Setagaya

[docsconz]

I am not an expert in ramen. I can not evaluate authenticity nor am I in a position to compare various ramen restaurants. What I can say though is that Setagaya is absolutely terrific. The ramen I had there was simply outstanding and one of the best value dishes for $11 anywhere.

We started with seaweed salad and various pickled vegetables, both of which were very good and satisfying but not unlike versions that I have had elsewhere.

The ramen is a mix of three different thicknesses of ramen noodles "to give a unique feel and curiosity to the taste." I did not concentrate on trying to distinguish the different thicknesses as I was intent on simply savoring the deeply flavorful dish.

The kitchen is quite compact and efficient. The staff neds to and does a good job of keeping out of each other's way.

The noodles are cooked in individual batches for exactly fifty seconds. The excess water is shaken out directly onto the floor.

The wonderful, slow-cooked pork belly is finished over the Japanese grill.

The ramen with noodles and broth combined. Another version separates the two with the noodles to be added at the time of eating.

The amazingly deep and rich broth is made with pork bone, chicken and chicken bone, two kinds of Japanese seaweed; dried mushrooms, scallops and anchovies; garlic ginger, cabbage and red pepper. This is then combined with the rest of the ingredients including the pork, a not quite hard-boiled chicken egg, Aosha seaweed, dried scallop flakes, julienned scallion, bamboo shoots and scallop based Hotate oil. The sublime saltiness is provided by Vietnamese sea salt.

The restaurant and the food certainly has an aura of authenticity. Whether or not it truly is just doesn't matter in my book so long as the product is as wonderful as this is. I recommend it.

[MattJohnson]

The one thing every city needs is a good noodle shop. There isn't one in my town (that I know of - if anyone knows a great ramen shop in Milwaukee, pm me). Next time I'm in NYC I'm definitely gonna check this one out. Usually Sapporo East is on my short list.

[chetlemon]

I am not an expert in ramen. I can not evaluate authenticity

Same disclaimer for myself, and I'll also say that I loved Setagaya. The flavor of the broth seemed distinctly better to the broth at Momofuku Noodle Bar.

[raji]

I loved Setagaya.  The flavor of the broth seemed distinctly better to the broth at Momofuku Noodle Bar.

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Apples and oranges!

[larrylee]

I loved Setagaya.  The flavor of the broth seemed distinctly better to the broth at Momofuku Noodle Bar.

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Apples and oranges!

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Agreed 100%. It's not a valid comparison, especially in light of the fact that Chang makes no bones that his ramen is not Japanese style.

[Hiroyuki]

I am not an expert in ramen. I can not evaluate authenticity nor am I in a position to compare various ramen restaurants. What I can say though is that Setagaya is absolutely terrific. The ramen I had there was simply outstanding and one of the best value dishes for $11 anywhere.

We started with seaweed salad and various pickled vegetables, both of which were very good and satisfying but not unlike versions that I have had elsewhere.

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Thanks for the great report, docsconz. Ramen shop specializing in shio ramen in New York!? It is often said that shio ramen is the hardest to make of the three types (shio (salt), shoyu (soy sauce), and miso).

The red pickle is shiba zuke (eggplant pickled in salt and red perilla leaves), the green one is takana zuke, and the yellow one is takuan (daikon pickle).

[docsconz]

I loved Setagaya.  The flavor of the broth seemed distinctly better to the broth at Momofuku Noodle Bar.

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Apples and oranges!

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Agreed 100%. It's not a valid comparison, especially in light of the fact that Chang makes no bones that his ramen is not Japanese style.

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I'm not comparing the two as I have never had Chang's, but I think it is certainly valid to compare them as far as flavor and overall culinary satisfaction. One may in fact be a "better" dish than the other regardless of authenticity. For all I know Chang's may be even better, Japanese style or not, though that would be an incredible feat.

[docsconz]

I am not an expert in ramen. I can not evaluate authenticity nor am I in a position to compare various ramen restaurants. What I can say though is that Setagaya is absolutely terrific. The ramen I had there was simply outstanding and one of the best value dishes for $11 anywhere.

We started with seaweed salad and various pickled vegetables, both of which were very good and satisfying but not unlike versions that I have had elsewhere.

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Thanks for the great report, docsconz. Ramen shop specializing in shio ramen in New York!? It is often said that shio ramen is the hardest to make of the three types (shio (salt), shoyu (soy sauce), and miso).

