Pronouncing "Foie Gras"

[KateW]

Ok, just to clear up a question someone had a LONG time ago, the S is not pronounced in foie gras and Mardi Gras, right?

[elyse]

Correct.

A bunch of years ago when I worked at Iridium in NYC, jazz club, shitty restaurant, asshole owners, I was doing reception during the day. The guitar player Les Paul was there every Monday night with his band. Sweet people. Anyway, some girl seemed to be calling for her boss, asked if she could make a reservation for les Paul. The french plural for Paul. I couldn't help spitting all over the phone and reservation book from laughing so suddenly. Then I felt awful for this poor thing. I did apologize.

[Suzanne F]

Right.

But it IS pronounced in vichyssoise and nicoise. In fact, between those two words there are 2 ess sounds and 2 zee sounds.

[Chad]

Why is it that when French people mispronounce English words, we think it's cute or charming, but when Americans mispronounce French words, we think it's a mark of stupidity?

An excellent point, one missed in all the chortling about how hipper-than-thou we are (myself included). I assume that most of us have had some high school/college French or have dined with those more knowledgeable than we are, filing away those pronunciations for later use. I know that there have been many words I'd seen written but never heard pronounced. I'd been hesitant to use them until I heard someone whose judgement I trusted use them.

Oddly enough, "sommelier" falls into that category.

Other commonly mispronounced words:

Forte -- it ain't fort-ay unless you want someone to play more loudly. It's "fort." Check. I'll wait.

Behemoth -- Bee-em-oth, not bu-heee-muth.

Chad

Edited to add a comment in regard to English words being mispronounced in a French accent. I recall a hysterically funny Carol Leiffer bit a while back -- "Why is it that when european women don't shave it's sexy, when I don't it's birth control?"

CW

Edited November 6, 2003 by Chad (log)

[Mark Sommelier]

Varmint will be familiar with the North Carolina town of Fayetteville. He will probably back me up when I assert that the inhabitants of this town pronounce it "FED-vul".

When I wish to disembark from a bus or elevator, I signal that wish with "going out!".

Cheers,

Squeat

That's like the folks in Philadelphia who refer to their city as "Fluffya", and those in Baltimore with "Balmer". Here in DC it is pronounced "Warshington".

Here's another free tip: Chateau Trotanoy, one of my favorite Pomerols, is pronounced "Trote-tan-nwah". Similarly, Savoy = Sah-vwah.

Carry on.

[jacquichan]

Am I the only one who finds the correction of the pronounciation of foie gras less excruciating than the explanation of what the dish actually is. To the un-initiated a dish of goose or duck liver that is " pumped" to 90% fat and then......by the time I hit the word liver most people have already decided it can be nothing less than disgusting. Lately I have been trying to describe sauteed fois gras as an ambrosia akin to fried butter.

[Mark Sommelier]

Am I the only one who finds the correction of the pronounciation of foie gras less excruciating than the explanation of what the dish actually is. To the un-initiated a dish of goose or duck liver that is " pumped" to 90% fat and then......by the time I hit the word liver most people have already decided it can be nothing less than disgusting. Lately I have been trying to describe sauteed fois gras as an ambrosia akin to fried butter.

You probably don't want to hear how ortolans are "prepared" either, then.

[Jason Perlow]

Am I the only one who finds the correction of the pronounciation of foie gras less excruciating than the explanation of what the dish actually is. To the un-initiated a dish of goose or duck liver that is " pumped" to 90% fat and then......by the time I hit the word liver most people have already decided it can be nothing less than disgusting. Lately I have been trying to describe sauteed fois gras as an ambrosia akin to fried butter.

You probably don't want to hear how ortolans are "prepared" either, then.

We are not doing ortolans again.

or a third time.

[Mark Sommelier]

Am I the only one who finds the correction of the pronounciation of foie gras less excruciating than the explanation of what the dish actually is. To the un-initiated a dish of goose or duck liver that is " pumped" to 90% fat and then......by the time I hit the word liver most people have already decided it can be nothing less than disgusting. Lately I have been trying to describe sauteed fois gras as an ambrosia akin to fried butter.

You probably don't want to hear how ortolans are "prepared" either, then.

We are not doing ortolans again.

or a third time.

