Decanters

[Jesse]

I just bought a decanter. It is certainly a bottom of the line model purchased at a discount store for single digit dollars. But it is crystal. From what I have read here and there it doesn’t seem like the quality of a decanter really matters all that much. Is this true? What does matter in a decanter? And why do people fork over triple digit dollars for fancy ones?

And while I'm on the subject, any other ideas about decanting anyone would like to share?

[GordonCooks]

I just bought a decanter. It is certainly a bottom of the line model purchased at a discount store for single digit dollars. But it is crystal. From what I have read here and there it doesn’t seem like the quality of a decanter really matters all that much. Is this true? What does matter in a decanter? And why do people fork over triple digit dollars for fancy ones?

And while I'm on the subject, any other ideas about decanting anyone would like to share?

As long as it aerates the wine properly and is pourable - you're fine. I've used simple round bottomed, glass pitchers as well as my Reidel or Spiegelau decanters with good results. Try a search via the word "decant" - there have been quite a few discussions here and here

[cmben]

To decant or not to decant. That is the question. As Gordon Cook said, he sometimes uses a pitcher. A fancy crystal decanter is impressive but it all goes back to function. The pitcher, the decanter it's pretty much the same, it's really a matter of asthectics.

The idea is to areate the wine. Young wines often are the best candidates for decanting as it allows off odors to blow off and helps to bring out some flavors. There are on the market funnels that are designed for maximun arreation.

In decanting older wines the purpose is to separate the sediment from the wine leaving clear wine. Again there are specialized funnels on the marklet with screens that assist in keeping the sediment out.

The old idea of opening a bottle and "letting it breathe" is really not very effective. The surface area is about the size of a dime. The better route is, if you can, pour a glass, swirl it then sample it. The let it rest in the glass for 10-20 minutes and taste again. You will be surprised how the wine has changed. Obviously all of this is for red wines. Very, very seldom have I seen white wines decanted.

[tjaehnigen]

I break out the fancy ones for dinner parties. I use a simple ceramic pitcher when it is just Mrs. TJ and I.

For younger wines, I prefer to splash decant and pour in the glass.

I have, on rare occasion, decanted whites, too -- usually higher end chards.

[Jesse]

Just what is splash decanting? I have noticed this term, particularly in your posts tjaehnigen.

[Phil Ward]

"Just what is splash decanting? I have noticed this term, particularly in your posts "

Splash decanting is when you vigorously pour the wine in the decanter allowing the wine to truly aerate. If the wine is young, I also swirlo it around and up and down to allow the wine to really get some "air". It will never achieve the same goal as 5-10-15-20 years in the cellar but it seems to open the wine a bit more than gently pouring the wine into the decanter as you would for an older wine that has thrown some particulate matter.

[ctgm]

I have, on rare occasion, decanted whites, too -- usually higher end chards.

Good but why on rare occasions? I don't decant my whites as I don't often drink them, but they act pretty much in the same way as a red and benefit from being opened up. However as most of us drink our whites far too cold, decanting it seems pointless.

[Scott]

For younger wines, I prefer to splash decant and pour in the glass.

If you really want to bruise the fruit, you could always use a blender

[Mark Sommelier]

"Just what is splash decanting? I have noticed this term, particularly in your posts "

Splash decanting is when you vigorously pour the wine in the decanter allowing the wine to truly aerate. If the wine is young, I also swirlo it around and up and down to allow the wine to really get some "air". It will never achieve the same goal as 5-10-15-20 years in the cellar but it seems to open the wine  a bit more than gently pouring the wine into the decanter as you would for an older wine that has thrown some particulate matter.

I have also heard this referred to as Power Decanting.

[redwinegulper]

I have a few fancy decanters, but my favorite is a simple glass pitcher typically used for iced tea.

[Carema]

I am usually the first store on the rep route because I routinely schedule stuff in the AM as not to interfere with business. Plus paranoid conspiracy theorist that I am, I like to have the bottles opened in front of me. When young wines that a) are not pinot noir & b) are not pinot noir, are not ready and are very closed, I do the Funnel Thing. It goes like this: Yes- get the ice tea pitcher out of the back room and spank the baby vino like ketchup so it glugs into Mr Ice T. Let it stay there for a few minutes while chatting or tasting other things. Grab the plastic funnel. Funnel it sloppily back into the bottle from whenst it came. Listen to track #4 on Big Star's first album. Spank decant again. Sing to the wine, "Will you be an outlaw for my love?" (see Big Star reference). Taste. You can really open up things in such a manner. I would never submit an elder wine to such a show however. This is just for the very young. Save the blender for Magharitas. We wouldn't want the wine to get post traumatic stress disorder.

