Ayran

[FoodMan]

I'm not sure if practice makes it better, it does make it perfect though . Seriously, the more you make it the more you are familiar with the process and the proper temp and such until it becomes a routine and not a mystery anymore.

Elie

[chefzadi]

Back in France we actually used "Danone nature" to make Aryan, but for some reason the American Dannon doesn't taste as good. I am having a difficult time finding good yogurt here in NY, I only know of one or two brands that make something acceptable. I think i am going to start making my own from now on

I have to give my wife a dollar everytime I say this. I'm dead broke.

[wannabechef]

Yeah, I know..

I just have to start making it a habit, plus it is so very simple. I checked your eGCI method and it is just like my parents used to do it at home when we were kids.

They also always told me that the more you make yogurt and repeat the process, the better the yogurt will become, is it always true?

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Making your own yogurt is fun and easy. But I gave up after a while because I thought that the plain (lowfat!) danon was a lot better than what i was making. As you can tell from my other posts in this thread - I'm kind of obsessive about Turkish yogurt and am frustrated I can't find the exact thing here. So, what I did was bring a container of yogurt from Turkey to use as my starter! I made a bunch of batches from it but it was never the same as the original. I asked a bunch of people and was told that the commercial yogurts have stabilizers and other things in them to make them firm, etc. I experimented with using non-fat dry milk in the mix to make it firmer. I could never get the right consistency and sourness though.

Also, from what I understand, the yogurt culture actully becomes weaker as you keep using it. I never really understood this. How does the starter get started then? This whole chicken-egg thing is very confusing!

~WBC

[FoodMan]

Yeah, I know..

I just have to start making it a habit, plus it is so very simple. I checked your eGCI method and it is just like my parents used to do it at home when we were kids.

They also always told me that the more you make yogurt and repeat the process, the better the yogurt will become, is it always true?

←

Making your own yogurt is fun and easy. But I gave up after a while because I thought that the plain (lowfat!) danon was a lot better than what i was making. As you can tell from my other posts in this thread - I'm kind of obsessive about Turkish yogurt and am frustrated I can't find the exact thing here. So, what I did was bring a container of yogurt from Turkey to use as my starter! I made a bunch of batches from it but it was never the same as the original. I asked a bunch of people and was told that the commercial yogurts have stabilizers and other things in them to make them firm, etc. I experimented with using non-fat dry milk in the mix to make it firmer. I could never get the right consistency and sourness though.

Also, from what I understand, the yogurt culture actully becomes weaker as you keep using it. I never really understood this. How does the starter get started then? This whole chicken-egg thing is very confusing!

~WBC

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Dannon better than homemade??!! I don't think so.

A couple of suggestions and then back to talking about Ayran. We can continue the yogurt discussion in the appropriate thread in "Cooking". There are at least a couple of those threads around.

1- To make the yogurt more sour, add more starter and let it sit our longer than normal. Even in the fridge my yogurt gets more sour after the more it sits.

2- To make it firmer, drain the yogurt in cheese cloth. for a couple of hours for semi firm, the more drained the firmer it gets. Also When using reduced fat milk to make yogurt, it always comes out "thinner".

3- The calim that the starter gets weaker is bogus. My starter, frozen between batches, is more than 2.5 years old and makes fantasticv yogurt. It is actually as old as my sourdough starter.

Now , back to Ayran

Elie

[zeitoun]

Ok, so back to Aryan..

The brand that sells it here in the US and that I like is called Romi's, they are based in Paterson, NJ. The turkish one i had is called something like aylya or yalya and as wannabechef (i think it was you??) rightfully pointed out it is not made in turkey but made here in the US by a turkish owned company.

[wannabechef]

Ok, so back to Aryan..

The brand that sells it here in the US and that I like is called Romi's, they are based in Paterson, NJ.  The turkish one i had is called something like aylya or yalya and as wannabechef (i think it was you??) rightfully pointed out it is not made in turkey but made here in the US by a turkish owned company.

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Yep thats the one. I've tried that brand. It's not bad - but not as good as what they have in Turkey.

Elie - you have inspired me to give yogurt making another shot. I'm going to look at some of the yogurt threads in cooking. Thanks.

~WBC

[Boris_A]

Also, from what I understand, the yogurt culture actully becomes weaker as you keep using it.

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All I know about this is that for yoghurt, some bazillus bulgaricus is at work. (Actually, my father is from Bulgaria). And I know that a big producer of yoghurt in Switzerland has (had?) regularly his bazillus culture imports from Bulgaria, because the bazillus is degenrating over time. A question of terroir, I believe.

