Viognier

[Boris_A]

I think Condrieus are best drunk young. Look for recent vintages.

Interestingly, some French like those wines matured.

I can't say much about that, but there must be two or three bottles of "Doriane" 1994/95 sleeping forgotten somewhere in my cellar. I'm curious now about the secondary aromatics developped over time.

[Phil Ward]

I second Mark's Terasses d'Empire, he poured it for us at his restaurant and it was wonderful. 

Mark himself may shoot me down for this one, but I've always like Horton Vineyards Viogner, from that ancient wine-producing region of Virginia.  Not is the same class as the les terrasses, but nne of the few Virginia wines I've found worth the price -- $18 or so.  I don't know how widely available it is. I did once see it on the wine list at Rubicon in San Francisco.

Horton is great, if you can find more current vintages. The bottles I've seen on the shelves recently are still the 1999 vintage, a bottle last week tasted of white wine and not much else. My fave VA viognier is Chrysalis, a bit expensive for a Virginia wine (I think about $24 wholesale) but worth it in my opinion.

Having spent two days in Nov touring VA wineries, I suggest you not look for Horton as I was totally disappointed with their wines overall. The 1999 is the current release of Viognier. The wine was nice but not as fresh as it could have been. It appears that they have too many wines in the line up and have lost focus, IMHO.

I found Whitehall's version (2002) to be fresher and livelier and a good value. King Family/Michael Shaps makes two versions, a Chard Viognier blend that was quite good and a Viognier with about 1.1% RS that was very expressive and the RS did show through a bit too much for me.

I had a Chrysalis Petit Manseng that blew me away!!

[primowino]

However, AOC labeling usually precludes varietal labeling, but I think I might have seen a few exception as of late (although firm details are not springing to mind)

This used to be the case but here in the UK we see a lot of lower grades of AOC wine with grape varietal indicated, most commonly with Chardonnay or Pinot Noir for basic Bourgogne AOC. The French obviously think they need to do this to sell these wines to a generation brought up on varietal-named New World wines.

The best example of non-French viognier I have had was from Australian producer Yalumba and was simply called Viognier in their Y-series. It was about £10 and was pretty intense with definite apricot tones and enough acidity not to leave any cloying aftertaste.

[SethG]

this was a much more full-bodied and sophisticated drink.

I will agree with the full-bodied, but not more sophisticated.

Craig, have you tried the wine I was talking about? I meant to cast no aspersions on Muscadet or Riesling-- I love them both. Maybe it was the blend that made me feel it had a bit more complexity.

Or maybe I should shut up.

[KatieLoeb]

Seth:

I just received an e-mail today that has a nice selection of Viogniers available (including the Arrowood mentioned earlier) at various price points. I can't ship wine into PA, so I don't know if this link will be helpful to you. I presume you live in a more progressive state than this on, so perhaps it's worth a look:

Oakhillstore.com - Viogniers

I'm tempted to buy some and ship it to a friend's house in NJ.

[Carema]

Or maybe I should shut up.

I do not think you should at all. Look you have brought up a great topic, brought to light a grape that obviously is elusive hard to pin down and no-one can seem to agree about where it expresses itself best or how long to age it. Personally just because acid is low in Viognier I say like Mark S. drink young. But I have had a few aged ones that have worked out well (better check those hidden 94/95s Boris, and soon). In any event I think what Craig might be saying is that Viognier is a one trick pony. All seduction and flash and then, well it is over. But it is a great discovery and crush to go through, even if you end up not taking it to the prom.

[SethG]

Thanks, Katie. I'm in New York, where I think I can receive wine by mail. But I should also be able to find plenty of the recommended bottles locally, too.

And Carema, thanks for your kind words but I was kidding (mostly). Craig's opinion was not at all offensive-- I just meant I should probably stop writing about this one bottle of wine before I embarrass myself further.

[Craig Camp]

Sorry SethG if I offended. I was only giving my opinion - not refuting yours.

The only truly great viognier I have tasted is from Condrieu. I believe Mark S. mentioned the sublime wines of Vernay. With few exceptions I think this varietal has not succeeded well in other climates and is often gets attention only because of its intense tropical fruit salad flavors and aromas. Outside of Condrieu it makes wines often disastrously low in acid.

[SethG]

Sorry SethG if I offended. I was only giving my opinion - not refuting yours.

Craig, please, as I said above, you did not offend.

[fyfas]

To the California viogniers mentioned I'd add the Calera Mt. Harlan.

Always a favorite, it is pricey at about $36 full retail. And, Calera specifically suggests that it be drunk young.

A recent example of an aged viognier that I quite liked was the '96 Terre Rouge (California/Shenandoah Valley).

And, finally, on the QPR side look for a French viognier, '02 Les Salices from Jacques et Francois Lurton. Whole Foods here in New Mexico had it for about $10 and it was a very good example of what viognier should taste like and at a price that (to me at least) approached stealing. Distributor responsible for it here is the Guigal distributor so possibly someone who retails a lot of Guigal might have this. Note, too, that another Lurton available - a pinot noir - was not good at all.

[John W.]

I had a '92 Calera Mt. Harlan two months ago (an oddity found in a friend's cellar). I wouldn't say it was wonderful, but interesting and definitely intact.

[winebill]

From the wine glossary

Viognier

Hmmm a "Clonal relationship to the Chasselas grape variety."

Time revisit Swiss wines

[Boris_A]

revisit Swiss wines

Anytime!

Clonal relationship to the Chasselas grape variety

When made to wine, you get a completely different juice.

The Viogniers I know tend to the 'flowry, exotic fruit' side, whereas the best Swiss Chasselas tend to the 'mineralic, non-flowry, subtle-bitterness' side.

Just an opinion, of course.