Sommelier

[culinarian247]

In the future (a bit of a way off) I would like to open a fine dining establishment. And what I would like to know is if a Sommelier is really that beneficial. I know that some restaurants have them and some don't. I would just assume that as the Exec. Chef I would have all the food & wine knowledge needed. Along with the General Manager, of course. Going through school and working I am keeping a logbook (if you wil) of any recipes I come up with. So my next course of action is to try and successfuly pair the food with wine. I just don't know if a seperate person should do this. I mean, wouldn't a customer just order what they want? And how often do customers ask for the services of a wine steward?

[britcook]

As Exec Chef you will know about food in depth and have a working knowledge of wine but will you be working FOH? Whether you need (or can afford) a sommelier is a moot point but you do need someone FOH who has good wine knowledge. Remember the casual or occasional visitor is probably not familiar with the individual wines on your list (what is your particular Oregon Pinot or St Emilion like?) and may not be sure what a new dish is like and so will require guidance on the the wine. After (far too many) years of fine dining and drinking I still occasionally ask for advice from the sommelier/wine waiter and the meal is usually the better for it.

[Tonyfinch]

I think a sommelier is definitely NOT essential. There is no reason why you couldn't recommend on the menu which wines to drink with certain dishes. There is a fund of info. on food and wine matching out there that you could avail yourself of. Many restaurants now offer "flights" of wines to accompany set menus.

Edited December 5, 2002 by Tonyfinch (log)

[CathyL]

A sommelier isn't essential as long as your servers are knowledgeable about the wine list and trained to help customers with selection. (They should be anyway, as many diners are shy about asking for the sommelier.)

Wine distributors typically offer staff training to restaurants, but it's important to supplement that with internal tastings and wine classes.

[tommy]

perhaps it would be a good idea to specify/detail the duties of a sommelier. from that, it might be easier to pick off which could be done by a knowledgeable chef or manager, assuming he/she is comfortable in doing so and has the time. the duties, i'm guessing, go well beyond suggesting wine/food pairings. please note that i have no ties to the industry and i'm just speculating.

i think this would be an interesting exercise.

Edited December 5, 2002 by tommy (log)

[Charles Smith]

This may be obvious, but it depends on your list. Any wine prgram needs a part buyer, an organizer, a marketer and any number of salesmen. A good wine director or sommelier is the lead for all of those roles- If your list gets to be above 100 selections, I think you need at least a wine director to do all of those things well.

[mogsob]

I guess it depends on what kind of niche you see your restaurant in. If you are going to compete with ADNY, Lespinasse, Daniel et al., then yes, you do need a sommelier (as well as a hefty wine list). But if you are looking at competing with smaller fine dining establishments, then no, you don't.

What you need is to develop a good working relationship with an importer/distributor, who can help advise you on assembling a proper list.

[Charles Smith]

What you need is to develop a good working relationship with an importer/distributor, who can help advise you on assembling a proper list.

[Basildog]

I know nothing about running a restaurant, (and I have a free-trade bias against the US's three tier system) but this approach can lead to really bad wine lists.  It's very easy to spot a list created by a distributor, as opposed to one created with care with a point of view.

Depends on your wine merchant.We work with our merchant writing our wine list, and also on Wines of the Month.We have had a relationship for the last 7 years, and i am happy to use there knowledge to our advantage.

I wouldn't think our wine list was "easy to spot", just because it was written with a big input from the supplier.It is in his interest to make my customers and me happy with a well balanced, thought out list.

Obviously, a shady wine merchant would write a list that suits him best, but thankfully not all wine people are the same

[jaybee]

I have no professional restaurant experience, so my opinions are formed by eating in them and observing. If you intend to make wine a major revenue source, and you intend to develop an impressive selection, a wine/director could pay for himself many times over in two respects: he will guide your buying to produce a cellar of quality, good value and good margins for you, and he will become a trusted advisor to your customers, increasing the sales of wines.

You might want to call him a "wine director" as the French word may scare off some people. In my experience, even a second tier restaurant can have a great wine list and benefit from having a knowledgable wine director in the front of the house. If a place is serious about wine, it is a signal to me that they are serious about their food too.

[tommy]

to echo jaybee's sentiment, there's nothing more disheartening than going to a reasonably good restaurant with a reasonably interesting wine list and having no one in the front room who can recommend beyond the level of a complete novice. the role of "salesperson" can not be underestimated.

again, as mogsob suggests, this is all dependant upon the type of restaurant, clientele, vision, and list.

