Osaka & Tokyo

[Prawncrackers]

Hi folks, I don’t know why I haven’t asked earlier but I will be in Japan from this Friday for a brief 8 days and have some last minute questions. I’ll be starting in Fukuoka to visit my brother-in-law and his family for a couple of days then catching the train to Osaka on Sunday. We’re leaving Osaka on Tuesday to go to Tokyo then jet off on the Saturday.

It’s going to be our first time in Osaka and we’re staying at the Cross hotel near Dotonbori. Obviously we are going to hit Dotonbori hard and gorge ourselves. I’ve got my eyes on a Crab Kaiseki at Kani Doraku - I know it’s probably very touristy but hey we are tourists! I’d also like to go to Kuromon market and Dogayasuji (the catering mall near Namba Sta), does anyone know when the best time to visit these places is? I’ve been told that the fugu at Kuromon is excellent and depending on how brave my wife feels we’d like to try some. Apart from that is there anything else that we must must eat in Osaka? Also is the national holiday next Tuesday going to affect anything?

It will be our third time in Tokyo, this time we’re staying in Shibuya (Cerulean Tower). Apart from the sushi pilgrimage to Tsukiji, we’ve already made a booking at Kozue restaurant in the Park Hyatt Shinjuku because we had such a wonderful meal there last time. Those are the only two foodie things we’ve planned as we thought we could be a little less obsessive about things. But now that the trip is almost upon us, I’m thinking it’ll be good to have a bit more ammunition. Where else should we consider in Tokyo for foodie hit? Consider also that we really want our Kozue meal to be our dearest so any ideas about the 5000-7000 would be great. Thanking you guys in advance.

[nakji]

Any dishes in particular in mind for Tokyo? Are you interested in ramen, or tonkatsu? I had an amazing tonkatsu set lunch at the Shin Marunouchi building near Tokyo station- they do filet, loin, and an amazing whole langoustine. Three kinds of in-house pickle on each table. I can't remember the name of the place, but it was the only tonkatsu venue on the first restaurant floor there. Blue curtains, wood interior, and a big vase of in-season branches next to the waiting-bench outside. Sorry, this is a virtually useless recommendation, but if you enjoy fried pork, you'll be rewarded if you find this place. Budget around 2000-3000 for a set lunch.

[Prawncrackers]

I will eat anything but yes I am particulary interested in getting some good ramen. My wife will love the tonkatsu suggestion though as that is her favourite of all Japanese dishes - 1st floor, Shin Marunouchi building near the station, check. Keep them coming please, especially Shibuya recs.

[thelobster]

Sammy's Ebisu Plaza in Dotonbori is a 1920's-themed indoor theme park with about fifty different food vendors. Tori No Mai in Namba Parks has good yakitori and seasonal dishes.

Does Kuromon have a fugu restaurant along the street? I thought it was just an outdoor market.

For tonkatsu in Tokyo, I'd recommend the sampler with five different types of gourmet pork at Butagumi - now that I've eaten there I don't feel like I need to eat tonkatsu anywhere else.

For first-rate, affordable seasonal cuisine, En in Marunouchi is a fantastic experience; they also have branches in Suidobashi and Shiodome.

[Blether]

I know next to nothing about Osaka, but as for Kani-douraku, at least in Tokyo, for all of being a long-established chain, and despite some of the waitresses seemingly having worked there for decades, they still do quality crab, well served for a good price. I wouldn't knock it.

Maisen (qv) and one other are the oft-quoted 'best' for tonkatsu in Tokyo amongst (white) foreigners. Surely they're good, but I have my doubts about 'best', or even about how that can be defined. There are upwards of 100,000 restaurants in Tokyo, and we often have guests asking things here like "what's a good restauarant to go to in Tokyo - I'll be there on Tuesday', which is like asking "where would be a good place to eat on the West Coast of America next Friday ?". (This doesn't apply to you, Prawncrackers). 25 million people live in the Tokyo-Yokohama-Kawasaki conurbation. With the sheer scale of the place, it almost feels unkind to give recommendations - who can genuinely be au fait with such a big scene that also changes so much ?

I find the whole restaurant-choosing thing here quite different to what it is in the UK. So long as you choose Japanese food, it's very difficult in this country to find it poorly made. With some allowances at the very low end of the budget scale, pretty much everything you have will be well-made from good ingredients - it's a combinatioon of the cultural thing with national prosperity that means no Japanese has to eat rubbish - it can always be sent back, and not just small-time. You send me a shipment of old vegetables as an import ? It's coming back your way. As for cleanliness, it's too shameful to poison anyone; generally it'll be as good as you do at home. Nor with the convenience and reliability of Tokyo transport does it always make sense to restrict yourself to one area.

