Setagaya

[Hiroyuki]

In that case, raji and docsconz, consider not ordering those pickles the next time you eat ramen.    Just consider how much salt a bowl of ramen has in it, which is at least 5 g and probably more.

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no tsukemono? dame!

Well it IS shiyoramen, after all. SHIO = SALT Don't other varieties have a lot less salt, say miso or tonkotsu?

I didn't read the Japanese review yet, but yes, technically the only other ramenya at this level is Santouka @ the Mitsuwa, and they've only had to deal with Japanese customers for the most part. Can't wait to see what a few weeks of EV-types is going to do to the Setagaya crew

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I can't find detailed information on the salt content of each type of ramen, but I don't think the salt content significantly differs from one type to another.

According to the websites below, noodle dishes (udon, soba, and ramen) are typically in the range of about 4-7% salt contents per bowl.

http://www.shimouma-pha.co.jp/contents17.htm

http://www.necf.jp/contents/insurance/mame/sio/chomiryo.html

(Japanese only)

I'm healthy now, but my father is hypertensive, so I really can't take chances.

[dagordon]

I just had my mind blown by opting for the "separation of noodle and soup" at Setagaya.

Regardless of what the servers there might tell you, and what the descriptions on the menu might suggest, the cha-syu tsuke-men (pork ramen with separation of noodle and soup) is NOT just the cha-syu-men (pork ramen) with the noodles and the soup separated.

For one thing, the noodles in the cha-syu tsuke-men bear little resemblance to the noodles in the cha-syu-men. They are substantially thicker than even the thickest of the apparently three different thicknesses of noodles in the latter, almost resembling linguini. They're flat, not round.

As for the broth, the broth in the cha-syu tsuke-men is like the broth in the cha-syu-men on steroids. It's like the broth in the cha-syu-men, only with immensely more pork flavor, immensely more fish flavor, something like a vinegary flavor, and, yes, immensely more salt. (weinoo, if you find this too salty you may be pleasantly surprised by the regular ramen.) The pork was cut up into cubes instead of served in slices, there was much more scallion, and there was no egg.

It was freaking amazing.

I too am a ramen novice; maybe someone more enlightened can tell us whether the differences between the regular ramen and the separated ramen are in some way standard.

[Hiroyuki]

Tsuke men is said to be invented by Yamagishi Kazuo, who used to run Taishoken.

Here is some description of Taishoken:

http://www.rameniac.com/resource/comments/...ings_must_pass/

Images of various tsukemen can be found here.

I haven't had tsukemen at Taishoken, but I was a fan of tsuke men at Daio (ramen shop chain specializing in tsuke men) when I lived in Tokyo. As you pointed out, the broth is stronger and the noodles are thicker.

[alwang]

I just had my mind blown by opting for the "separation of noodle and soup" at Setagaya.

I've decided I prefer the cha-syu-men to the cha-syu tsuke-men, by a narrow margin. I do prefer the noodles in the tsuke-men, which retain all the bounce and character of the standard thinner noodles. The broth is also definitely porkier, and the tsuke-men seems to have a higher ratio of pork belly to pork loin meat, which is good. However, I find while the broth is deeper in pork flavor, it's overall less complex: there's less of a seafood flavor to me, and the joy of the standard ramen is how well balanced the broth is. The tsuke-men appears to also be missing the hokate scallop oil, the ground dried scallops, and the seaweed, all of which may explain the lesser seafood flavor. Or it could just be because the porkiness and saltiness overwhelms overything else.

I also was disappointed not to get some egg, and the dish on a whole makes for a less visually appealing presentation.

Don't get me wrong, the tsuke-men is a very good bowl of noodles, and possibly better than any other bowl of ramen in the city. It's worth trying once. However, I find myself craving the balanced composition of the normal ramen.

[herbacidal]

Tried to go to Ony over the weekend, but then I found that it went off quietly in the night.

Setagaya will have to be my replacement.

I knew it was too good to be true; Ony never had enough business when I ate there, but I just wrote it off to being there at off-times.

[raji]

Doc wouldn't we call where Setagaya is the East Village rather than LES?

Unless it's their specialty I usually opt out of the tsukemen, rather I'll get a hiyasiichuuka or somen when I'm in the mood for it. tsukemen usually has fatter noodles and a simpler broth, it's more of a dipping sauce in some cases.... for me, I like thinner noodles like kyuushu style and hakatamen, and I rather do like the artistry of the entire bowl of ramen put together, as well as having to devour it over the course of 5-10 minutes...

[weinoo]

Doc wouldn't we call where Setagaya is the East Village rather than LES?

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In my book, yes...lower east side starting below Houston St.

[Gastro888]

We went for ramen the other day and ate the cha-syu-men and the cha-syu tsukemen plus the deluxe appetizer platter with marinated bamboo shoots, egg and cha-syu. In all, 30 bucks before tip.

