stable mousse

[Lior]

thanks to you both!! One day I hope to be able to afford the aW device!!

Now I guess I should make a mousse!!! But I am as "chicken" as a mouse....

[Sebastian]

Nothing public as far as i know. At risk of stepping into a big steaming pile here (there's going to be a lot of passion around this) - it's very common of french and belgian instructors to teach that one should always temper their chocolate, and a variety of reasons is given, depending on the instructor. At the end of the day, however, those reasons are simply not founded in scientific principle, and do not pan out when put to the test. The physical structure of cocoa butter at time of combination with cream has no impact on water activity. Once blended with water and milk fat (cream), the water causes a phase transition of solids into syrups (milk and sugar), and the short chain fatty acids of the milk fat sort of worm their way in between the long chains of the cocoa butter (this, by the way, is what provides bloom resistance). Schneich had mentioned that he'd tested Aw in his kitchen - not knowing the details of what he did, were the same lot of materials used, were the both mixed homogeneously, was the reading within the standard deviation of the equipment used, etc, it's hard to say the results were conclusive. I think it's great that he's testing it!

Remember that it's pretty rare for a chef to have a physical sciences background as well, and it's not uncommon for them to try to explain a phenomenon they observe in scientific terms, but w/o having the proper background to determine why it's occurring, or properly testing their hypothesis. It's also part of the culture to not question what the chef says, and as such w/o challenge, the hypothesis carries on, true or not.

At the end of the day, if you like using tempered chocolate in your ganache, by all means continue to do so - it'll harm nothing. But it's not going to help either.

-Seb

i can confirm that tempering the chocolate has no affect on shelf life of ganache.

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Sebastian - having followed your various posts for a few years, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say that without some scientific backing. Is there anything available publically on the topic?

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[Lior]

sigh!

Thank you very much. My passions and emotions are only for learning! I am quite enthusiastic to learn the scientific side but it seems difficult to understand! Chemistry was so many years ago I will try to digest the info. As you said, in the end, everyone uses what they are comfortable with, which as long as it is fresh and delicious and looks beautiful, is fine.

[schneich]

@sebastian

i am certainly not as science savy as you. but the lower aW reading with precrystallized ganaches compared to uncrystallized ganache is documented by the labs at callebaut AND valrhona ;-)

cheers

t.

[Sebastian]

Thanks Schneich - i wrote my reply at 6 am in the morning as i was rushing to work - sorry if i came across harsh - i should have waited to write the note until I'd taken more time to wordsmith the messages better. I've nothing but the utmost respect for you and what you do.

I used to be Callebaut's technical director, so I'm pretty familiar with what they have and how they arrived at it. Suffice it to say that it certainly warrants further scrutiny. Remember, 1/2 of callebaut's business is chef driven, and as my wife the statistician says, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The data can be made such that if fits the message that the chef's want to deliver...there's many reasons i'd chosen to leave that organization, this trend being one of them.

Valrhona, while producing great product, isn't a particularly technical organization. I'm a great fan of their products, and have some at home right now actually.

As i said, i was likely stepping into something with a lot of passion around it - if you believe it's beneficial, by all means continue to do it. I can say, with a great deal of confidence, however, that there's no scientific basis nor evidence to support it (I'm currently sr technical management of the worlds largest chocolate company - I'll see if i can't extract some internal data to share. no promises, as internal data is meant for precisely that - internal purposes - but let me poke around...). It's a topic that's been very well studied and documented by us.

[gap]

Thanks Schneich - i wrote my reply at 6 am in the morning as i was rushing to work - sorry if i came across harsh - i should have waited to write the note until I'd taken more time to wordsmith the messages better.  I've nothing but the utmost respect for you and what you do.

I used to be Callebaut's technical director, so I'm pretty familiar with what they have and how they arrived at it.  Suffice it to say that it certainly warrants further scrutiny.  Remember, 1/2 of callebaut's business is chef driven, and as my wife the statistician says, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.  The data can be made such that if fits the message that the chef's want to deliver...there's many reasons i'd chosen to leave that organization, this trend being one of them.

Valrhona, while producing great product, isn't a particularly technical organization.  I'm a great fan of their products, and have some at home right now actually.

As i said, i was likely stepping into something with a lot of passion around it - if you believe it's beneficial, by all means continue to do it.  I can say, with a great deal of confidence, however, that there's no scientific basis nor evidence to support it (I'm currently sr technical management of the worlds largest chocolate company - I'll see if i can't extract some internal data to share.  no promises, as internal data is meant for precisely that - internal purposes - but let me poke around...).  It's a topic that's been very well studied and documented by us.

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Sebastian - thanks for your detailed response. And both were well crafted messages - like you said, it was always going to be a tricky topic to dance around

[Lior]

I do not see why it should be so "tricky" to talk about. This is what is great about egullet. Information can be shared, discussed and even argued. That brings only good. Everyone gets thinking. Open minds are better than closed ones. I totally enjoy reading what many of you out there have to say. Sebastian, are you allowed to tell which company you work for?

Do you teach?

[Sebastian]

I do enjoy teaching, in fact i just taught a chocolate school last week. It's the favorite part of my job 8-)

[lebowits]

In reading this thread it seems we're getting away from the real issue which is all about the application, which in Lior's original question relates to making a mousse. I won't speculate as the value of using tempered chocolate for this app as I don't make mousses very much and am very happy with the formulas I use.

As to the general question as to whether it is better to use tempered chocolate for ganache, I believe again this is a question of application. In my (admittedly limited) experience, I will use tempered chocolate for ganache when I want a firmer product in less time as in when I will pour a slab for cutting. If I am piping ganache for molded chocolates or truffle shells I will usually NOT use tempered chocolate because I want the ganache to remain "loose" and to firm more slowly. This allows for the ganache to "settle" in the shell. Since I don't have a continuous temperer it also means I spend less time (and hence less money) in making that particular product.

If I did have a continuous temperer (and I certainly wouldn't mind that), I would use whatever chocolate I had once I understood how to get my work done in the least time while maintaining my desired level of quality. Certainly shelf life is important, but so far, I'm not having to worry about that (yet).