Bistro Benoit

[Nathan]

Benoit is getting a beating cause it's just not very good.

and I can't help but think that a mixture of the Ducasse name and sentimentality for that food is causing some to overrate it.

sorry, just my opinion.

edit: and Adour has gotten sterling reviews so obviously Ducasse can "catch a break" with NY critics.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Nathan (log)

[hannnah]

The vast majority of the patrons while we were there on Saturday were 65-plus. I suspect a lot of that had to do with the time, though, since we were there pre-theater, and the average was skewing slightly younger by the time we left.

I don't really have anything to add as far as the entrees or desserts go - the cassoulet and quenelles are good, as are the baba and nougat glacé, although I confess to wondering what the baba would be like with a darker rum.

My favorite thing all evening, though, was the large crock of cornichons and pickled onions that gets brought out with the pâté en croûte. Usually you get 2 or 3 measly cornichons with a serving of pâté, or perhaps a small dish of 5 or 6 if the place is feeling particularly generous. But to finally get enough cornichons with the flippin' pâté without having to ask, with onions to boot -- bliss! rapture!

[Sneakeater]

Nostalgia? When there are plenty of current places serving a roughly similar type of food, but worse?

If someone could explain to me how Balthazar is in any way better than Benoit (I mean, sure, Balthazar is more consistent -- but more consistent at a lower level), I'd like to hear and understand it.

[sethd]

Benoit is getting a beating cause it's just not very good.

and I can't help but think that a mixture of the Ducasse name and sentimentality for that food is causing some to overrate it.

sorry, just my opinion.

edit:  and Adour has gotten sterling reviews so obviously Ducasse can "catch a break" with NY critics.

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Adour has neither had consistent praise from professional critics nor members of this board and others of its type.

Ducasse has consistently been held to a different standard than any other top chef in new york.

[oakapple]

There are very few food writers — either on the blogs or pro reviewers — who can appreciate novelties done well, and who can also appreciate classics done well.

Food boards tend to be dominated overwhelmingly by those who are looking for the next greatest thing, preferably served without tablecloths or bow ties. I hasten to add that Fat Guy is an exception to the rule, and there are some others, such as Sneakeater. But the food board population is dominated by those who don't appreciate what Ducasse is trying to do, even when it's done well.

Critics, unfortunately, are like most of the food board population, though they are more sophisticated, are generally better writers, and have deep-pocketed corporations funding their meals.

The additional problem for Benoit is that, as even its admirers admit, it is uneven. When you take an uneven restaurant, and add to it the modern bias against classic cuisine, and you have all the makings for a critical train wreck.

[Nathan]

1. first off, Bar Boulud blows Benoit out of the water.

2. and yes, I think Balthazar's consistency makes it better as well. Benoit apparently can't even do frites right!

3. and yes, I thought the langue du veau was amazing at Benoit.

[Fat Guy]

One star from Frank Bruni:

http://events.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/dinin...ews/09rest.html

I think he got a few things right and a few things wrong, for example his assessment of the charcuterie platter is nutty:

The charcuterie plate, for example, seemed thrown together. On the visual front, it was a jumble; on the gustatory one, it didn’t measure up to what you get at Bar Boulud, which has raised the charcuterie bar. But the veal tongue — a component of this plate as well as its own dish — almost redeemed it.

While the Lucullus-style tongue and foie gras item is indeed superb, so is most everything else. That pate en croute, for example, is amazing.

I do think, however, that Benoit sets itself up for this review by being too slow to refine its operation. My guess is that over the next year the Ducasse organization will hammer out the kinks and the food will be more even across the range of the menu. But the restaurant will not likely be reviewed again by this critic, who seems not to think it's at all significant.

And the complaint about the hostess saying goodbye in Italian is borderline idiotic.

[Fat Guy]

1.  first off, Bar Boulud blows Benoit out of the water.

Are you talking about charcuterie or overall? I disagree with either claim but am interested in which you're making.

2.  and yes, I think Balthazar's consistency makes it better as well.  Benoit apparently can't even do frites right!

The good dishes at Benoit are categorically superior to anything I've had at Balthazar. The worst dishes at Benoit are not. The frites at Balthazar are better.

[oakapple]

I do think, however, that Benoit sets itself up for this review by being too slow to refine its operation.

It's awfully hard to fix these kinds of problems during the review cycle. I can't think of many restaurants that have managed it. It seems to me Benoit simply wasn't ready.

My guess is that over the next year the Ducasse organization will hammer out the kinks and the food will be more even across the range of the menu. But the restaurant will not likely be reviewed again by this critic, who seems not to think it's at all significant.

That is about par for the course from a critic who, it seems, has hardly ever visited a French restaurant voluntarily. But as you know, we're living in an era when re-reviews are awfully difficult to get. In any case, I think we're in the final year of Bruni's tenure, and it would take a remarkable turnaround to induce a return visit.

And the complaint about the hostess saying goodbye in Italian is borderline idiotic.

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It sort of reminds me of the comment about the music in his very first review, Babbo. He was using it as a rhetorical "hook" — a way of getting around to the things he really needed to talk about. Bruni does that a lot. If his point was, "A lot of things at Benoit are just a little bit off," there were better ways to express it. Edited July 9, 2008 by oakapple (log)

[fortedei]

From Frank Bruni's review in today's NYT.