BTW, my Ayran:

- yoghurt

- water

- a tiny bit of mineral (carbonized) water to add some spritz

- some salt

[Behemoth]

I would add that there is probably no definitive version of ayran. The Lebanese versions I grew up with were pretty sour/salty, the turkish versions I've had in Germany were sour but less salty and the stuff I had in Iraq was made from goats milk and had a flavor that was sort of smoky and salty, but not very sour. All had their charm.

I don't know if anyone else does this, but if you buy a tub of organic yogurt and keep it in the fridge for a couple of weeks, it gets good and sour. (Not past its date, but about a week short.) That's what I've been doing lately, lacking enough time & energy to make my own. It's usually much too mild for me when I first buy it.

My ayran is just salt, yogurt and ice cubes in the blender on a hot summer day. Best eaten with a lahmajun/sfiha/lamb "pizza"

[wannabechef]

I would add that there is probably no definitive version of ayran. The Lebanese versions I grew up with were pretty sour/salty, the turkish versions I've had in Germany were sour but less salty and the stuff I had in Iraq was made from goats milk and had a flavor that was sort of smoky and salty, but not very sour. All had their charm.

I don't know if anyone else does this, but if you buy a tub of organic yogurt and keep it in the fridge for a couple of weeks, it gets good and sour. (Not past its date, but about a week short.) That's what I've been doing lately, lacking enough time & energy to make my own. It's usually much too mild for me when I first buy it.

My ayran is just salt, yogurt and ice cubes in the blender on a hot summer day. Best eaten with a lahmajun/sfiha/lamb "pizza"

←

Have you ever tried leaving it out of the fridge for a day or two to make it more sour? (rather than in the fridge for a few weeks) I agree with you that American store bought yogurt is just way too mild. Also, does anyone know the difference between getting more sour and turning bad? at what point does it stop getting sour and become spoiled? what causes this transformation? Maybe this discussion really belongs in yogurt thread.

~WBC

[Behemoth]

Have you ever tried leaving it out of the fridge for a day or two to make it more sour? (rather than in the fridge for a few weeks) I agree with you that American store bought yogurt is just way too mild. Also, does anyone know the difference between getting more sour and turning bad? at what point does it stop getting sour and become spoiled? what causes this transformation? Maybe this discussion really belongs in yogurt thread.

I don't see why that wouldn't work, I should try it. I have no idea what the cutoff point is for yogurt -- it never lasts that long. I guess it just gets too sour or something, I've never actually seen it turn green.

[dankphishin]

I'm Armenian, so our name for Ayran is "Tahn." I usually drink it as it, with some mint leaves on top.

[gus_tatory]

Maybe French style yoghurt could be thinned down...

I'm drinking Kefir at this moment...

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Back in France we actually used "Danone nature" to make Aryan...

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Check out my eGCI class from more details...

Elie

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hi all--

i have always loved yogurt and buttermilk, but i just discovered Ayran in the last few weeks.

the first time i tried it, i was like, "eww, how can you tell if this is bad?"

but now i love it.

Elie: i am going to go look at your eGCI course, but i have a question:

does the Ayran undergo any *additional* fermentation process, because the kind i'm getting here (in Montreal, from a Turkish food court restaurant) tastes too sour and 'sparkly' (almost carbonated) to just be the fermentation from the yogurt? the container says it has yogurt, water, salt, milk solids, and additional bacterial cultures.

thanks in advance,

gus

[FoodMan]

Maybe French style yoghurt could be thinned down...

I'm drinking Kefir at this moment...

←

Back in France we actually used "Danone nature" to make Aryan...

←

Check out my eGCI class from more details...

Elie

←

hi all--

i have always loved yogurt and buttermilk, but i just discovered Ayran in the last few weeks.

the first time i tried it, i was like, "eww, how can you tell if this is bad?"

but now i love it.

Elie: i am going to go look at your eGCI course, but i have a question:

does the Ayran undergo any *additional* fermentation process, because the kind i'm getting here (in Montreal, from a Turkish food court restaurant) tastes too sour and 'sparkly' (almost carbonated) to just be the fermentation from the yogurt? the container says it has yogurt, water, salt, milk solids, and additional bacterial cultures.

thanks in advance,

gus

←

It depends what you mean by additional fermentation. I guess it could. So, let's say you make Ayran at home and leave it for a week in the fridge. The cultures in there from the yogurt are still alive and will make the ayran more sour than the first day it was made. It also depends on the yogurt used, if the yogurt is already sour then the resulting Ayran will be sour.

As far as carbonation, it was mentioned that upthread that some people use carbonated water to make ayran. I would think this would be stated on the list of ingredients though.