Edited December 5, 2002 by tommy (log)

[Charles Smith]

I know nothing about running a restaurant, (and I have a free-trade bias against the US's three tier system) but this approach can lead to really bad wine lists.  It's very easy to spot a list created by a distributor, as opposed to one created with care with a point of view.

Depends on your wine merchant.We work with our merchant writing our wine list, and also on Wines of the Month.We have had a relationship for the last 7 years, and i am happy to use there knowledge to our advantage.

I wouldn't think our wine list was "easy to spot", just because it was written with a big input from the supplier.It is in his interest to make my customers and me happy with a well balanced, thought out list.

Obviously, a shady wine merchant would write a list that suits him best, but thankfully not all wine people are the same

I knew I should have said something about this being a statement that applied to the US only-

my bad.

[mogsob]

Well, Charles, you are right about one thing -- you know nothing about running a restaurant. Regardless of whether you have a sommelier, you WILL need to develop a good working relationship with a liquor distributor. Absolutely essential to getting assured supply of particular bottles and volume discounts.

That said, that matter of choosing that distributor is paramount. I would venture a guess that at least 75% of NYC restaurants could vastly improve their wine list by buying exclusively from Rosenthal Wine Merchants, who import and distribute wholesale in NY. Just look at the wine list at Etats Unis to see what that relationship can do.

Yes, if you go the general route and get the UDV flunky as your distributor, then you will have a lousy list, but a good relationship with a small importer is the best way to go.

[Charles Smith]

Mogsob-

Clearly you need to work with a distributor, or distributors, to make the most of the wine list. Anyone who uses Rosenthal has made a decision to NOT have their distributor put their list together- rather, they've chosed one of the most, if not the most reputable importer/distributor in NYC to work on a wine program together- big difference.

I'm talking about the myriad of places who let their distributors (Southern?) write their list for them, which is sure fire way to get an insipid list.

Those lists are easy to spot-

and a sign that wine is not a priority.

[Christopher]

I mean, wouldn't a customer just order what they want? And how often do customers ask for the services of a wine steward?

[Rail Paul]

I'd be interested in knowing the typical gross revenue split between beverages and food service in a high end ($100 / Euro per person, 60 pounds, and up) establishment. Where an owner invests his or her money tells you about the establishment's priorities.

Based on my dining habits and wine / drink orders, I'd guess 60% - 65% food to 40% - 35% drinks would be reasonable as a split. To produce the food side, several chefs and pastry specialists may be required, so the investment of a (partly commissioned?) beverage expert would seem like a no-brainer if it drove an increase in alcohol sales.

I'd suspect there's probably a market for free-lance wine directors who can recommend wines for listing on the menu of mid-price establishments. The rise of recommendations ("light red, fruity white, sparkling, etc") listed with each entree is probably a cheap way of easing customer fears without having a real, knowledgeable person on the payroll full time.

This approach isn't intended for the wine specialist, but most restaurant patrons are not experts. They could be potential repeat customers, however...

[Steve Plotnicki]

To me this question has a capital investment component and a service component. In terms of inventory, one doesn't need a great wine director if they have enough money to walk into one of the top distributors in the city and guarantee payment for wines. If you were opening a high profile Italian restuarant, I am certain the people at Leonardo Locasio Imports will write your list for you with all their top wines on it. But if you want youre list to include great older selections, you need a knowledgable buyer who keeps track of how wines develop and what their price is in the market. But it seems to me that the term sommelier also means someone that offers top quality wine service. Whether that means good food matching or keeping glasses properly filled and wines kept at proper temperatures, whether you have waiters who are knowledgable or a sommelier it doesn't matter. At Tailevent which is a very wine intensive restuarant the sommelier is more involved in the serving then he is in the selection which is doen by captains. But at other places the sommelier rules the dining room regarding anything that has to do with wine.

[sam_harmon]

I've worked in the wine business as a sommelier, a cellar worker in Napa and now an importer, and I can state with certainty that any restaurant that lets a distributor--even a small quality-oriented one--write their wine list is not going to get the best possible wine program. No distributor has the best of everything. This does not preclude having a close and beneficial relationship witht the quality boutique-oriented distributors. That, however, is a fundamentally different thing than letting them decide what goes on the list.