The red pickle is shiba zuke (eggplant pickled in salt and red perilla leaves), the green one is takana zuke, and the yellow one is takuan (daikon pickle).

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Thank you for the names, Hiroyuki.

[raji]

I loved Setagaya.  The flavor of the broth seemed distinctly better to the broth at Momofuku Noodle Bar.

←

Apples and oranges!

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Agreed 100%. It's not a valid comparison, especially in light of the fact that Chang makes no bones that his ramen is not Japanese style.

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I'm not comparing the two as I have never had Chang's, but I think it is certainly valid to compare them as far as flavor and overall culinary satisfaction. One may in fact be a "better" dish than the other regardless of authenticity. For all I know Chang's may be even better, Japanese style or not, though that would be an incredible feat.

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Thank you doc for the pics and report!!!! Next rainy day, I am THERE. Ramen is so perfect on a rainy day.

Well, I still haven't had momofuku's ramen (ducks) but take for instance, Udon - I love both Korean and Japanese Udon but I only compare Japanese Udon to other Japanese Udon....

Likewise, I believe the shortlist to compare Setagaya to is Menkuitei, Menchankotei, Santouka, and perhaps Minca or Rairaiken?

I used to eat Santouka on a regular basis in Japan so I'm kind of a devotee... I never went to Setagaya and I hope I like it, I'm just a curmudgeon perhaps because I had the luxury of being picky.

Imagine a place where you can have your burger prepared 100X more different than perhaps NYC alone, and that's Japan and it's assortment of ramen shops, styles, chains, and choices. It's absolutely mad.

Edited July 12, 2007 by raji (log)

[docsconz]

Certainly, I have no sense as to how Setagaya's ramen compares to other good ramen's, especially in Japan. The point I was and am trying to make is that I think that it will be difficult to find a better dish for $11 anywhere. It is hardy, delicious and totally satisfying. I am certainly curious though as to how ramen afficionados will stack it up against others available in NY, the USA or the world including , of course, Japan. In the meantime, I was thrilled with this ramen regardless of its relative merits and that was on an extremely hot and sultry summer evening. I agree that it would likely be that much better on a rainy night or a crisp autumn one.

[weinoo]

I stopped by for lunch the other (really hot!) day. Had the roast pork ramen, served separately from the noodles, along with the above plate of pickles.

I really liked the noodles - texturally, they were so much different than the ramen I've had at RaiRaiKen, Minca, Momo, et. al. Really nice and chewy, and the pork itself was wonderful...the broth was knockout salty, to my taste, and this includes comparing it to Momo's, which I also find pretty darn salty, as well as Rai Rai Ken's (which, imo, is the best bargain of them all!).

I can't wait to try this on a nice, cool rainy day as well.

[michael_g]

I really liked the noodles - texturally, they were so much different than the ramen I've had at RaiRaiKen, Minca, Momo, et. al.  Really nice and chewy, and the pork itself was wonderful...the broth was knockout salty, to my taste, and this includes comparing it to Momo's, which I also find pretty darn salty, as well as Rai Rai Ken's (which, imo, is the best bargain of them all!).

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I went to Rai Rai Ken for the first time last weekend and loved the noodles -- they had a really nice bite, and the broth was good, but I'm no expert. You're definitely right about the bargain -- $8.95 or so for a big bowl. Would you say that Setagaya is better than Rai Rai Ken, or just different?

[larrylee]

I'm not comparing the two as I have never had Chang's, but I think it is certainly valid to compare them as far as flavor and overall culinary satisfaction. One may in fact be a "better" dish than the other regardless of authenticity. For all I know Chang's may be even better, Japanese style or not, though that would be an incredible feat.

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Doc, neither Raji nor I were directing our comments to you. The comparison between Setagaya and Momofuku was made by chetlemon.Sorry for the confusion!

[weinoo]

I really liked the noodles - texturally, they were so much different than the ramen I've had at RaiRaiKen, Minca, Momo, et. al.  Really nice and chewy, and the pork itself was wonderful...the broth was knockout salty, to my taste, and this includes comparing it to Momo's, which I also find pretty darn salty, as well as Rai Rai Ken's (which, imo, is the best bargain of them all!).

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I went to Rai Rai Ken for the first time last weekend and loved the noodles -- they had a really nice bite, and the broth was good, but I'm no expert. You're definitely right about the bargain -- $8.95 or so for a big bowl. Would you say that Setagaya is better than Rai Rai Ken, or just different?