Elie

[Almass]

Ayran with this "sour" kick.

If you are not gravitating in the ME and would like your Ayran with the sour kick.

This is what you do:

- Plan A Take a glass or any small quantity of fresh organic milk and spray a minute dust of sugar (few grains=1 dozen or so) on the milk and stir to dissolve. Place container in a warm place for couple of days or so and magic: the milk goes sour.

Take the sour milk and mix with your yoghurt. Do balance the amount of milk to the amount of yoghurt you are using. We are talkin few ml of sour milk for 250ml of yoghurt. Keep new mixture in warmish place untill it starts going sour, refrigerate or mix with water and salt and drink your Ayran with the "sour" kick.

- Plan B if you cannot be bothered with the above, simply add a small tea spoon of Sour Cream to your yoghurt and wait for the youghurt to go sour.

- Plan C add lemon juice

- Plan D buy ready made from the shelf

- Plan E have a coke and a nice day!

[wannabechef]

Ayran with this "sour" kick.

If you are not gravitating in the ME and would like your Ayran with the sour kick.

This is what you do:

- Plan A Take a glass or any small quantity of fresh organic milk and spray a minute dust of sugar (few grains=1 dozen or so) on the milk and stir to dissolve. Place container in a warm place for couple of days or so and magic: the milk goes sour.

Take the sour milk and mix with your yoghurt. Do balance the amount of milk to the amount of yoghurt you are using. We are talkin few ml of sour milk for 250ml of yoghurt. Keep new mixture in warmish place untill it starts going sour, refrigerate or mix with water and salt and drink your Ayran with the "sour" kick.

- Plan B if you cannot be bothered with the above, simply add a small tea spoon of Sour Cream to your yoghurt and wait for the youghurt to go sour.

- Plan C add lemon juice

- Plan D buy ready made from the shelf

- Plan E have a coke and a nice day!

←

Almass, maybe you can answer my question from above. what is the difference between sour milk and spoiled milk?

Thanks

~WBC

[FoodMan]

Ayran with this "sour" kick.

If you are not gravitating in the ME and would like your Ayran with the sour kick.

This is what you do:

- Plan A Take a glass or any small quantity of fresh organic milk and spray a minute dust of sugar (few grains=1 dozen or so) on the milk and stir to dissolve. Place container in a warm place for couple of days or so and magic: the milk goes sour.

Take the sour milk and mix with your yoghurt. Do balance the amount of milk to the amount of yoghurt you are using. We are talkin few ml of sour milk for 250ml of yoghurt. Keep new mixture in warmish place untill it starts going sour, refrigerate or mix with water and salt and drink your Ayran with the "sour" kick.

- Plan B if you cannot be bothered with the above, simply add a small tea spoon of Sour Cream to your yoghurt and wait for the youghurt to go sour.

- Plan C add lemon juice

- Plan D buy ready made from the shelf

- Plan E have a coke and a nice day!

←

Almass, maybe you can answer my question from above. what is the difference between sour milk and spoiled milk?

Thanks

~WBC

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Here is my undestanding. It is all a question of bacteria strain. Both sour milk and spoiled milk are really "spoiled". However, some bacteria make it taste sour and good, others make it taste nasty and can make you sick. The same concept of moldy cheese, some mold is desirable while other mold is not. Sorry, if this makes it evne more confusing. I believe there is a yogurt thread in "cooking" that might shed more light on the process.

EDIT: Click here to go to the yogurt thread.

Elie

[anzu]

I believe I can help with the difference betweensour and bad yogurt. I lived for a couple of years in an area where, in summer, the yogurt was clearly not kept cool enough during shipping and before being sold. Often, open opening, it had a pinkish growth covering the surface. That was clearly bad.

Sour yogurt, on the other hand, quite simply smells and tastes sour. Even if extremely sour tasting it can still be okay for comsumption. In fact, in some places (Rajasthan, for example), the yogurt served is often so sour that I, personally, would have tossed it rather than eaten it. People like it that way there, however, and suffer no ill-effects from its consumption.

Not sure if I can help as far as sour milk goes. Isn't it bad if has split (separated into curds and whey of its own accord)? If this has just happened recently, it would still be okay for making ricotta or paneer.

Here, too, drinking this would not necessarily cause illness or even discomfort. Someone I knew who grew up in the UK said that their milk ALWAYS came in this form when he was young, and they drank it anyway.

Now it it has actually changed color (a lightly blue-ish tinge), it would probably be better off tossed.

Does it show that I spent quite a lot of my life living in really hot countries?

Anzu