Overall the food was good. I enjoyed the complexity of the cha-syun-men more than the tsukemen but I must say the thicker noodles and intense broth were tasty. For both dishes, the broth was tasty, the noodles were firm. The cha-syu, however, was dry. The fatty parts were delicious and had the nice smokiness from the charcoal grill but the meat was dry and overcooked. This being said, I wish we could've gotten all pork belly instead of the belly/loin mix in our noodles.

We had no wait and the staff was, well, it's a noodle bar so I don't expect much. On the menu that's posted outside they had gyoza but the menus at each seat did not. Given how small their kitchen is, maybe it was too much for them to have on the menu?

Is it worth waiting in line for? No. Go during an off hour so you don't have to wait.

[larrylee]

Ony closed quite some time ago. Just saying. I liked their summer noodle dishes.

[docsconz]

Doc wouldn't we call where Setagaya is the East Village rather than LES?

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In my book, yes...lower east side starting below Houston St.

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I stand corrected.

[Todd36]

Reviews in Japanese community are generally good, although not universelly good.

[ned]

The cha-syu, however, was dry.  The fatty parts were delicious and had the nice smokiness from the charcoal grill but the meat was dry and overcooked.  This being said, I wish we could've gotten all pork belly instead of the belly/loin mix in our noodles. 

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My experience on three or four visits has been of very tasty pork, well cooked and moist. I ordered seconds of it last time I was there.

[Gastro888]

The cha-syu, however, was dry.  The fatty parts were delicious and had the nice smokiness from the charcoal grill but the meat was dry and overcooked.  This being said, I wish we could've gotten all pork belly instead of the belly/loin mix in our noodles. 

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My experience on three or four visits has been of very tasty pork, well cooked and moist. I ordered seconds of it last time I was there.

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Was there this past Wednesday. It was a good experience overall but nothing worth standing in line for. The pork was dry and overcooked. If you had good pork the last three or four times you were there, than you were lucky.

I'd go again next time I'm in the 'hood.

[raji]

The cha-syu, however, was dry.  The fatty parts were delicious and had the nice smokiness from the charcoal grill but the meat was dry and overcooked.  This being said, I wish we could've gotten all pork belly instead of the belly/loin mix in our noodles. 

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My experience on three or four visits has been of very tasty pork, well cooked and moist. I ordered seconds of it last time I was there.

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Was there this past Wednesday. It was a good experience overall but nothing worth standing in line for. The pork was dry and overcooked. If you had good pork the last three or four times you were there, than you were lucky.

I'd go again next time I'm in the 'hood.

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Turns out a friend of a friend works there. Brought her home chyasuu from the kitchen!

Anyway, that doesn't mean I'll be getting any sort of "hookup", but that DOES mean I'll be trying real soon and will report back. And I am a self-confessed ramen gourmet. Just too damn hot out these days to really be craving a greasy salty, or even fishy bowl of any hot broth...

[alwang]

Turns out a friend of a friend works there. Brought her home chyasuu from the kitchen!

Anyway, that doesn't mean I'll be getting any sort of "hookup", but that DOES mean I'll be trying real soon and will report back. And I am a self-confessed ramen gourmet. Just too damn hot out these days to really be craving a greasy salty, or even fishy bowl of any hot broth...

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Raji, as a ramen gourmet, what's your ideal concerning greasiness of the broth? One of the problems I had with the tsuke-men was that it was considerably greasier than the standard broth.

-a

[raji]

OK I may have eaten every kind of ramen you could while living in Japan; I'd still put up the big bat signal for Hiroyuki or other Japanese nationals who grew up with it...

But IMHO.... I think greasiness for greasiness sake is a big no-no but happens all too often. The reason I love tonkotsuramen and other meat-brothed ramens vs shiyo, miso, shio ramen is because while they can be greasy, it is all incredibly great flavor in there, similar to a great Pho or Soluntang...

I think the tsukeman was probably greasier simply because it is more concentrated and more along the lines of a dipping sauce vs. the amount of broth you get with a regular ramen

[Hiroyuki]

I wonder if their tsukemen's dipping sauce is really so greasy. I checked out through some photos of it on the Internet, but it didn't look particularly greasy to me. It's quite natural that a dipping sauce is much saltier than a regular ramen broth, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's greasier.

Talking of tonkotsu ramen, tonkotsu broth itself is not so greasy. It's "seabura" (those chunks of pork fat that are sprinkled on ramen just before serving) that makes tonkotsu ramen (and other types of ramen) all greasy, right?

I grew up with Tokyo-style ramen, the type of ramen that you can see in the movie Tampopo, medium thick noodles with chicken-flavored, soy-based, non-greasy, clear soup and some very classic toppings like nori, naruto, boiled spinach, thin slices of pork, and shinachiku, and that's the type of ramen I like the best.