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I would say different; since I'm not a ramen expert either, can't say which one is more traditional or better.

[raji]

I'm not comparing the two as I have never had Chang's, but I think it is certainly valid to compare them as far as flavor and overall culinary satisfaction. One may in fact be a "better" dish than the other regardless of authenticity. For all I know Chang's may be even better, Japanese style or not, though that would be an incredible feat.

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Doc, neither Raji nor I were directing our comments to you. The comparison between Setagaya and Momofuku was made by chetlemon.Sorry for the confusion!

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ditto!

[docsconz]

Larry and Raji, I didn't take the comment as directed toward me. I just thought the comparison was fair in that no-one had stated that the comparison was based on authenticity. I think it is totally valid to compare the two ramen for overall taste and quality and others as well. I however, can not yet make that comparison since I haven't had David Chang's ramen. If it is as good or better than Setagaya's then it is truly a great dish regardless of authenticity. It may still be an excellent dish if it doesn't prove to be as good as Setagaya's.

The Setagaya ramen is salty, though I didn't find it overly salty at the time. later on, however, I was quite thirsty. The weather may have been a contributing factor as well.

[raji]

Imagine a place where you can have your burger prepared 100X more different than perhaps NYC alone, and that's Japan and it's assortment of ramen shops, styles, chains, and choices. It's absolutely mad.

As you can see there's a lot of competition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKDpSuorPi8

[Hiroyuki]

This review by a Japanese (in Japanese only) speaks very highly of their ramen.

日本でラーメン戦争を勝ち抜くようなレベルのラーメンは、マンハッタン初だろう。

The ramen, at the level that can survive the ramen war in Japan, is probably the first in Manhattan.

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As for the ramen broth, do you guys all drink it up?? Don't take the movie Tampopo too seriously...

[larrylee]

As for the ramen broth, do you guys all drink it up??  Don't take the movie Tampopo too seriously...

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A long time ago, when I was very hungry, I did a few times. But if you order as a set with gyoza, onigiri, or some such... it turns out to be quite a bit of food... so I leave broth. Which is pretty much what I've seen every other Japanese person do.

[docsconz]

I couldn't imagine not drinking that broth up.

[raji]

This review by a Japanese (in Japanese only) speaks very highly of their ramen.

日本でラーメン戦争を勝ち抜くようなレベルのラーメンは、マンハッタン初だろう。

The ramen, at the level that can survive the ramen war in Japan, is probably the first in Manhattan.

***

As for the ramen broth, do you guys all drink it up?? Don't take the movie Tampopo too seriously...

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Depends on the broth, doesn't it..... a good tonkotsu broth, a sheet of snow outside, I will grab the sesame grinder, sesame oil, vinegar, and chili oil and drink every last drop....

[Hiroyuki]

In that case, raji and docsconz, consider not ordering those pickles the next time you eat ramen. Just consider how much salt a bowl of ramen has in it, which is at least 5 g and probably more.

[Pan]

John, great report!

How was the crowd/line when you went? I've been reading reports on Chowhound of lines long enough for people to decide to leave.

Also, is all their broth equally salty?

Edited July 13, 2007 by Pan (log)

[docsconz]

John, great report!

How was the crowd/line when you went? I've been reading reports on Chowhound of lines long enough for people to decide to leave.

Also, is all their broth equally salty?

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We got there around 7:30 and waited about ten minutes. The line got longer after us, but turnover was fairly rapid. As for people leaving - it is NYC where people are notoriously impatient. This was worth waiting for.

I don't really know the answer to your final question, Michael, but I believe they have one basic broth. While it was well seasoned, it never tasted overtly salty to me.

[raji]

In that case, raji and docsconz, consider not ordering those pickles the next time you eat ramen.   Just consider how much salt a bowl of ramen has in it, which is at least 5 g and probably more.

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no tsukemono? dame!

Well it IS shiyoramen, after all. SHIO = SALT Don't other varieties have a lot less salt, say miso or tonkotsu?

I didn't read the Japanese review yet, but yes, technically the only other ramenya at this level is Santouka @ the Mitsuwa, and they've only had to deal with Japanese customers for the most part. Can't wait to see what a few weeks of EV-types is going to do to the Setagaya crew

Edited July 13, 2007 by raji (log)