Kinkead's

[Beachfan]

Steve Klc reports a falloff at one of my favorite restaurants.  I ate their twice and loved it.

Anyone have recent experience?

[Steve Klc]

Don't take it on my account Beachfan.  I'm not breaking any news; it's been a hot topic of discussion in print in DC for awhile--including a tepid endorsement in Tom Sietsema's dining guide two years ago and a public omission last year.  On the larger "Where to eat in DC" thread Robert Brown, Roger McShane and Damian all weighed in on their recent experiences.

Why don't you lead with what you liked on your last visits and why?  Possibly compare to other seafood cooking and overall restaurant experiences in other cities, like New York's Oceana, Citarella, Le Bernardin, et al if applicable.

[Malawry]

I cannot compare Kinkead's to the sorts of seafood restaurants Steve mentions, mostly because I am relatively new to eating seafood. However, I have dined there twice in the past year. Both experiences were ok but not exceptional and certainly not worth the expense that Kinkead's represents.

The first time I met two friends there and we got a table upstairs. I had the salmon duet. My memory is failing me here...I know one of the two salmons was small chunks of a salt-cured salmon with fresh dill and capers. I think the other one may have been a preserved salmon too, but I don't remember. It was okay but pricey. I remember wondering what the hullabaloo about the place was. But I'd spied the popular bar while on my way in, and thought I might return someday and sit at the bar and give it another shot.

I finally went back and sat at the bar just over a week ago. I ordered the lobster roll and a glass of wine. I ordered the roll mostly because I'd wanted to try one for some time, and Kinkead's is one of very few places in DC that has one on the menu. I enjoyed my messy sammich, which was chunks of lobster in a thin mayonnaise-based sauce (I think there was roasted red pepper pureed in there, and some chopped gherkin for texture) on a crusty roll. The fries were the passable shoestring sort. I thought the cup of slaw was okay but a little too heavy on the celery seed, and oversauced. I liked everything fine, but no aspect of my meal was outstanding, and even for lobster a $22 sandwich should be better than decent imo.

Also, the service at the bar sucked. Nobody could figure out where to hand out which plates. They started to give me somebody else's lobster roll...fortunately she spoke up when she saw that. The woman next to me was given the wrong soup and had to wait a long time for them to figure out she needed assistance. And I waited a reallllllllllly long time for the check...I should have been back at work in an hour, but it took me an hour and a half because I waited over 20 minutes for the freekin check. I mean, don't most solo diners who sit at the bar have limited time? The poor bartender was totally overwhelmed. They need at least one more person in there to mix drinks, pour wine, and take bar orders. The service at the table when I'd gone earlier was a little slow too, but not nearly as bad as the service at the bar.

I probably won't go back unless I'm with people who want to go there. I'd rather eat at Johnny's Half Shell anyday, even though Johnny's is not the same type of restaurant (it's much more casual and it's noisy, and the menu is somewhat Chesapeake-focused seafood as opposed to the dressier angle Kinkead's is attempting).

Has anybody tried Colvin Run Tavern yet? That's Bob Kinkead's new place, and Tom Sietsema (Post reviewer) had nice things to say about it.

[Steve Klc]

Malawry--you back from LA yet?  how'd you like the strange scene out there?

And I'd say Tom had a few nice things to say about Colvin Run.  Let's see--in one short but gushing review he managed to use the following--warmed, gleaning, delicate, fetching, decadent, delicious, velvety, ennobled, pristine, sparkling, gorgeous, sporting, buttery, hall-of-fame, enhanced, pumped-up, and irresistable.  My favorite bits of smoochy food-writer babble: the "food is at once bold, sophisticated, graciously free of gimmicks and quietly witty" and "comfort food with a point of view."  (Sounds like a try-out for Gourmet magazine or a pitch for next year's James Beard award nominations.  Catherine Reynolds and Jonathan Gold, call your agents.)

I wonder if that "point of view" might be unimaginative but certainly pricy power portions ladled with fat, oil and butter served up in a series of sterile law-firm-like environments?   We'll see.