Tonkatsu is a particular favourite of mine - again as I've said before, this time quite recently - wherever you go, it seems easy to stumble on a neighbourhood tonkatsu-ya where the food's great and the prices excellent - even if the decor is from the 50's or 60's There's a delivery service that sends a quality tonkatsu dinner to my apartment for 1600yen, all in.

If you take the Japanese viewpoint, Futaba near Ueno is currently the top user-rated tonkatsu-ya in Tokyo - about 3,000yen for a set meal; Suzubun in Kamata comes second; it seems hard to break the 2,000yen barrier there for the basic set meal. Of course once you order salads or side dishes (not at all necessary, nutritionally) the bill will expand, as it will depending on your capacity for alcohol.

Hope ramen in Sendagaya is an old-time tonkotsu ramen shop with a great reputation, historically. I found the soup pretty repulsive ! Nearby me here is a branch of Kitakata ramen, and I've enjoyed their shio ramen, cha shu men and negi cha shu men (they are *very* generous with the cha shu). Last time, BG couldn't finish hers and asked for a doggy bowl for the noodles and soup - tenchou kindly topped it off with extra slices of cha shu, for free. But I'd be embarassed to pretend to be a guide to ramen places - it's something I only have once in a while.

Ten minutes away in Yotsuya is a venerable Chinese-run ramen place that does the whole pigs-ears-on-down range of pork products, but I'm not sure I want to make it stowed-out-with-foreigners just because I mention it here...

[Lisa Shock]

Have you been to Kappabashi, or are you just interested in eating?

[Prawncrackers]

I went to Kappabashi last time determined to buy some of those food models you see in the all of the restaurant windows. Alas I didn't reckon on them being sooo expensive. Did manage to get some knives and a set of moribashi though.

Gourmet tonkatsu sounds like a dream come true. I want some now! Especially Butagami mentioned by lobster, it'll be interesting to eat Berkshire pig tonkatsu in Tokyo as the last tonkatsu that I cooked was from a Berkshire pig. Is it so highly rated that it makes it as far as Tokyo? I thought Middle Whites were the most prized in Japan.

Sammy's Ebisu plaza looks wonderful and is already on the list.

[nakji]

1st floor, Shin Marunouchi building near the station

Sorry, it's not the first floor, but it's the first restaurant floor, which I believe is the fifth or sixth floor in the building. If you order the hire katsu, it comes out about an inch and a half thick, and nicely rare in the middle. All of the side dishes have exceptional care. I'm so jealous!

For ramen, Ippudo is a safe option - there's one in Meidaemae station, near Meiji University. Not sure about other locations, but the bean sprout salad alone is worth making the trek. There's another place that I can't remember the name of - it's one of the top-rated chains on the Yamanote line - it has a branch at Kawasaki station that I always used to visit in the basement floor of Kawasaki Be Department store, but there's one on the Yamanote as well. Succulent ramen. Does anyone know the name of the chain? My husband thinks it's called "Meguro". I don't know why I've never written this stuff down.

[prasantrin]

Doguyasuji is really small compared to Kappabashi, and I've found a lot of their prices are a bit higher. You might be disappointed (I love Doguyasuji, though).

I know you're coming for Japanese food, but. . . if you can get to a really good Neapolitan pizza place, I'd save one lunch for that. It's probably oodles better than what you can get locally (not that I know what Neapolitan pizza is like in the UK), so it unless you go to Italy fairly often, it'll be the closest you can get to the real thing.

[prasantrin]

Osaka-style okonomiyaki is worth a try while you're in Osaka. I don't know of a good one off-hand (my favourite Osaka-style okonomiyaki place is in Kobe). Then you can compare with monjayaki in Tokyo (different animals, but many people compare them, anyway).

Doguyasuji used to have a particular day when most of the stores were closed. I can't remember which day that was, but from their website, it looks like most stores should be open every day, 9-6. I prefer to go around 10 before it gets too crowded. It's not like Kappabashi where the stores are along a real street, but it's more like a covered shopping arcade, so when it gets crowded, it's difficult to move around.

Most restaurants and stores will be open on the national holiday. If anything, things will be more crowded rather than less. If you're taking the Shinkansen on that day, I hope you already have your tickets.