At the new restaurant Benoit one of my most memorable experiences — a telling one, too — came not while I was on a red velvet banquette in the dining room and not even while I was in the gloomy bar up front, but while I was on my way out the door. A hostess called after my companions and me. She wanted to bid us adieu. Except it wasn’t adieu she bid. It was this:“Ciao!”Followed by this:“Grazie!” We had just, mind you, eaten cassoulet. And escargot. Also gougères and quenelles and onion soup and tarte Tatin: a Gallic codger of a meal; a meal that could justifiably be served with a beret as a placemat and miniature Eiffel Towers as napkin rings; a meal that reveled in fusty French tradition and trafficked in frowzy French stereotype. But our farewell and our thanks were in Italian. It was the kind of false note that a restaurant this insistently steeped in ethnic classicism can’t afford. And it was a small misstep that echoed a few bigger ones on that night and presaged some to come on others.

[Nathan]

1.  first off, Bar Boulud blows Benoit out of the water.

Are you talking about charcuterie or overall? I disagree with either claim but am interested in which you're making.

both. at least for ordinary diners.

[weinoo]

and I can't help but think that a mixture of the Ducasse name and sentimentality for that food is causing some to overrate it.

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Actually, I think the opposite is true - causing many to underrate it. Platt's zero-star takedown, for instance, smacks of some weird anti-Ducasse sentiment that he must have.

Some of the charcuterie platter at Benoit is easily the equal of BB - some is not.

And I think Balthazar behaves more like a brasserie than a bistro - there's absolutely no comparison with the energy in the room, or the fries.

[Fat Guy]

Some of the charcuterie platter at Benoit is easily the equal of BB - some is not.

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I'd amend that first part to say that the best Benoit charcuterie items are superior to what's being served at Bar Boulud. I haven't tried 100% of the BB charcuterie items but I've had the BB grand assortment and there's nothing in that assortment to rival the Lucullus-style tongue or the pate en croute at Benoit. And even hard-line anti-preferentialists will have to admit that the chef can't just go in the back and whip up superior charcuterie for a VIP -- so I do believe I've tasted the same things as everybody else (as well as Frank Bruni for whom being recognized on every visit didn't seem to matter).

With respect to the other savory dishes, I just don't think Bar Boulud is all that good. Benoit, which is certainly uneven, at least shines (big time) in places. BB doesn't seem to shine at all -- though I haven't done as comprehensive a tasting as I'd like to do.

And on the dessert front any comparison would be kind of a joke. Benoit is operating in a whole different, superior category.

[Nathan]

and I can't help but think that a mixture of the Ducasse name and sentimentality for that food is causing some to overrate it.

←

Some of the charcuterie platter at Benoit is easily the equal of BB - some is not.

And I think Balthazar behaves more like a brasserie than a bistro - there's absolutely no comparison with the energy in the room, or the fries.

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right. (actually, the langue du veau is better than anything at Boulud....but the rest are mostly inferior).

as for brasserie/bistro.....like trattoria/osteria...today that is a distinction without a difference. heck, they're interchangeable in France now.

[Nathan]

I'll also say that I'll take the duck entree I had at Balthazar over the one I had at Benoit any day of the week.

I thought the mains at Bar Boulud were kind of boring...but there are actively BAD ones at Benoit.

[Sneakeater]

1.  first off, Bar Boulud blows Benoit out of the water.

Are you talking about charcuterie or overall? I disagree with either claim but am interested in which you're making.

2.  and yes, I think Balthazar's consistency makes it better as well.  Benoit apparently can't even do frites right!

The good dishes at Benoit are categorically superior to anything I've had at Balthazar. The worst dishes at Benoit are not. The frites at Balthazar are better.

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For whatever it's worth, I wanted to express my agreement with every word FG wrote in this post.

[Sneakeater]

Also, the duck I had at Benoit was not only better than any duck I've ever had at Balthazar. It was better than any anything I've ever had at Balthazar.

They must have thought I was Bruni.

[weinoo]

Also, the duck I had at Benoit was not only better than any duck I've ever had at Balthazar.  It was better than any anything I've ever had at Balthazar.

They must have thought I was Bruni.

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Or, they knew you were Sneakeater.

[ulterior epicure]

Also, the duck I had at Benoit was not only better than any duck I've ever had at Balthazar.  It was better than any anything I've ever had at Balthazar.

They must have thought I was Bruni.

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Or, they knew you were Sneakeater.

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In which case, he's not very effectively sneak eating, is he?

I find it vexing that most of their menu links don't work.

Can anyone describe the Mister Mystère. When the website's menus were properly displaying, I remember it reading like a hazelnut frappé.

[tan319]

What I liked about the review was how vexed Bruni was over the hostess (?) bidding his party goodbye in Italian, like French people aren't allowed to say "Ciao".

I hear that more in France than anything else.

[Fat Guy]

Can anyone describe the Mister Mystère.  When the website's menus were properly displaying, I remember it reading like a hazelnut frappé.

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The menu description is "iced hazelnut mousse." I've seen it go out but haven't tried it.

[Fat Guy]

P.S. While the Benoit website is not functioning properly, there's a decent account of a probably-somewhat-out-of-date menu on the New York magazine website.

[hannnah]

That's mostly accurate as of Saturday, with the addition of cervelle de canut under the cheeses, and swapping the baba for the savarin that's listed on the dessert menu. Also, I don't remember seeing the choron sauce listed with the salmon, but that may have been an oversight on my part.

[Lesley C]

Anyway Bruni got that whole adieu thing wrong.

You would never say adieu to a customer. You would say "au revoir". Adieu is something you say when you never intend on seeing someone again -- it's almost an insult. And yes, French people say Ciao all the time.

[Fat Guy]

And yes, French people say Ciao all the time.

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This reminds me of when I wrote a piece on rodizio restaurants in New York city and made fun of them for inauthentically serving sushi on the buffet. A Brazilian guy emailed me photos of about 20 rodizios in Brazil that served sushi on the buffet, and explained that this was standard practice and totally authentic to the genre. Oops.