[Bill Klapp]

Splash decanting works fine, but, as noted above, you would not want to do it with a fragile older wine or a younger wine that had already thrown sediment. In the latter case, you can, of course, decant to clear the sediment and then swirl in the decanter. I disagree with Scott, in that there is no fruit left to bruise in a finished wine. You can damage a wine in many ways, but not by bruising. That ends when grapes become wine. If, however, an older burgundy is going to give you only a brief hint of nose and taste before turning to alcohol water, then the splash/swirl approach is sure to kill what little pleasure may have been possible.

[Scott]

Splash decanting works fine, but, as noted above, you would not want to do it with a fragile older wine or a younger wine that had already thrown sediment.  In the latter case, you can, of course, decant to clear the sediment and then swirl in the decanter.  I disagree with Scott, in that there is no fruit left to bruise in a finished wine.  You can damage a wine in many ways, but not by bruising.  That ends when grapes become wine.  If, however, an older burgundy is going to give you only a brief hint of nose and taste before turning to alcohol water, then the splash/swirl approach is sure to kill what little pleasure may have been possible.

Bill,

couple of things, aside from the semantics of terminology, what are you damaging when you decant an older wine?

Also, why is it that the Burgundians recommend you NEVER decant young red burgundy?

[Bill Klapp]

Scott, in the old Burgundy example I gave, the problem is that the wine is barely wine to begin with. If it is handled delicately, it might give a moment's pleasure, taste and aroma. However, even without the vigorous decanting, such a wine would not likely last long if merely poured. In such a case, it is the exposure to air which causes the decline. Splashing and swirling merely hastens the demise. With other old wines, the same theory holds true, but with a less delicate wine, there is improvement rather than destruction. Exposure to air eliminates off-putting bottle aromas, and allows the flavor and aroma of the wine to emerge. Less delicate wines, such as Bordeaux, Cabs, the bigger Rhone wines and Barolos, often need considerable exposure to air before they show well. In those cases, the splash and/or swirl techniques do the wine no harm, but instead, hasten the wine's achievement of optimal drinking condition. I haven't heard the Burgundian dictum about not decanting young Burgundy, although many people are of the view that one should NEVER decant Burgundy, because of its delicacy. I rarely decant Burgundy for that reason. Its pleasures are often too ephemeral to make any aeration a good thing.

[Scott]

Scott, in the old Burgundy example I gave, the problem is that the wine is barely wine to begin with.  If it is handled delicately, it might give a moment's pleasure, taste and aroma.  However, even without the vigorous decanting, such a wine would not likely last long if merely poured.  In such a case, it is the exposure to air which causes the decline.  Splashing and swirling merely hastens the demise.  With other old wines, the same theory holds true, but with a less delicate wine, there is improvement rather than destruction.  Exposure to air eliminates off-putting bottle aromas, and allows the flavor and aroma of the wine to emerge.  Less delicate wines, such as Bordeaux, Cabs, the bigger Rhone wines and Barolos, often need considerable exposure to air before they show well.  In those cases, the splash and/or swirl techniques do the wine no harm, but instead, hasten the wine's achievement of optimal drinking condition.  I haven't heard the Burgundian dictum about not decanting young Burgundy, although many people are of the view that one should NEVER decant Burgundy, because of its delicacy.  I rarely decant Burgundy for that reason.  Its pleasures are often too ephemeral to make any aeration a good thing.

Bill,

thanks but I knew the answer, that was my point for questioning the absolute authority of your post.

For many people, ESPECIALLY the burgundians, decanting young wine damages the aromatics and the quality of fruit in the wine. If you were not aware of this, yet know many people think that, have you thought where it originates?

Now I agree this is not true of all styles, but I know of NO wine that benefits from a vigourous shaking or decanting, swirl yes, shake no. This stuff is delicate, and what you are advocating is akin to replicating the travel sickness that excessive vibration in transit causes on a bottle of wine, young or old.

