find reasonably priced sources.  Even so, there are many, many appealing bottles on the list in the ษ to ุ price range.  What can the mark up be?  I drank a Chassagne Montrachet AC from 1995, which was all it should have been, for ็ (or was it ๑?).  I'd have paid ำ to ุ for that in a wine store without blinking.

Yes, it's a good restaurant indeed.  I did have a slightly confused waiter, but I did not get the impression that he was representative of the service, which generally was very smooth and friendly.  What an UGLY building, though - I'd never noticed it before.

[Fat Guy]

Thanks for pointing that out. I think Alex Garcia (you may recognize him from the Tasting Room) is doing a bang-up job as wine director. He cares, and he has tried very hard to avoid outrageous markups. His percentage markup isn't all that terribly low, but he's tried to make sure every wine on the list hard to find and a good value.

I too have noticed some service irregularity. The management level people are all excellent, as are the bussers. But in the middle there is a bit of a soft spot. That's not the case with every waiter, but there is some need for additional training at that level.

[Wilfrid]

Yes, that's exactly where the soft spot was.  I got a great table, by the way, a round one in the corner.  It was pretty full for a Saturday second seating.

[robert brown]

Given the nature of Sotheby's legal troubles, they shouldn't be offering fixed-price dinners in their restaurant.

[Fat Guy]

Cute.

But the pricing is a la carte.

[robert brown]

It depends how you consider the tasting menu Wilfrid had. While I got you here, how do I get to the wine store in the Bronx?. Yesterday I went under Arthur Ave. going the wrong way on the Cross Bronx Expressway.

[Bux]

Andy Lynes: Although I am loath to criticise someone who is good enough to actually get paid for writing reviews of restaurants (unlike some of us, meaning me), I find Mr Grimes style quite difficult to deal with.

Robert Brown: I'm starting to think that Grimes would like to go back to the NY Times Culture Desk. He gave the impression that there was something wrong with getting into the food, and that he was looking at it more than he was tasting it. It seemed to me that the Bid review was written by someone who is a bit of a cold fish.

Fat Guy: The days when small gradations of New York Times stars could make or break a restaurant may not be completely over, but they are certainly waning.

Andy, do you really believe one has to be good to be paid?

Robert, have you ever read anything that Grimes has written that indicates he enjoys food or dining? I guess I was out of town when the review appeared, but by your description, I should judge it a typical review. It sounds deeply honest.

Fat Guy, I suspect the NY Times reviews do not have an overall power. As you've noted elsewhere on this site, a three star review will not rock a restaurant with an established clientele if the food is still four stars. A great review will, however, bring a crowd to a new restaurant a lot faster than word of mouth. I think three stars is a great review and two just a good review. Of course I'm implying that too many people just read the stars or what they feel is the bottom line. I think a three star restaurant is something people feel they have to check out as soon as possible. A two star can wait. I still think most people pay too much attention to the NY Times stars. If we got a new reviewer who nobody knew tomorrow, his, or her, stars would be worth as much as any previous reviewer's. Okay, I'm a cynic. It's also worth noting that any review except a really bad review will probably bring some business to a restaurant.

[Wilfrid]

Another quick cheer for Bid.  It was pretty quiet on Saturday night, but hopefully that had something to do with the near-impossibility of getting around the East side of town rather than a falling-off of interest.

I ate a la carte for the first time.  Lobster and sea urchin ragout - lobster fractionally underdone for my taste, but lashings of rich sea urchin.  Then a roast guinea fowl which compared well with the excellent version I ate at Craft.  The breast here is wrapped in pancetta; an extra delight was the leg meat, braised and sort of pulled (like BBQ, but not that flavor), dripping with a rich stock and accented with fresh tarragon.  Completely over the top sticky brioche thing for dessert.  

Good indeed, and worthy of support.

[Fat Guy]

That Guinea hen leg meat is shocking, isn't it? I must confess to my great embarrassment I had to ask what it was. I guessed braised veal in some sort of bordelaise-type sauce. It's so meaty, it's hard to believe it's not bovine in derivation. I have to tell you, though, the best part of that dish gets eaten by the cooks in the kitchen: The ends of the wrapped white meat, wrapped in caul fat. Next time you order the dish, ask them to leave that on. They'll be amazed you knew to ask.

[Wilfrid]

Let me too confess, in that case:  I couldn't figure out the fresh herb; the overall effect was so unusual (although delicious) I thought at first it was dill.  Tarragon, apparently.  And thank you for the suggestion; I do like things wrapped in caul fat.

[Rail Paul]

Dee and I had dinner at Bid last night. Pleasant experience, thanks to all posters for the recommendations.

Started the afternoon with a performance of Albee's Who is Sylvia? at the Golden. Very thought provoking, but I expect the director will make a few adjustments before the opening.

Bid's bar manager was training a new bartender, so we watched, critiqued, drank free cosmopolitans, and watched a photo shoot. Over the course of 30 minutes, she made apple martinis, cosmopolitans, learned the layout of the bar, fine points of spraying orange oils, etc.

The photo shoot was of several specific dinner items to accompany a review in New York magazine next week. Matt Seeber, the stylist, the photographer, an assistant, a place setting with candles, a corner of the bar with butcher paper: interesting to watch.

