Sweetbreads

[Stone]

Pancreas or Thymus?  Or are they the same thing?

[A Balic]

The pancreas and thymus are different organs. Sweetbreads are the latter. Mind your if a lamb/calf pancreas was dished up to you it would most likely be described as a sweetbread, lacking  and better culinary definition. The pancreas is a much more loosely constructed organ though, so I don't think it would feature as a food item as much as the thymus in Haute cooking. Its a texture thing. The Greeks may eat pancreas though, as they seem to have a use for every other type of organ meat.

[Wilfrid]

I beg to differ.  I believe both the pancreas and thymus are correctly referred to as sweetbreads.  I could go and look up a reference, I suppose.  

[yvonne johnson]

"Sweetbreads come in two varieties. The first is the thymus gland, also called the throat sweetbread orgorge in French. The second variety is the pancreas, also referred to as the stomach sweetbread or noix in French." I don't know how authoritative this site is:

http://www.cheftalk.com/HTML/Education/pas.../sweetbrds.html

[Fat Guy]

If you order sweetbreads at a mainstream, upscale restaurant in the United States or France, it's always thymus. The pancreas usage, though correct, is rarely invoked anywhere outside of books claiming to offer culinary definitions.

[Stone]

I believe the recent issue of Saveur refers to sweetbreads as either pancreas or thymus.

[tommy]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 2:09 pm on Jan. 11, 2002

If you order sweetbreads at a mainstream, upscale restaurant in the United States or France, it's always thymus.

but then again, who the #### orders sweetbreads.

;)

[Stone]

The same people that eat fish eggs because they're given a fancy French name.

[tommy]

Quote: from Dstone001 on 3:09 pm on Jan. 11, 2002

The same people that eat fish eggs because they're given a fancy French name.

oh come on.  you don't really mean that!

[Wilfrid]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 2:09 pm on Jan. 11, 2002

The pancreas usage, though correct...

That's okay, I'll settle for being correct;).  Seriously, a further complication is that upscale restaurants in the States almost always offer veal sweetbreads.  Elsewhere - certainly in London - there's a fair chance you'll be offered lamb sweetbreads.  In the latter case, I think (though I may be wrong) that the pancreas is more likely to feature.

And Dstone001...I have a horrible feeling that you do mean it.  Well, I order sweetbreads, and I expect a lot of other people on this site do too.  And what is this fancy French name for fish eggs?  Oeufs de poisson?  Don't tell me it's "caviar", because that's a word which has been in the English language literally for centuries, and its original derivation is Turkish.  If you do mean caviar, I would mildly observe that people also eat a lot of fish eggs which aren't caviar, for example shad or cod roe.

(Deep sigh)

[Lesley C]

Apparently moose sweetbreads are the best of them all (no kidding).

(Edited by Lesley C at 4:55 pm on Jan. 11, 2002)

[A Balic]

Quote: from Wilfrid on 12:42 am on Jan. 12, 2002

Quote: from Fat Guy on 2:09 pm on Jan. 11, 2002

The pancreas usage, though correct...

That's okay, I'll settle for being correct;).  Seriously, a further complication is that upscale restaurants in the States almost always offer veal sweetbreads.  Elsewhere - certainly in London - there's a fair chance you'll be offered lamb sweetbreads.  In the latter case, I think (though I may be wrong) that the pancreas is more likely to feature.

And Dstone001...I have a horrible feeling that you do mean it.  Well, I order sweetbreads, and I expect a lot of other people on this site do too.  And what is this fancy French name for fish eggs?  Oeufs de poisson?  Don't tell me it's "caviar", because that's a word which has been in the English language literally for centuries, and its original derivation is Turkish.  If you do mean caviar, I would mildly observe that people also eat a lot of fish eggs which aren't caviar, for example shad or cod roe.

(Deep sigh)

I also eat sweetbreads, one of the better organ meats. I would rather have sweetbreads, calf liver, veal kidneys etc then steak, any day of the week.  I  was interested to see that the pancreas is also called sweetbreads, I guessed that this would be the case, but was unaware that the pancreas was ever eaten in UK/US etc. I haven't eaten the pancreas, but I have seen a fair few sheep pancreasi (it was a work thing) and as I said the construction of the organ is quite different to the thymus, much looser in texture.

Yvonne, during my Ph.D. (which was on sheep immunololgy, hence the interest in the ruminant anatomy, professional pride and all), I worked with people who were removing the thymus from sheep. In this case the thymus was located just above the heart, while the pancreas is located nearer the abomasum (true stomach)/spleen. I haven't got any of my sheep text books with me so I did a web search and found this information:

http://www.bartleby.com/87/0015.html

So, I am unsure of the nature of the neck sweetbread, I think that it most likely is the thymus, but it could also be something else, maybe the thyroid? I am guessing that the term "sweetbread" is a very loose definition and may refer to large variety of vaguely identified organs. For instance you could eat the lymph nodes of sheep/cattle etc (I don't think that anybody does, although they should be very similar to the thymus), in this case I would also define them as sweetbreads. I could also call them "petit blanc" sweetbreads if it would make them easier for people to eat  :).

Anyway having said all this about sheep sweetbreads, I actually prefer veal sweetbreads. These are very difficult to get in the UK (as is all veal), so the most recent sweetbreads I have had were lamb sweetbreads. From their appearance I would say they were the thymus, not the pancreas. They may do things differently here in the North, compared to London though. Infact I know they do!