A separate point--I'm starting to think Tom doesn't "get" fine dining in the same way I do--not that that is a problem, because our job as a reader is to react to what we read and then verify on our own, process it all through our own palates if you will. (I also think he could do a better job appreciating dessert or discussing pairing food with wine, integrating either element into his writing more, though he at least isn't obviously anti-wine or anti-dessert.) He's a fantastic writer, though, and clearly much more comfortable on the ethnic, inexpensive and moderate efforts.  The kind of cooking that one can embrace from reading books, Saveur magazine and other food writers.  He hasn't demonstrated to me that he is as aware of elite dining and elite chefs elsewhere, as in New York, Chicago, Paris and Spain, as he should be, and like Phyllis Richman before him, fails to serve his readership here somewhat by not being able to discuss knowledgeably what's going on elsewhere and how DC stands in comparison.  Perhaps that's inevitable given the number of underwhelming DC restaurants he has to eat at weekly, perhaps it's an inherent flaw, perhaps it's an unfair misperception on my part--but then that's where his travels will help him, where filing those Postcards from other cities will help, which he likely undertakes on his own dime.

Back to Kinkead's--Malawry it is just those sorts of restaurants--and the fantastic seafood restaurants that have sprung up from San Francisco to Philadelphia, that Kinkeads has to be compared to, given that some in the media presumes Kinkeads to--still--be one of the very best restaurants in the entire country (see recent Gourmet magazine ranking.)  My thoughts on this are in previous threads.

Fortunately, service and attentiveness can be evaluated independently, and I enjoyed devouring your post, as always.

[Wilfrid]

I ate there last September - lunch after visiting the extraordinary Clyfford Still show at the Hirschhorn.  Wild mushroom strudel with Smithfield ham, followed by a light, crunchy version of fritto misto.  Nice.  Very nice.  But the food and the style/decor did leave me puzzled as to why - as Steve KLC points out - Kinkead seems to be rated as one of the major destination restaurants in the nation's capital.  I would equally happily go back or not go back.  Nothing stunning about it at all.

[Malawry]

Yeah, I'm back. I didn't eat so well in LA but I knew that my time and options were necessarily limited by being with a person who has extensive food allergies and a four month old baby to accommodate. Check the thread Beachfan started on Leila's for my "halftime report." The rest of my thoughts are forthcoming.

I haven't checked this year's nominations, but I know Sietsema won at least one Beard nomination last year (I think it was for his steakhouse guide, but I'm not sure). I agree he doesn't really compare restaurants in DC to restaurants in other cities, but he does take a weekend trip somewhere once a month and write a "postcard" for the Travel section about places to check out in whatever town he visited. I wonder how well-travelled he was before he started doing that?

Finally, I'm in such early phases of my own food education that I can only compare among the places I've eaten...and I don't have the budget for many big-ticket meals. I write about eating out anyways because that's how I feel my way around, and how I organize my thoughts for future reference. I'd like to learn more about what people think makes for a good analysis of fine dining, and those discussions are a big part of why I enjoy eGullet. I find your comments on how to evaluate fine dining interesting, and always appreciate them.

[Damian]

I've always enjoyed Kinkead's.  The dishes might not be terribly imaginitive or exciting; but the fish is invariably fresh and well prepared and the atmosphere is the right version of high end casual that is suitable for dress-up or dress-down.  I've never had a bad meal there.  I recall one dish which was actually wonderful and very memorable - the fish stew.  Not a bouillabase, it was cream based.  Service was always reasonably knowledgeable and competent.  I also must confess that I've never picked up the check there - usually going for business dinners.  

Thus, while I can understand the criticism that it is overrated when called a national quality restaurant, I have never had a reason to doubt it as a quality option and a good night out.  I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to someone who wanted seafood in DC.  I think Kinkead's would fare well in NYC - it certainly wouldn't rank with the city's best, but it is still better than the majority of NY restaurants in its price range.  (Not sure if the same holds if one were to increase the price range to account for NYC location)  I've yet to try Le Bernardin, Oceana, Citarella (except as a fishmonger), nor even Cello for fish in NYC, so can't compare and not sure it is fair to, but I find Kinkead's to be a well-executed mid to high-end seafooder.

[jordyn]

My dinner at Kinkeads left me with the same sort of impression that Damian describes--good fish, not particularly inventive or memorable, but a fine option any time.  Certainly it's not one of the top few restaurants in the country.

I particularly enjoyed the time I ate brunch at Kinkeads, however.  I'm not usually a big fan on fish with breakfast type foods, but I think Kinkeads does an excellent job of matching fish with eggs, potatos and other morning flavors.