Yikes, Jason. I would never have mentioned it if I had seen all that. I would like to add my favorite ortolan story, though. In the 80's, I worked for Jean-Louis Palladin. He used to smuggle the birds into the US in his raincoat. One evening, the entire restaurant was bought out by Les Dames D'Escoffier, a professional food related women's group. Jean-Louis gamely announced that he had 30 ortolans to send out if they were interested (there were 50 people at the dinner). All the hands went up. After giving the eating instructions, the birds went out. Virtually none of the ladies followed the instructions to put the bird in the mouth whole. Rather, they tried to take the little breast filets off the bone with fork and knife. 3 people ate the whole bird, the rest went back to the kitchen looking like cats had been scratching on them. J-L learned a big lesson that night.

[Bux]

Houston (Hewston) TX is named after General Sam Houston, the commander at the battle of San Jacinto where Texas won its independence from Mexico with the defeat of Santa Anna's army.

I dunno about the New York guy.

Sam was clearly the more famous of the two. His first name is more widely known and he got a whole city named after him as well as streets in Dallas and other Texas cities. Most of us remember the Alamo, but few remember the Bayard estate.

From Houston Street: New York Songlines.

Pronounced HOW-ston, not HYOO-ston, because that's apparently the way the guy it's named for,  William Houstoun, pronounced  his name. Houstoun, a lawyer, was a delegate from Georgia to both the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention.  So how does that get him a street named after him in New York City? It doesn't--the street is named for him because he married Mary Bayard, whose father Nicholas Bayard was the landowner who first cut this street through his own estate.

A bit odd that they didn't get the spelling right. Bayard himself has a street further downtown in Chinatown named for him or his family. The Bayard name is also attached to a building one block north of Houston Street. The Bayard Building was designed by Louis Sullivan. It's his only buidling in NYC and not really one of his best.

[Bux]

That's like the folks in Philadelphia who refer to their city as "Fluffya"

The waiters at Georges Perrier's restaurant refer to it as "le beck fin" as if it were part of a fish. I suppose if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Hobbes]

Nola-

I have pronounced foie gras properly, but I've totally botched most of the other french words.  Could someone start listing the correct pronunciation for all the french words listed in this thread.  It would be very helpful to us derelicts.  Thanks in advance.

I am in the same situation and me not being a suave frenchman with correct pronunciation to boot I consulted the online version of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary to get the correct phonetic spelling of these words along with an audio clip of the word being spoken. Found it to be a big help.

This is what I found for each word's phonetic spelling and audio clip:

(1)Foie gras- Pronunciation: fwä-'grä

(2)prix fixe- Pronunciation: 'prE-'fEks, -'fiks

(3) vichyssoise- Pronunciation: "vi-shE-'swäz, "vE-

(4)mille-feuille- Pronunciation A: mEl-'fwE

Pronunciation B: mEl-f[oe]y

(5) Montrachet- Pronunciation: "mO n-trä-'she

(6) sommelier- Pronunciation: "s&-m&l-'yA

Without a guide to Pronunciation Symbols I would have no idea how to read the phonetic spellings above so I added one off the Merriam-Webster Dictionary so at least I can understand my post.

Here is a guide to pronouncing french. I do not know how good it is because I do not speak a lick of French but going to the Webster Dictionary I did get some help to this sitcky problem.

Hobbes

Edited November 6, 2003 by Hobbes (log)

[Jonathan Day]

I don't know how to represent this phonetically, but both in France (Paris as well as the South) and in francophone Canada I have always heard the "t" in words like Montrachet and Montreal pronounced with the tiniest tap of the tongue on the palate. "Monrashay" doesn't quite capture it. Elision is not the same as omission.

[hjshorter]

Why is it that when French people mispronounce English words, we think it's cute or charming, but when Americans mispronounce French words, we think it's a mark of stupidity?

An excellent point, one missed in all the chortling about how hipper-than-thou we are (myself included). I assume that most of us have had some high school/college French or have dined with those more knowledgeable than we are, filing away those pronunciations for later use.

I took Latin in high school and college, which is of no help whatsoever in a restaurant setting. If I don't have someone with me who knows a little I usually ask for a pronunciation.

[elyse]

I don't know how to represent this phonetically, but both in France (Paris as well as the South) and in francophone Canada I have always heard the "t" in words like Montrachet and Montreal pronounced with the tiniest tap of the tongue on the palate. "Monrashay" doesn't quite capture it. Elision is not the same as omission.

