Corking Fee

[davidthomas8779]

I was at a restaurant in rural Georgia in a dry county (or a dry part of a wet county, I forget which backwards concept it was) and the restaurant I was having dinner at charged me a $3 corking fee. That struck me as a ridiculous amount to charge (I was expecting at least $10). What do restaurants in civilization charge for corking?

[Craig Camp]

Here are some figures from Napa Click Here

$3? Sounds like they weren't using Reidel.

[Mark Sommelier]

Please don't get me started on this topic.

[Dave the Cook]

Well, to give you an example of nearby civilization, I paid $6 a bottle at a restaurant in Toco Hills (an Atlanta neighborhood) last September. I also thought I was being undercharged, but the proprietor was actually a little shy about it. No Riedel -- try Libbey.

I'm really interested in the restaurant side of corkage and how it's calculated. Arie you don't want to participate here, MarK? Or at least tell us why it's a sore subject?

[tommy]

3 bucks? perhaps that's all they were making on their bottles to begin with?

[davidthomas8779]

3 bucks?  perhaps that's all they were making on their bottles to begin with?

They wish they made $3. They are in a dry county and are therefore not allowed to sell alcohol. That pesky amendment repealing Prohibition doesn't prevent local Puritans from having their own.

[Mark Sommelier]

Dave said:

I'm really interested in the restaurant side of corkage and how it's calculated. Arie you don't want to participate here, MarK? Or at least tell us why it's a sore subject?

Greetings Dave and All.

Before I begin this explanation I will don the flame-proof suit. There are many prefaces to this answer. It might help if everyone would read the Corkage thread in the California folder. Craig was helpful in posting a recent article about this subject. I will begin by saying that I work in a very special restaurant. We do not allow wine to be brought in. I have been in the restuarant business for more than 30 years. The chef I work for is not merely good, he is great. He is also French. His reference points are the 3 star restaurants in France. No one would think about bringing a bottle of wine to Alain Ducasse or Pierre Gagniare's. My chef thinks that should apply here also. I can't disagree. Years ago, the etiquette of bringing wine to restaurants was this: buy an expensive bottle, bring an expensive bottle. The BYOB guys no longer believe this. (How many of you read Mark Squire's bulletin board on Robert Parker's website http://erobertparker.com ?) The business of a restaurant is to provide (ie: sell) food and wine. In my particular case, I carry a $350,000 inventory. In addition, we buy several hundred dozen glasses a year. Dishwashers here are paid $11 an hour. Our tableclothes cost $88 a piece and have to be ordered 20 dozen at a time!! Wine is a "profit center". The food in my restaurant is very expensive (basic menu is prix fixe $75 for 3 courses). There are 12 cooks preparing this food for the 90 seats in the place. The payroll is staggering. We used to charge corkage several years ago. It only created problems. How much is too much? The BYOB guys like to show up with 12 or more bottles. 8 guys at a table with 12 bottles on a busy night is a nightmare. 12 bottles represents a considerable amount of lost revenue. Are you following me so far? In addition, a portion of my income comes from commission. I work hard to provide an interesting winelist and good wine service. The margins in a restaurant are not large. Before this turns into a rant, I'll leave it here and try to field any more questions that might arise as best I can.

[redwinegulper]

Mark, you make a valid point. I think so many people abused the system, therefore I think you have no choice. I think if someone has a special bottle for a special occasion...then cook up a great meal at home and enjoy it. Otherwise it is fun to experiment off a wine list, just don't use excessive markups.

There is one exception to the above.....I will no longer go to one restaurant on Long Island because they have no corkage fee. It is a steak restaurant, but the owners are Greek and they only serve one Greek wine...I am real flexible but this stuff was horrible.

[beans]

I'm with Mark. I shudder everytime I view the WS Off Lines, which are fun without a doubt. However, if a restaurant does not permit a BYOB, then that restaurant is axed from the consideration list. Currently, I know of one that is being planned and in hopes of dupping the restaurant owner in allowing it to occur in a state that prohibits same. (okay, I know it happens, but the seriousness of the potential repercussions alarm me as I wouldn't ever want to be a part of a loss of business and/or liquor license).

I am of the belief that great time and thought is placed into selecting a wine list. So, if you wish to eat there, order their wine. If you wish to drink your wine, ask in advance if the sommelier, chef or some other beverage manager type will stock it for you!

This is all of course in exception to the various state liquor laws and in the instance a restaurant that does not maintain a liquor license to sell wine and welcomes the corkage fee and BYOB.

And I sooooo understand the 8 top bringing their own 12 bottles, the decanting et al. is a nightmare on a slammed night.

[vengroff]

It seems to me that there are two main reasons people like to bring their own wine. One is that they think they have something particularly special in their collection that they believe is better than what the restaurant has to offer. The other is that they want to save money.

At Mark's level of restaurant, I don't think the first reason is very compelling. His full time job is to make sure he has an incredible inventory of ready-for-drinking bottles available at all times. I have not had the pleasure of dealing with him personally, but my experience with other sommeliers at that level is that most of them are very passionate about what they do and are more than willing to engage in a conversation about your preferences and price range and locate some very nice bottles for you.