[Beachfan]

Thanks for the comments all.  I would write up my notes, but it's been too long for me to remember what I had. Perhaps I had dishes that had crab as an element in the sauce.  So many places do that poorly.  

I like the comfort quality of the fish, a style that seemed clearly American. Not overcooked, but hearty.  I would never compare it to Le Bernandin, for many reasons (style of cuisine, price, formality).

My service has always been impeccable, even when I brought my own wine.

I'll go back to satisfy my own curiousity.

[vengroff]

Kinkead's comes up from time to time in this forum. Some people love it, others find it decidedly overrated. I've now been, and I can see both arguments. Indeed, if I were predisposed to do so, I think I could easily write either a very favorable or relatively unfavorable review. I would have ample ammunition for either.

Kinkead's wasn't actually in my original plans, but Kaz Sushi Bistro's doors were already locked at 2:10pm. What to do? A quick dash around the corner to dine at the bar at Kinkead's, obviously.

The lunch menu has a lot of classic American fish dishes--things like chowders, crab cakes, lobster rolls, fish and chips, and oysters on the half shell. Is the food bold, forward-thinking, surprising, challenging or avant-garde? No, not at all. Is it well executed and genuinely tasty? Yes, with some minor exceptions on the execution end.

My lunch consisted of a selection of oysters on the half shell followed by seared halibut with dijon sauce, fingerling potatoes, and spinach. The oysters were fresh, smooth, briney, and well-shucked. They came with a classic mignonette, lemon, and cocktail sauce. The mignonette stood out, not so much for it's flavor as for its presentation. The shallots were chopped into all sorts of irregularly sized triangular shapes. No careful brunoise dice here. It was either done mechanically or by someone who failed knife skills 101. I know it's a small nit to pick, but this is the kind of lack of attention to detail that one should not find at this level of dining. It's only a matter of time until this lack of focus spreads to other aspects of the cuisine, where it can do more damage.

The halibut that followed was exceptional in every way. There was a hint of golden brown on the surface, and the center was tender, moist, and just flaking. It was exactly how this fish was meant to be cooked. The same could be said of the potatoes. The combination of spinach and mustard, one of my favorites, and admittedly a big part of why I ordered this dish, was fully up to my expectations. Nothing about the plate was complicated or fussy, everything was simply cooked to the exact standards required to get the most out of the ingredients. This is clearly the kind of cooking that Bob Kinkead made his name on.

The meal ended with an espresso, which was disappointingly luke warm. It had good strength, texture, and crema; it just wasn't hot. I suspect it was brewed properly but served in a cup that was previously cool.

So how can I summarize a meal like this? It didn't try to push any limits; instead it just took a simple plan and tried to execute it as flawlessly as possible. Had I only sampled the main dish, I would have said it had absolutely succeeded. However, there was sufficient lack of attention to detail elsewhere to live up to the billing of one of the absolute top tables in the area. I wouldn't say the flaws ruined the meal by any means. However, they were certainly not things that I would tolerate as a chef de cuisine or general manager of an establishment trying to compete at the highest level.

[Steve Klc]

Thanks for the current report Vengroff--I haven't been in a long while. But the bar, oysters and lunch would not be judged on the "dinner" scale would it, which is where reputations would be made and on which laurels a restaurant might be resting? Can you assess it with some context of price--power lunch pricing or something more value-oriented? I think it's tough and possibly unfair to ask someone to extrapolate from lunch to dinner--so you'll have to go for dinner as well!

Also, I'm intrigued by your "Is the food bold, forward-thinking, surprising, challenging or avant-garde" versus "well executed and genuinely tasty"--because to me there is a middle ground of well executed tasty food which also happens to be "interesting" or "creative" but that is not what I believe you mean when you say "bold, forward-thinking, surprising, challenging and avant-garde." Agree? If so, then push yourself to classify the Kinkead lunch as you observed it--was it leaning more toward the "well-executed but not that interesting"--on the safe, perfunctory or boring side or "well executed, simple yet interesting?"

Was the food itself--apart from service issues--in terms of conception, quality of ingredients, execution and price-point--worthy of a place alongside whichever chefs and restaurateurs would make your "highest level" list?