[torakris]

I am pretty sure that the tonkatsu place Erin is referring to is Wako. This is a major chain and I go quite a bit (to a different branch of course, the food they serve is a great deal for the money. I have been Maisen and some of the other famous places but I really like Wako. Here is a sample of the menu:

http://www.wako-group.co.jp/02shop_re_menu.html

I really like the Ladies set, bottom right, it consists of a hire katsu (tenderloin), ebi-fry (shrimp) and a chicken katsu with an umeboshi (sour plum) and shiso filling. The 1300 yen set also includes a dessert (usually fruit) as well as all you can eat rice, soup (their tonjiru is wonderful, cabbage and pickles. They actually bring a bowl of shredded cabbage to the table along with a wooden box with 3 to 4 different pickles so you can keep helping yourself during the meal.

[thelobster]

Gourmet tonkatsu sounds like a dream come true. I want some now! Especially Butagami mentioned by lobster, it'll be interesting to eat Berkshire pig tonkatsu in Tokyo as the last tonkatsu that I cooked was from a Berkshire pig. Is it so highly rated that it makes it as far as Tokyo? I thought Middle Whites were the most prized in Japan.

Berkshire is the most popular gourmet pork in Japan, and it's raised locally rather than imported. It goes by the name 'kurobuta' (literally 'black pig').

I've been to Maisen and Wako and Horaitei (my former favorite place, in Shibuya), but I think Butagumi raises tonkatsu to a whole different level.

[Prawncrackers]

Brilliant, looks like it’s going to be the great Tonkatsu Tour of Tokyo 2009. Maisen, Wako, Horaitei. Check, check, check. Horaitei looks like it’s just across the road from our hotel in Shibuya too so there’s no excuse not to try that one first.

Rona thanks for the neopolitan pizza tip, I appreciate that the Japanese do such artisanal dishes probably better than anyone but being such an infrequent visitor I would really feel like I’m missing out on another memorable Japanese meal. Besides, I’ve never been to Naples so I wouldn’t have anything to compare it to!

You seem to know Osaka pretty well. Considering we’re only there for an evening, a whole of the next day and the morning after that; is it worth going to the Momofuku Instant Ramen museum? Looks fun but not sure how easy it is to get to from the Namba/Shinsaibashi area.

[prasantrin]

I don't think so. It's about 45 minutes from Namba, and though it's pretty close to the train station, that would be at least 3 hours of your time, more if you make your own instant ramen from scratch. If you were staying for closer to a week, it would be much more do-able. You could easily use up all your time just by staying in Namba/Shinsaibashi.

BTW, if you need train help, Hyperdia is an excellent resource. Just make sure you scroll to look at all the options it gives. I've found the first route isn't necessarily the best one.

[anpanman]

If you're interested in having fugu, I would try to get that while in Fukuoka. It's more of a local specialty there than in Osaka. Or better yet, take the 30 minute shinkansen ride to Shimonoseki and get it at the source of the best fugu in Japan.

[nakji]

I am pretty sure that the tonkatsu place Erin is referring to is Wako.

I've been to Wako outlets, and unless this is a radically more upscale Wako than the rest of the chain, the location I'm talking about is completely different from the average Wako. The decor is traditional wood and beam, with blue curtains. There are beautiful wood pickle boxes on each table that look more like old-fashioned bento. And there are only five menu items - the hire, the rosu, the giant shrimp, a chick katsu and an ebi katsu.

I don't know, it could be a flagship Wako with a different menu, but I don't think it is.

If you're making it a katsu tour, try a Genkatsu outlet. They do millefeuille katsu with a variety of fillings.

Doguyasuji is really small compared to Kappabashi, and I've found a lot of their prices are a bit higher. You might be disappointed (I love Doguyasuji, though).

FWIW, I thought the dishware available at Doguyasuji was nicer than that in Kappabashi, although I only visited Osaka the once.

[thelobster]

The tonkatsu restaurant in the Shin-Maru Buiding is called Katsukichi. (And there's also another pork restaurant called Tonpu.)

[Blether]

There's another ramen museum in Shin-Yokohama, where there are lots of little outlets serving ramen in various regional styles.

Back at your 6,000-7,000yeb budget, Hibiki in Shiodome is a good example of a modern, stylish general-menu Japanese restaurant. It's on the 46th floor and the photos at gnavi there don't do it justice at all. Call ahead and be sure to get a window seat.