Unlike many, I don't find the second reason compelling either. The value of my time and energy, not to mention long-term cellaring costs, just doesn't make sense to me. The restaurant is not getting my extra cash, but that doesn't mean I'm not spending it elsewhere. Adding on top of that the value of the expert advice of a Sommelier who has sampled more about wine than I ever will, and I feel like I'm clearly coming out ahead.

[jparrott]

And I sooooo understand the 8 top bringing their own 12 bottles, the decanting et al. is a nightmare on a slammed night.

I am an organizer and participant in several wine offlines in the DC area. We do our best to relieve the burden by going to places where we know the staff, preferably on their publicized "no corkage night" (e.g., Mondays at Lavandou). We bring out own glasses, our own decanters (I bring 6, usually we have at least 8) and our own corkscrews. We order a lot of food. We share wine liberally with the staff. We tip generously, plus leave our (ample) leftover wine. All we ask for is 1 dump bucket and 1 ice bucket. They love us.

Anybody who tries to run an offline whilst imposing any more than we do is asking for an awful lot of trouble.

[Carema]

Sorry Mark but as a wine buyer in Chicago I can no longer take the ream of restaurant mark-up with a smile ( I am getting older) so BYOBs are brilliant and we have plenty in Chicago. If the average consumer were aware of the deals, specials blow-outs and all that crap they would be shocked at the hoodwinkiness of it all. And before you come at me with anything else I was a restaurant list consultant on the west coast for years...I know the whole story. And I was a waiter who decanted, poured, got screwed all that stuff,but... I also tasted some amazing stuff coming from people's cellars. Always offer the somm/waiter a taste. Even in Georgia.

[John W.]

As for Citronelle's wine list, knowing what Mark has vs. what he pays, I agree wholeheartedly with his policy. His list has values at every price level, and at the end of the day, a restaurant is a business, and the 8 bottles for 12 people can really screw up your day.

The restaurant I do the wine list for is a lot lower-key. We charge $15 per bottle corkage, and that can go away for a number of reasons: regular guests, making sure the staff gets a taste, and a buy a bottle/bring a bottle situation. We don't encourage or discourage it, but we have had quite a few 8 bottle 12 tops that where there to save money only (think Hess Cab from Safeway). We don't use Riedel, but a decent level stem. Our staff training is more detailed than most. Our wines are served at the proper temperature. All this costs money.

I lived and worked in Napa Valley for a couple of years, my wife worked at the French Laundry. The restaurant I was at had the same policy as above (which really saw its share of Hess type stuff), while the Laundry charged $50. That caused quite a stir as you can imagine. As it was explained to me, it made sense. Riedel stemware ain't cheap, having two sommeliers isn't either, and pretty much everyone that visits has bought at least a few bottles at a winery or 3. The stories I used to hear from my wife about what was brought in were pretty funny. Let's face it, the French Laundry is if not the best then one of the best restaurants in the country, and to achieve the level of service needed you have to have an expensive wine program (expensive to ownership). I would also place Citronelle in the same boat.

Having worked in this business for 19 years, and knowing how hard it is to make a dime, I feel that one should respect the restaurants' decision to charge or not, and also if a no BYOB policy is in effect, respect that decision too. I know this a pretty fiery topic, but people in the service business do not like to say no, so this decision is not taken or made lightly.

[Mark Sommelier]

shocked at the hoodwinkiness of it all.

Hoodwinkiness!! I love that word!!

[Carema]

I suppose now I can relate a story about the other side of hoodwinkiness I was once working in a fine dining establishment (hence known as FDE) and a two top was seated and the waiter indicated to me thay had a special bottle of wine they wanted opened; so I went with my corkscrew and lo and behold out from the crumpled paper bag was slipped..... : a bottle of Turning Leaf! ---Turning Leaf! It was the happiest 25 corkage fee I had ever applied but geez- for 30 bucks they could have gotten something at the least drinkable off my list. Oh well.

[Mark Sommelier]

so I went with my corkscrew and lo and behold out from the crumpled paper bag was slipped..... :  a bottle of Turning Leaf! ---Turning Leaf!

I keep 50 California chardonnays on my winelist (plus another 70 white Burgundies) many of them hard to get and very limited production. Think: Kistler, Kongsgaard, Martinelli, Paul Hobbs, Hyde de Villaine. Whenever a customer says "I don't recognize any of these chardonnays", I know just where the conversation is going. When I ask them what they drink at home the answer is invariably: Kendall-Jackson.

[awbrig]

Sammy Sosa is going to have the largest Corking Fee in History!

[Carema]

  When I ask them what they drink at home the answer is invariably:  Kendall-Jackson.

Here's a beautiful story: I had an eight top a few years ago and I asked them what they drank at home, yes it was KJ. But I know that KJ is (or at least was) blended with off dry Gewurtztraminer so somehow I brought them to Baumard Clos St Catherine (from a vintage with some bot) and they loved it and wrote the name of the wine down! these were poeple who started the evening with Crown and Diet Rite, not that there is anything wrong with that.