[Steve Plotnicki]

I have had two very good meals at Kinkead's but they were both at least 7-8 years ago. Has the menu/style of cooking changed or are they still serving the same thing and style they were serving seven years ago? When I was in D.C. over the holidays, I walked by and I looked at the menu and it appeared to be a little stuck in time.

[vengroff]

Thanks for the current report Vengroff--I haven't been in a long while.  But the bar, oysters and lunch would not be judged on the "dinner" scale would it, which is where reputations would be made and on which laurels a restaurant might be resting?

I agree. However, I expect a place that is tops for dinner to be able to put together a good lunch.

Can you assess it with some context of price--power lunch pricing or something more value-oriented?

Power lunch. There seemed to be a decent crowd of regulars willing to spend. For example, there was a group of mid to upper level diplomats from the Mexican embassy on the next block.

Lunch entrees started around $13 for light salady choices and went up to around $20. The halibut was $18. My guess would be that at dinner they are probably in the mid to upper 20's.

I think it's tough and possibly unfair to ask someone to extrapolate from lunch to dinner--so you'll have to go for dinner as well!

I'm just not sure I want to put up with the need to book so far in advance for prime times. There are plenty of other places in this town (Cashions, Poste, Zola,...) that I would like to try first.

Also, I'm intrigued by your "Is the food bold, forward-thinking, surprising, challenging or avant-garde" versus "well executed and genuinely tasty"--because to me there is a middle ground of well executed tasty food which also happens to be "interesting" or "creative" but that is not what I believe you mean when you say "bold, forward-thinking, surprising, challenging and avant-garde."  Agree?  If so, then push yourself to classify the Kinkead lunch as you observed it--was it leaning more toward the "well-executed but not that interesting"--on the safe, perfunctory or boring side or "well executed, simple yet interesting?"

I would say that the fish was definitely in the interesting and well executed camp, but not particularly creative. You could get more or less the same dish, though almost certainly not as perfectly executed, at an upper level chain like Legal or McCormick and Shmicks.

Was the food itself--apart from service issues--in terms of conception, quality of ingredients, execution and price-point--worthy of a place alongside whichever chefs and restaurateurs would make your "highest level" list?

No, not in this day and age. I doubt anything will change, since the place gets rave reviews and is filled every night. From my limited experience, it's just a place that really knows how cook a piece of fish. I think their target audience is people who like pretty standard American seafood dishes, and are willing to pay a little extra to have them done as expertly as they can be done. I'd never compare it to Le Bernardin or Oceana; they are seafood places, but they are looking to do something quite different and more creative than Kinkead's is.

Ah, now I know what it is. It's the all-seafood version of City Hall. I don't mean that in a bad way, because I like City Hall a lot for what it does.

I suppose at this point someone with a better background in recent American culinary history may claim that Bob Kinkead invented all this stuff, and Henry Meer and some corporate schlocks from Boston and Portland just ripped it off.

Edited March 29, 2003 by vengroff (log)

[Joe H]

Despite 20 to 25 visits to Kinkead's overthe past ten years and earlier visits to 21 Federal both here on L Street and New England I have never had an entree at lunch. I also believe there are some dishes that he has which are extraordinarily good by Washington standards and excellent even by Boston standards.

Basics such as whole bellied fried clams, lobster rolls, clam chowder are exemplery and the equal of what you will find in Essex, Kittery and Portland. The atmosphere is certainly lacking-sitting at a nondescript booth upstairs is not like Woodman's or the Clam Box. If you're going to dinner there, for me, it's a real negative; at times it's actually been a reason NOT to go. He made up for this at Tyson's with Colvin Run but that is also a very real problem.

It is the Tyson's restaurant which seems to have attracted his interest and creative efforts, at least for the past several years. And the strongest of those are not on the level of what he originaly accomplished downtown. Colvin Run is a very good suburban restaurant. But it is not on the level of the D. C. restaurant.

My real problem with Pennsylvania Avenue is what I consider the arrogance of his staff. Two seatings and little flexibility for a good time (7:30, 8:00) regardless of how many weeks in advance or how many in the party. They are insistent about 6:00 and 6:30 and 9: and 9:30. They are going for 300 or so meals a night and are going to make that no matter what.