I'm not sure i see how the relative oxidisative curves of young vs old wine is part of this equation.

[Phil Ward]

"Now I agree this is not true of all styles, but I know of NO wine that benefits from a vigourous shaking or decanting, swirl yes, shake no. This stuff is delicate, and what you are advocating is akin to replicating the travel sickness that excessive vibration in transit causes on a bottle of wine, young or old.

"

I disagree that a vigourous shake does not aid a young wine. The problem I find with many young red wines, especially Cab based, is they have too much CO2 and they need a bit of shaking to get that stuff out and let the wine open up a bit. I do not shake for a long period, just a few seconds. It does seem to aid these young wines. That having been written, 9 times out of 10, I just splash decant young reds especially those that are Cab blends, Zins, Syrah etc. I never seem to need it for Pinots. although decanting a young Pinot for a few minutes does seem to open them a bit.

All of the above, just my $.02

[Carema]

but I know of NO wine that benefits from a vigourous shaking or decanting, swirl yes, shake no. This stuff is delicate, and what you are advocating is akin to replicating the travel sickness that excessive vibration in transit causes on a bottle of wine, young or old.

Apparently you did not have a young Backward and Forward, courtesy of our pal Manfred K of SQN. The abuse that wine could take-- and then it opened like a flower, a delicate honeysuckle in bloom hit over the head with a skillet of toasted almonds. I disagree with you- I think a lot of wine is tough and can take it. Especially in its youth.

[Lancelot]

I'm looking through Emile Peynauds' book The taste of Wine (first published in 1983 and translated to English in 1986).

Page 240 under the heading When To Decant. "Only bottles which have sediment need to be decanted".

Then on page 242 "Two last rules suffice to guard against any mistakes in ecanting.First;if it is necessary to decant,it should be done at the last moment,just before sitting down or just before serving,never in advance. Finally (in exceptional cases):only wines suffering from some fault(for example lack of cleanness on the nose, the presence of some gas, a little thinness in constitution)warrent decanting sufficiently in advance to allow for plenty of contact with air".

Mr Peynaud seems to believe in his writings that decanting for any other reason than to remove sediment or blow off bad stuff(my technical term) was/is scientifically indefensible. Now I will be the first to admit that I enjoy the act of decanting wines, particularly old port. But has any one come up with any empirical evidence in the last 20 years to disprove Mr Peynaud's assertion?

Edited September 4, 2003 by Lancelot (log)

[Carema]

Who needs empirical evidence? Taste a tight young wine. Decant it. Taste it again. In most instances decantation will improve & open the wine. We could do a study I guess. We could do it online. We could input the data into an excel spreadsheet. I think 1983 is the key here. Winemaking has changed a lot since then. And (because I am not familiar with the text) was he referring to all the wine in the world??? Plus Monsiuer Peynaud probably never had Backward & Forward.

[Bill Klapp]

I remain in the "splash decant" and "swirl" camps when warranted, but I agree that "shake" goes too far in all cases (except, of course, Bond's "shaken, not stirred" martini). Peynaud's advice is over-generalized foolishness. I assume that he never consumed a young Northern Rhone or Cabernet-based wine.

[Gus]

As a complete amateur, who's just starting to be interested in wine, can i ask something?

Is there any reasonable rule of thumb? Like "for wines less than four years old, open the bottle an hour before drinking, which runs very little risk of harming the taste and a fair chance of improving it"?

[owzer]

It all boils down to what gives you the most drinking pleasure. Some people like it filtered & without any sediments. I know of a couple of guys who love sediment in their wines. Go figure. Some people like primary flavours with tons of fruit. Some people like dirt and poop. What I am saying is that there is no right or wrong when it comes to the issue of decanting. As long as you maximise value from your wine, who is to judge?

General rule of thumb for decanting, though. If you don't enjoy sediment, try standing up the bottle 24 prior to serving. This is especially true for older wines or young unfiltered wines as they both have a perpensity to throw sediment. Decanting is often easier when the sediments are at the bottom of the bottle.

If there is no sediment or you do not mind some in your vino, then pour a glass and have a sip. Great if you like the taste. If you don't, try decanting the whole bottle. As discussed above, decanting adds air into the equation thereby starting an irreversible chemical reaction. Most times it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Hope that helps.