I'm with you, but will investigate further.

[Varmint]

Varmint will be familiar with the North Carolina town of Fayetteville. He will probably back me up when I assert that the inhabitants of this town pronounce it "FED-vul".

When I wish to disembark from a bus or elevator, I signal that wish with "going out!".

Cheers,

Squeat

As it's the home of Fort Bragg, most people just refer to it as Fayette-Nam.

[Squeat Mungry]

I don't know how to represent this phonetically, but both in France (Paris as well as the South) and in francophone Canada I have always heard the "t" in words like Montrachet and Montreal pronounced with the tiniest tap of the tongue on the palate. "Monrashay" doesn't quite capture it. Elision is not the same as omission.

I'm not sure, but I think this is what is referred to linguistically as a glottal stop. The tongue literally shuts down what's being uttered for the briefest time.

This is from the Columbia Guide to Standard American English:

"Some British English dialects and some speakers of the Metropolitan New York City regional dialect replace the usual medial t sound in words such as bottle and water with a glottal stop, which closes off the column of air briefly (to form a stop) at the glottis, the space between the vocal cords in the throat. The phonetic symbol for a glottal stop is [i have no idea how to reproduce this symbol on eGullet. It looks kind of like a giant question mark with an underline.]"

Cheers,

Squeat

[Squeat Mungry]

Varmint will be familiar with the North Carolina town of Fayetteville. He will probably back me up when I assert that the inhabitants of this town pronounce it "FED-vul".

When I wish to disembark from a bus or elevator, I signal that wish with "going out!".

Cheers,

Squeat

As it's the home of Fort Bragg, most people just refer to it as Fayette-Nam.

[tommy]

Why is it that when French people mispronounce English words, we think it's cute or charming, but when Americans mispronounce French words, we think it's a mark of stupidity?

An excellent point, one missed in all the chortling about how hipper-than-thou we are (myself included). I assume that most of us have had some high school/college French or have dined with those more knowledgeable than we are, filing away those pronunciations for later use.

I took Latin in high school and college, which is of no help whatsoever in a restaurant setting. If I don't have someone with me who knows a little I usually ask for a pronunciation.

i took german.

[Varmint]

Why is it that when French people mispronounce English words, we think it's cute or charming, but when Americans mispronounce French words, we think it's a mark of stupidity?

An excellent point, one missed in all the chortling about how hipper-than-thou we are (myself included). I assume that most of us have had some high school/college French or have dined with those more knowledgeable than we are, filing away those pronunciations for later use.

I took Latin in high school and college, which is of no help whatsoever in a restaurant setting. If I don't have someone with me who knows a little I usually ask for a pronunciation.

i took german.

Ausgezeichnet!

[sherribabee]

This thread reminds me of my early days in college. The Midwesterners had never met any Easterners, and vice versa. So we sat around comparing how we said words like "orange" and "roof." As you can imagine, THEY said them wrong. 

Ahem.

You might notice that newscasters all speak with the midwestern non-accent. Or at least the central OH non-accent. I would take that to mean that it is the most non-accented way to speak American. So anyone who pronounces things differently from the newscasters is wrong.

I'll never get used to the Long Island accent. There's just something about hearing 'saw' pronounced 'soar' that makes me cringe.

[sherribabee]

I assume that most of us have had some high school/college French or have dined with those more knowledgeable than we are, filing away those pronunciations for later use.

I took Latin in high school and college, which is of no help whatsoever in a restaurant setting. If I don't have someone with me who knows a little I usually ask for a pronunciation.

I took Spanish and German. I couldn't pronounce a French word properly if my life depended upon it.

[Bux]

I have been told on good authority that the "t" in Montrachet wine is silent. That doesn't mean that Montrachet cheese is pronounced the same way. Names in France just don't follow any rules and it's quite common for Parisians to mispronounce names of towns all over France. Of course English is no better and American cities with European names as already referenced are another example of that sort of thing.

[Bux]

"Squeat Mungry" is the answer to the question, "jeetyet?"

[maggiethecat]

This thread reminds me of my early days in college. The Midwesterners had never met any Easterners, and vice versa. So we sat around comparing how we said words like "orange" and "roof." As you can imagine, THEY said them wrong. 

My mother summed this up best:

"Everyone has an accent except me."