Having said all this much of what he serves at dinner is excellent, some even outstanding. Ten years ago pepita crusted salmon was an outstanding dish. Having had it five or six times over the years it doesn't taste the same as the first time yet it's still excellent and still draws raves from those who have never had it before. He has some Pan Asian treatments of several stews and fish entrees that are just absolutely delicious as well as being truly creative. Dishes such as these reinforce his James Beard Award (s).

He also has several entrees which, over the years, I have regarded as truly disappointing. In fact you could go to Kinkead's, not knowing what to order and leave shaking your head. Combine this with the plain, "dull" dining rooms and the insistence on early and late meals and I suspect that quite a few people would never go back.

But if you're seated in the central dining room upstairs in front of the kitchen, are guided correctly through the menu I think this is only a step or two below Le Bernardin for taste. There is no one dish that he does that I would call a "great dish" on the level of the New York restaurant's best. For that matter several years ago we had dinner at Kinkead's 48 hours after returning from Paris where we had been to Ducasse, Astor and Violon d'Ingris. Of course Kinkead's didn't match the best of these. Of course. But it wasn't as big of a step down as I might have otherwise thought for some of what he serves.

I also understand that he has slipped a bit since Colvin Run opened. Your comments are reason enough to justify a new visit and see if the strengths are still there.

[vengroff]

What's the most overrated place in the DC area? This question is a follow-up on an exchange that took place on Tom Sietsema's most recent Ask Tom chat on washingtonpost.com.

Here is the exchange from that site:

Washington, D.C.: What is the most overrated eatery in the area?

Tom Sietsema: Hint: It has eight letters in its name.

Overrated Eatery: Does it begin with a K and end in an 'S? Or does it begin with a G and end in an O?

Tom Sietsema: Hmmmmmmmm.

What are your thoughts?

Interesting side note: later in the chat Tom praised Laboratorio.

[Steve Klc]

Well, praise for Laboratorio is not praise for Galileo, is it? I think Tom's track record on Kinkeads has also been very clear to Post readers who follow his chat regularly: he's been underwhelmed for some time and left it out of his Dining Guide. Not that Tom's ethos for the Guide necessarily recognizes "the best," it doesn't; the Guides represent "his favorites." Apples and oranges. Also, it is important to remember Tom absolutely loved Colvin Run Tavern.

For me, this just re-affirms how the Post leads the way in terms of embracing new opportunities which online media affords. You tune in week after week because Tom sharply reveals some of his personality, is unafraid to dish some newsy, insiderish, even catty comments--and these chats help keep everybody honest and everybody up-to-date--in and outside the industry. They are archived and accessible alongside past reviews. Contrast this with the critic of the New York Times, who allows dulled five year old reviews of that town's four star restaurants to stand on its website as its most up-to-date info or the predictably mailed-in and behind-the-times feel of reviews by a Shoffner in the Washingtonian.

Steve Shaw commented on Sietsema here:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...T&f=34&t=17886&

[otm]

I agree that Sietsema's always been very clear in his views of Kinkead's. But why then is he so much in love with Johnny's Half Shell, to which many of the same complaints apply? Johnny's isn't nearly as consistent or creative as it once was, service can be downright rude, and portions are notoriously small for the prices. Yet a week rarely goes by without it being recommended as one of DC's best.

[Steve Klc]

I agree somewhat otm. I have zero tolerance for service issues and if I were you I wouldn't hesitate to e-mail Sietsema to report rude ones if you could not get satisfaction bumping your problem up the chain of command within the restaurant . I think there might be several factors worth exploring which might take Tom off the hook--it is at that moderate price point, as long as he doesn't go around saying what a great value it is, he's ok; some critical appreciation of it might mingle with Cashion's Eat Place, a better restaurant with higher aims and with (I think) impeccable service, and, who do you think is doing much better work in town in that safe, accessible, not too expensive "American comfort" niche? That's why it might be recommended as best in its category and style. (Of course, our dining scene is over-saturated with this kind of "American comfort" cooking.) I don't know about you--but I do cut moderately-priced restaurants more slack than those "aiming" for the four-star level with prices to match. That's where some of the usual suspects--Kinkeads among them--take the more deserved hit. Another factor to consider--there is widespread praise for Ann Cashion within the food writer community for a lot of reasons--don't forget she was nominated for the Beard award alongside Todd and Jose and Peter Pastan for Best Chef Mid-Atlantic. The lead reviewer from Washingtonian magazine, Robert Shoffner, is very very enamoured of her abilities as well. This stuck in my mind from his review of Zaytinya:

"Although it opened last October, Zaytinya has yet to achieve the impressive performance that distinguished Jaleo during its opening weeks. At that time, Andrés's energies were not divided among two other restaurants, and he shared command of Jaleo's kitchen with the perfectionist Ann Cashion. In time, Zaytinya may develop into a restaurant as consistently praiseworthy as Jaleo, but for now, it vies for the chef's attention with Café Atlántico and the two Jaleos."

So, as far as Johnny's Half Shell is concerned, I think Tom's off the hook. There's no room left ON the hook. However, if diners like you keep e-mailing him and keep questioning him, would you agree he listens and reacts and advocates on behalf of readers? Remember, Kinkeads was praised in Sietsema's 2000 Dining Guide. No more. While Kinkead's is still being lauded by Shoffner as an elite four star experience in the most recent Best Restaurant issue.

[vengroff]

I think I finally have a cogent theory as to what the deal is with Kinkead's and DC. It's only been beaten into my head by dozens of other posts in this forum, but I finally appreciate it. The revelation occurred, strangely enough, not at Kinkead's, but at the oyster bar of its perennial challenger for the number one most requested table on opentable.com, Old Ebbitt's.

How could that have happened? Well, here's how:

Old Ebbitt's pumps out crab cakes, oysters, shrimp cocktail, fried calamari, grilled fish of various species, and all the other standard American seafood dishes. The place isn't awful; I had some issues, but they're not really worth going into here. What is worth discussing is that if you walk around the dining room, you'll see that most of the peoples' plates have a big pile of fries on them.

Why do fries matter? I have nothing against a good french fry, but there is no arguing that they are about the simplest, cheapest, and easiest side dish any kitchen can produce. Now, suppose you want to climb up the traditional local food chain a bit and pay a few dollars for your dinner. What's the first thing that happens? There won't be radical new dishes. You'll still see crabcakes on the menu. But you will get something other than fries as a default side dish. You may, in fact, get a choice of several. Perhaps, as you move up the ladder, you will even find that certain main dishes are specifically paired with sides chosen to match their flavors. As you take these steps, the quality of the raw ingredients and the attention to how they are prepared will probably improve too. But, no matter how many steps you take, you are not going to make a dramatic culinary leap to something fundamentally different than your fish and fries at Old Ebbitt's. Chances are that if you like Old Ebbitt's, you won't be at risk of dropping big dollars and being thoroughly disappointed.

Finally, when you've gone as far as you can go, you are at Kinkead's, or perhaps Kinkead's as it once was. If you don't want to be seriously challenged, that's it; it's the end of the line. The fact that everyone else is waiting weeks for a table only confirms that it is the place to go for that most special occasion or big deal dinner. So you join the queue, and go with the rest of them.

So, am I on to something here, or am I missing the boat completely. Is there some other dynamic at work that I have yet to discover?

[otm]

Thanks Steve, you raise a couple of excellent points in your response to my gripes about Johnny's. I concede I hadn't considered the slim competition in the niche Johnny's aims for. And I certainly agree with you about Cashion's - which I've always found to deserve its high praise. I'm willing to let Tom s. off the hook - he has his biases (who doesn't?), but he's doing a great job (much better than Shoffner, for my 2 cents), and he certainly does listen to readers!

What other places, in your opinion, are doing a good job of "American comfort" food, at moderate prices? It seems to me that good "restaurant cities" like NY, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Seattle, have neighborhood places like Evening Star or next-tier places like Cashion's and the Majestic Cafe all over town, but I don't know many here.

[Steve Klc]

otm--first, this category is huge, we're over-saturated with new American comfort cooking in this area--I think the issue, though, is it's just so tough to maintain a compelling restaurant with "moderate" pricing like Evening Star. Any restaurant. At the moderate price point you're more likely to find way more interesting food at Jaleo or Lebanese Taverna or ethnic, no?