[Prawncrackers]

Thanks for all the tips folks. Back from Japan a couple of days ago and we had a wonderful time as usual. We managed to eat pretty well but you know I wasn’t going to let you down in that respect. In the end we had four tonkatsu meals: one at a Wako in Fukuoka, one at Maisen in Omotesando (shame we couldn’t meet up Blether) and two at Horaitei in Shibuya (big up to the lobster for this rec). They were all excellent but surprisingly the Wako chain offering shaded it for me. The extra sauce options and the dressing for the cabbage made it stand out. Didn’t get as far as Butagumi but that’s something to look forward to for next time.

Anyway I’ve got lots of questions and photos to sort through. Would you guys be interested in seeing some of this stuff? There was a couple of snack items in particular I wanted to ask about.

[Blether]

Great, yes, I'll (I'm sure we'll all) be intrigued to hear about it. (And we'll work out a meet-up next time, for sure). Fire away with any questions.

[thelobster]

Glad to hear you enjoyed Horaitei! And yes, please do post.

[Prawncrackers]

Okay let's start with the start in Fukuoka. We landed early afternoon and after checking in we had a couple of hours to kill before meeting up with our relatives so we headed straight to Canal City which was a 10 min stroll away. After watching some Japanese TV show about Ramen noodles on the Virgin flight, we were hungry for some of that, in fact we were craving it. Luckily we knew that in Canal City there was Raumen (sic) Stadium where 6 or so Ramen vendors from around the country compete to stay in. From what I remember there were a couple of local boys, one from Osaka, one from Tokyo, even one from Hokkaido somewhere. I didnt really take any notice though as we were always going to choose one of the local offerings, when in Kyushu and all that. We decided to plump for these guys because we'd never tried the dipping ramen before. What is this style called? It just looked so good with the soft-set egg and the rashers of pork.

I decided to go for the biggest 300g offering of noodle and tucked in with élan. The first mouthfuls were simply incredible, the flavour of the intense pork soup stock had something else to it too. Maybe it was part of the stock itself or maybe it was the powdered stuff floating on the square of nori. Can anyone enlighten? In addition to the rashers of pork there were sizeable cubes of succulent pork hidden in the soup too. The texture of the noodle was firm and slippery and coated with the viscous soup, well as first mouthfuls of Japan go this was very memorable indeed. The only gripe I had was because I'd ordered a massive portion I found that at about 60% finished the soup was as cold as the noodles, which made finishing this very rich dish a challenge. So much so that I had to leave a couple of mouthfuls of noodles in the bottom of the soup bowl. I felt bad about leaving it and a little ashamed. My wife was able to finish her 250g portion and have a little of mine too. Thinking about it now what would have been great would have been a ladle of boiling water to loosen it all. I would have drunk the thinned yet still delicious soup and been able to the finish the rest of the noodles. I can't be first person to think of this, can I?

The rest of the meals in Fukuoka were spent with family. One included a 100Y Kaiten Sushi place that was surprisingly good and a great Tonkatsu meal at Wako which i'll save for Blether's new Tonkatsu dining topic.

The one other thing apart the Ramen that blew us away, again found in Canal City, were the Takoyaki balls. In previous visits to Japan I've been pretty unimpressed by them but these beauties covered with cheese and Mentaiko sauce were a taste sensation. We went back for seconds and thirds.

I was so impressed that in Osaka I bought a Tako pan, all I need now is tried and tested recipe. Can anyone provide a link or two? If only I can reproduce that Mentaiko sauce too.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Prawncrackers (log)

[Blether]

The ramen place is called Hakata Gensuke - it looks like they've only been open a year or so. Hakata is an alternative / traditional name for Fukuoka, IIRC. They have a photo sequence showing how they make their noodles, which are, as you will of course have noted, cut extra thick.

The powder is dried bonito / katsuobushi, and the soup is chicken and seafood, with the emphasis on seafood, it says elsewhere.

Takoyaki's based on a pancake batter mixed with dashi - I hope someone who's actually made them will help. They do look good !

Edited November 10, 2009 by Blether (log)

[nakji]

Oh, the packet of Ajisen noodles in my fridge is just not going to cut it after those pictures. Fukuoka remains on my husband's list of must-visit places in Japan, merely for their ramen.

The tonkatsu restaurant in the Shin-Maru Buiding is called Katsukichi.

Thanks! I didn't think it was a Wako, though no disrespect meant to that chain. I have had many a fine tonkatsu there, as well.

[Prawncrackers]

Blimey those images turned out a bit large. Ah Chicken & Seafood soup at that ramen place. I just assumed it was going to be a pork base, no wonder i couldn't work out the flavour combination. Yes the noodles were thick cut too which was another novel treat for us.

Bear with me I'll get on to some of the stuff we ate in Osaka later today.