Another thing I want to say is that ramen should be cheap, something that you can get for 400 to 600 yen per bowl. I really don't understand all the fuss about recent, more expensive (> 1000 yen) ramen. If I decide to pay more than 1000 yen for a meal, I will defininitely have something more decent and healthy!

[alwang]

I wonder if their tsukemen's dipping sauce is really so greasy.  I checked out through some photos of it on the Internet, but it didn't look particularly greasy to me.  It's quite natural that a dipping sauce is much saltier than a regular ramen broth, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's greasier.

Cha-syu Tsuke-men:

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/vS3v_PciVtK...FWpSPZeggXLvRAQ

Cha-syu-men:

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/vS3v_PciVtK...Lsiu--v0p0iAZYQ

As I helped consume both of these particular bowls of noodles, I can confidently say the first was greasier than the second.

-a

[Hiroyuki]

Thanks for the links! It is greasy!! Incredibly greasy!

I saw these photos of Setagaya's tsukemen. Maybe the American version of tsukemen is quite different from the original?

[larrylee]

Thanks for the links!  It is greasy!!   Incredibly greasy!

I saw these photos of Setagaya's tsukemen.  Maybe the American version of tsukemen is quite different from the original?

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That does seem a bit extreme. This is only one restaurant... we'd need a larger sample to be sure.

[Fat Guy]

Maybe I'm just not a true lover of this style of ramen, but I was rather underwhelmed by Setagaya.

We had a superfluous appetizer platter of exactly the same things that come in the ramen . . .

And we tried the two main variants: hot in soup, and cold/deconstructed . . .

The pork was excellent. I thought the noodles in the latter version were much better than in the soup version, however the broth on the side was overly sweet and, to me, borderline inedible. The seafood-heavy broth with the regular ramen just didn't do the trick for me. I vastly prefer a meat broth, and would much rather have Momofuku's noodle soups any day.

By the way, what's the deal with the restaurant Setagaya seems to be sharing space with?

Has anybody been able to find a place on the website to click for English?

http://setaga-ya.com/

[Hiroyuki]

Apparently, they don't have a website in English.

Thanks for the photos, especially the last one. Now I can see why they call their tsukemen hira (= flat) tsukemen.

[Hiroyuki]

According to this webpage of Setagaya's website,

◆つけ麺 Tsuke-men

塩らーめん同様日本の味を再現しております。ニューヨークで是非本格的なつけ麺を食べて頂きたいです。

Tsuke-men

Just like shio ramen, we reproduce the flavor in Japan. We'd like you to have the authentic tsuke-men in New York.

[raji]

I too was underwhelmed by Setagaya. I wouldn't have been if it was $6 and I liked their style of shioramen more than I do. But it wasn't and I don't...

It would be REALLY great if it was open until 6am or 24 hours and was less expensive. Ramen is what you stumble in drunk to get... THENNNN it really hits the spot

Thing is, ramen is supposed to be a cheap food - Hiroyuki speaks the truth here:

"Another thing I want to say is that ramen should be cheap, something that you can get for 400 to 600 yen per bowl. I really don't understand all the fuss about recent, more expensive (> 1000 yen) ramen. If I decide to pay more than 1000 yen for a meal, I will defininitely have something more decent and healthy!"

Maybe I'm just not a true lover of this style of ramen, but I was rather underwhelmed by Setagaya.

We had a superfluous appetizer platter of exactly the same things that come in the ramen . . .

And we tried the two main variants: hot in soup, and cold/deconstructed . . .

The pork was excellent. I thought the noodles in the latter version were much better than in the soup version, however the broth on the side was overly sweet and, to me, borderline inedible. The seafood-heavy broth with the regular ramen just didn't do the trick for me. I vastly prefer a meat broth, and would much rather have Momofuku's noodle soups any day.

By the way, what's the deal with the restaurant Setagaya seems to be sharing space with?

Has anybody been able to find a place on the website to click for English?

http://setaga-ya.com/

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[weinoo]

I too was underwhelmed by Setagaya. I wouldn't have been if it was $6 and I liked their style of shioramen more than I do. But it wasn't and I don't...

It would be REALLY great if it was open until 6am or 24 hours and was less expensive. Ramen is what you stumble in drunk to get... THENNNN it really hits the spot

Thing is, ramen is supposed to be a cheap food - Hiroyuki speaks the truth here:

"Another thing I want to say is that ramen should be cheap, something that you can get for 400 to 600 yen per bowl. I really don't understand all the fuss about recent, more expensive (> 1000 yen) ramen. If I decide to pay more than 1000 yen for a meal, I will defininitely have something more decent and healthy!"

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Probably why I like Rai-Rai Ken best of all...something about the price! And never having been to Japan, perhaps the authenticity of the place does it for me too (though how would I know never having been there ).