Based on meals in the past year or two, here's how I'd rank moderate and expensive local restaurants in this "new American comfort" niche:

Jay Comfort when he was at Bistro 309

Vidalia

tie--Grapeseed/ Majestic Cafe

Equinox

tie--Cashion's Eat Place/1789/DC Coast/Carlyle Grand

I would have had a tough time choosing overall between Susan Lindeborg when she cooked at Morrison-Clark and Jay Comfort when he cooked at Bistro 309 in Fredericksburg--both offered complete confident consummate experiences with no holes.

Some caveats: I'm not the best or necessarily reliable source on this. I don't choose to eat in this niche too often, certainly not often enough to keep up with changes over time, as you can see my list is weighted toward new American that might be less overtly comfort and a little more refined in presentation. I loathe the huge entree power dining places. I loathe typical conservative DC cooking. Maybe I expect too much imagination even in my comfort food. I don't like boring food. I also weight some moderately priced restaurants higher and downgrade some expensive restaurants for a variety of factors: because I value "value," I value the chef in the restaurant though not necessarily cooking, service, attitude and the complete restaurant experience rather than just the reputation of the food or chef, fair wine pricing and interesting wines. I hold expensive local restaurants to a national standard not local.

Restaurant Seven--when it opened was wonderful--we ate there a bunch of times and it was a breath of really fresh air in this niche. Then they went and screwed it up. But that's old news. They don't make the list.

And I have not eaten at Corduroy, Chef Geoff's, Greenwood, or Palena, nor at any of Grapeseed's new American competitors in Bethesda, like Blacks, Persimmon, it's just not my scene. I live in Virginia. But they all would be in this niche as well and you should try them. I've heard very good things about them. Haven't been to Zola or Poste since chef changes but plan to soon. I'm sure there are some I am forgetting and I apologize in advance.

So that's where you need to rely on a professional critic you trust initially, a critic you take the time to understand, to tell you how to put all these places in context--because he's been to all of them. Then you need some friends to keep him honest over time and report changes in his weekly online chat. And then you go to all these places anyway with an open mind and make up your own mind.

[otm]

Thanks again, Steve. Your knowledge of the local restaurant scene is one of the greatest assets of this forum. I'm looking forward to trying a few more of your suggestions.

And forgive me for going off-topic, but I've also got to thank you for your food - last night at Zaytinya I got around to trying dessert there for the first time! Wow!

[hjshorter]

And I have not eaten at Corduroy, Chef Geoff's, Greenwood, or Palena, nor at any of Grapeseed's new American competitors in Bethesda, like Blacks, Persimmon, it's just not my scene.  I live in Virginia.  But they all would be in this niche as well and you should try them.

If you want another place across the river, I would add Addie's in Rockville, unless something has gone terribly wrong there in the last year. Black's is a spinoff (for lack of a better word) from Addie's. We've had some fine meals there.

[Zeb A]

I ate here on Friday night with three others. This was probably the third or fourth time that I have been to Kinkead's. As with the other times, I really enjoyed my meal on all levels. I think the food is very good, and, for a high end restaurant, I appreciate the semi-relaxed atmosphere. Everyone I was with also enjoyed their meal.

Unfortunately, the next night we went to Jaleo. Now, the two restaurants are so different that it is almost impossible to fairly compare them. But, we spent $350 at Kinkead's and maybe $150 at Jaleo. We enjoyed the food at Jaleo as much or more than the food at Kinkead's and enjoyed the overall experience just as much or more. I am not at all criticizing Kinkead's, because I like it quite a bit, but the price contrast was pretty stark.

[liamdc]

From yesterday's Washington Post in case you missed it...

GETTING A NEW LOOK: The last day of December will be the last meal served by Kinkead's (2000 Pennsylvania Ave. NW; 202-296-7700) before it closes for a major renovation. The two-level seafood restaurant is "very worn after 10 years," explains spokeswoman Mimi Schneider. The million-dollar makeover, orchestrated by restaurant designer Russell Stillwell of Next Step Design and architect Jim Ritter, will focus on both the kitchen and the dining areas; executive chef Jerry Cousson, promoted to the top cooking job in October, is working with owner BobKinkead to nudge the menu in some fresh directions, too. With an eye on one of the year's biggest dining occasions, "We're hoping to reopen by Valentine's Day," says Schneider. Not every corner of the restaurant is scheduled for change. "My basement office will still be the same -- unless I redo it," jokes Schneider.

-- Tom Sietsema