[Bux]

Let me just sign in as a member of the sweetbread eaters--but you all knew that. Right?

My 1961 U.S. English language edition of the Larrouse Gastronomique says:

Name of the thymus of calf and lamb. This organ, situated at the top of the breast, is in two parts, of which one, round in shape, is called in French the noix, and the other, more elongated and less regular is the throat sweetberad or gorge.

I'm not at all sure this is accurate or correct. It appears they missed the pancreas, but nevertheless, I cite an "authority."

I once asked a waiter in Spain for information about the ingredient listed as the stuffing in a braised lamb dish. As she didn't know the words "sweetbread" or "ris" the description I got was the gland that is found only in the young animal. It was, by the way, an unexpectedly rich and delicious dish that made my day.

[Wilfrid]

Bux, the pancreas is cited in my more recent US Larousse (1984? 1986?).  Interestingly, Spanish speakers use the same word for the pancreas/thymus stuff and also for chick or duck gizzards - mollejas.  Sort of confirms Adam's point about the vagueness of such terms.

[Jim Dixon]

Here in the US, what are sold as sweetbreads are the hypothalamus glands of calves (or veal). The gland disappears as the animal matures.

Jim

[A Balic]

Quote: from Jim Dixon on 9:26 pm on Jan. 14, 2002

Here in the US, what are sold as sweetbreads are the hypothalamus glands of calves (or veal). The gland disappears as the animal matures.

Jim

Jim - the hypothalamus is part of the brain, isn't that illegal to sell as food these days with BSE and all?

[Wilfrid]

I can tell you my hypothalamus is disappearing as I get older.

[Bux]

Interestingly, Spanish speakers use the same word...

As an Englishman living in the US and with a native speaker of Spanish, you should know that neither English nor Spanish speaking people ever use the same word for the same thing in different places. ;-)

Forced me to my files. It was only a matter of time anyway. From my menu at La Cocina Aragonesa in Jaca:

Lomo de Cordero Relleno de sus Lechecillas

We were told "Lechecillas" was a reference to the fact that the gland disappeared after the animal was suckled.

[Wilfrid]

I take your point.  I have never seen the term  lechecillas before!  

[Jim Dixon]

Adam,

In November 2000 France banned sweetbreads because of the possible threat of BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease), and here in the US the use of ground up animal parts in livestock feed is no longer allowed. But as far as I can tell, there's no restriction on selling brain parts for human consumption.

I believe that the theory is that BSE is actually spread by eating the livestock that have been fed the ground parts of other animals, not the actual brain tissue itself. And so far the USDA's not saying that BSE is a problem here, so any parts are okay.

However, after reading Fast Food Nation I stick with meat that I know comes from a local producer, not one of the national packing houses where tissue from thousands of animals is blended together. There are other, more likely dangers from meat than BSE.

Jim

[Wilfrid]

Quote: from Jim Dixon on 4:28 pm on Jan. 14, 2002

In November 2000 France banned sweetbreads because of the possible threat of BSE.

Are we at cross purposes here?  I find it very hard to believe that sweetbreads are banned in France.  What do others say?  Bux?

I think Adam was trying to make the point that the hypothalamus is not a sweetbread, but is part of the brain.  They may have banned brains in France, but again its news to me.

[Fat Guy]

http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/france/11/10/cjd.02/

[Andy Lynes]

I would tend to order sweetbreads on a menu, simply because they are a complete bastard to get hold of to cook at home in the UK , unless you live around the corner forn Harvey Nicks or similar, which I don't of course.

Most government issued advice on what to eat and what not to eat is complete and utter crap. The scientific evidence is usually incomplete, unproven and contradictory. A good example is eat more oily fish, except it's more suseptable to the contaminationt in the sea. Or something like that.

My advice is eat it if you fancy it and don't blame me or anyone else if it turns out bad.  

[Bux]

This link has a rather large list of articles written more recently about the US and may be of interest. It was first posted in the France forum by franklanguage. Few people seem to believe that the US ban on animal parts in cattle feed has been 100% effective. That combined with the fact that our testing seems not be as rigorous as that in Europe should be of come concern. Most scientists believe vCJD is related to eating beef from BSE infected cows. They are not the same. One is bovine and the other a human disease. A related disease is fairly rampant in game in the far west. Scary as reading the links on the web site can be, vCJD is probably not the most serious risk we take when eating.

Wilfrid, just checked an English/Spanish dictionary and they list both mollejas and lechecillas as sweetbreads.

I've read of a ban in France, but sweetbreads were on the menu in some restaurants in France this past November.

[Wilfrid]

How depressing.  France without ris de veau.  The world has gone mad.  Andy Lynes is right about the complete hopelessness of government interventions in these areas.  Look at the utterly dopey British ban on beef-on-the-bone.  The risks from eating beef-on-the-bone and sweetbreads must be so infinitesimally low that they arguably don't call for government action at all.  Governments, however, feel compelled to act, not least because they are worried about law suits if they don't: the simple solution would be to issue posters or leaflets to be displayed at point of sale which would inform the consumer in simple terms what the risks of eating the product are.  You could then read the leaflet, throw it in the trash, and go ahead and buy whatever meat (or cheese) you like.  You are vastly more likely to die from food poisoning than from cjd.