Our table had been ready since our arrival at the bar, but the bar was fun. Two paid drinks plus tip was $30, additional drinks, kibitz were free.

Very empty restaurant. By 630, only one other table had patrons. Dee ordered a foie gras with bluberries reduced to the color of prunes, which made the foie gras taste like butter. I had the sea urchins with rock shrimp in a celery (& Chapagne?) cream sauce. The effect was a very nautical, briny, invigorating result.

An amuse bouche of a grilled scallop was intriguing, with a dusting of Asian spices.

Dee ordered venison, which arrived cool, but with the desired redness in the center. A roundel of potatoes was served on a separate plate. Both were fine. I had loin of lamb, which was fine, warm and cooked to order. The lamb was served with an assortment of root vegetables (turnips, potatoes, carrots, etc) infused with spices.

Dessert wasn't quite up to the same level. Dee was not impressed with her apple tart. Nothing specific, but seemed pedestrian compared to the other items we tried. I found the pear croustillant to be fine, with pear infused ice cream and granita.

We left about 830, and the restaurant had filled just 6-7 tables. The main room was briefly photoed. The maitre asked if we had objections (witness protection? not with spouse? on the lam?). The house then provided the maitre and bar manager to fill one empty table, and another employee to sit at a second table. They were relocated, shot by shot, to fill out the room.

Total dinner bill was about $170 with tip, two glasses of white burgundy, and a Fuller's ESB. Tasting menus of 4-5-6 courses are available, wine pairings are noted on the menu. Service was exceptionally attentive (our waiter, Richard, and two bus boys had just two tables).

Bid also states that on days of wine sales or tastings, guests  may bring their own wines to the restaurant without corkage charges. That's an exceptionally generous offer.

[mogsob]

Today's New York has a review of Bid (quite positive) in which the author notes that the wine list was "expensive."

That comment did not accurately reflect what I had believed to be a very interesting and well-priced list (along that GT lines).  Has the list changed?  Is the mark-up higher?  I seem to recall that the mark-up was a GT-like 90-120%.

[Fat Guy]

I haven't seen the review because it's not on the magazine's Web site yet, but I would agree that to call Bid's wine list expensive is incorrect if you judge according New York restaurant norms. Bid is probably running a standard 1/3 wine cost on average, with some bottles representing better and worse bargains. I know that there was great effort made to provide a few bargain gems at every price point. And of course there are some luxury wines.

Perhaps we need a new thread on this, but most restaurant reviewers don't know enough about wine to make these sorts of snap judgments. I certainly don't, and I bet I know more about wine than the average restaurant reviewer -- which isn't saying much at all. Back when I wrote reviews on a regular basis, I would take down as much information about the wine list as possible and sometimes, if I could, get a copy of the list. I'd always have an impression of the list overall, but I would then go over that list with one of my small number of contacts in the wine business in order to get a reality check. Sometimes I'd learn that the list was very strong in an area I knew nothing about. In many cases, my initial reactions were overruled by the experts.

I have a friend at one of the wine magazines who contantly complains to me about the paucity of wine coverage in restaurant reviews. I agree. If I ever get a serious weekly reviewing gig again, I intend to give very serious attention to all wine lists.

[Wilfrid]

I don't have access to my notes right now, so can't remember what I drank there a few weeks back.  But I certainly don't recall thinking the list was expensive.

[jordan]

I have found the wine list at Bid to be value oriented.  Yes, there are some rare/hard to find wines on the list that are priced on the high side but the list, as a whole, is inexpensive.

[Rail Paul]

I didn't take notes on the wines at Bid last week, but my recollection is a reasonable price list. Many wines in the $40-60 range, a few in the $25-40.

I do distinctly remember that Dee's glass of Chablis was $13, and the bottle was $40, which struck me as not excessive, if you figure 4 glasses to a 750 bottle.

(Have to go out and get the mag and see if our pix are in it!!)

[Beachfan]

A bottle is 28 oz.  I'd say most restaurant pours are 4 oz, or 3.5 oz, giving you about 7 glasses per bottle.

[Fat Guy]

I thought a standard 750ml wine bottle contained just over 25oz of wine. In any event, my understanding, based on interviewing several sommeliers for a story I wrote about two years ago (and confirmed by my experience), is: When a sommelier pours for a table from a bottle that has been ordered, the pours tend to be in that range because from an oenological standpoint it's nice to put a small quantity in a big bowl and it's going to be topped off as people finish drinking anyway. And when you plan a dinner party you assume 6 pours from a bottle, because homes tend to have smaller glasses than restaurants (over the past decade especially, most good restaurants have significantly increased the size of their stemware bowls). But when you order by the glass you get a bigger pour. A standard by-the-glass pour at a good restaurant is between 5 and 6 ounces. Allowing for waste, tastes, sediment, and overpours, standard yield from a bottle is 4 glasses. This is how most of the better establishments compute their by-the-glass cost versus their bottle cost (a glass will typically cost a little more than 1/4 of the bottle price). In Europe, at wine bars and such, it's common for glasses to have a line painted on that indicates 150ml (a bottle is 750ml, but for the reasons listed above it's unusual to get more than 4 150ml pours out of a 750ml bottle, though at a high-volume place you might get 9 out of 2 bottles; somebody check my math!).