Bux

fresh_a, I'm glad you jumped in. For the most part, I share your opinion about the professionalism of of restaurateurs and concierges. I'm particularly inclined to think well of everyone at l'Astrance because we were so well treated when there. Nevertheless, the original poster on this thread received unprofessional service from someone. I can't see from this report that any fault lies in her behavior. She called the concierge to secure a table for one month ahead and then confirmed and reconfirmed on two successive days that she had her reservation. Almost a month later, just days before she is scheduled to arrive, he calls to say that when he reconfimed the reservation, l'Astrance had cancelled it. Assuming our poster is not lying and why would she, someone screwed up. I can't ask you who that person or organisation is. You don't know and I wouldn't expect you to tell me if you did. I can ask when it's customary for a concierge to confirm a reservation--or how far in advance that call is usually made. It seems to me that I usually reconfirm the day before, but I have checked in to a hotel and had the concierge tell me he's already confirmed my dinner reservation for the next day. So it's not unusual for a concierge to confirm a reservation even when the guest hasn't actually arrived in Paris.

Without wanting to imply support for either side, I'd buy that use of refinement if we noted that it was being used as in refined white flour or refined sugar. Refinement being the result of being made more complex. Sangria is more refined than plain red wine would be an example. That would seem to make sense. Although my personal taste would lead me to prefer one way over the other, there's no evidence my taste couldn't evolve to the point where I could appreciate the other over the one I currently favor. The nuances between cusines can often be compared on a scale, but just as often (more often?) they cannot. I might prefer jamon pata negra to prosciutto, but I can't compare either to an andouille de Guemene.

I think intelligence is a always a far more important factor than people are likely to give credit in many fields especially one like cooking which for all its glory as an art form, had generally been seen as blue collar work until lately in the US. Arguments for and against a formal education and an education in the craft and art of cooking are separate. There's no question a chef needs the latter and it doesn't matter in the long run whether that education comes from a culinary school or on the job. Who you are exposed to and how you apply yourself will make a far bigger difference between individuals. I also suspect some people will far better one way or the other due to their own nature. I'm not sure a few years spent getting a formal education at that age will slow down a career enough to make any difference by the time one is 35 or so. I think a formal education can be a real help in developing one's mental capacities and would urge anyone to get a liberal arts education if they could afford it. On the other hand, my personal opinion of most colleges and the faculties that reside therein is not very high. Between kindergarten and a college degree more people are turned off to thinking creatively than are inspired. No one is better off for just having spent four years in college. The argument that a kid with some parental backing and a college degree behind him may jump ship when the going is rough is a good argument. Another argument could be made that the cook who knows he can get an easier job elsewhere is also the one who will be less hidebound in his outlook and the one who feels he can take risks. That in itself is a double-edged sword. At some point it may help his creativity, but it may make chef's less eager to hire him in the beginning. Most employers are looking to hire someone who need that job and will do what he's told to keep it. Whatever we may decide here, the world is changing and it will change without our permission. That other artists are all formally educated is not true in my opinion. At an early point in jazz, few musicians could read music. Throughout history, plenty of painters learned by working with a master. How many of the abstract expressionists were formally trained. I believe DiKooning was a sign painter in Holland.

Without checking out the link, I just assumed the French Laundromat was a reference to a do it your self take off on dinner at the French Laundry. I think six or eight courses is a lot of work for one person cooking for two. It would be easy if you had access to good precooked foods or no cook foods. I can't imagine it without many of the courses being served at room temperature or cold, so that they can be cooked ahead of time. Simple salads such as marinated mushrooms or mushrooms cooked a la greque will keep for a few days so you can knock them off during the week if necessary and have them ready on the weekend. A hot soup can be made ahead and reheated without too much attention.

Loiseau has come in for some criticism here I believe, but I loved the meal we had there quite a few years ago. It was the middle of the winter and we came north through a driving snowstorm from the Languedoc through the Massive Central. At one point in the trip we were on the Autoroute driving single file on the one lane that was partially clear from the cars and trucks. My windshield wipers froze and my windshield glazed over. I had to lean out the open window to get any kind of a look. You can imagine how little progress we made and how frustrated I was. By the time we reached Saulieu a day or two later I was still sorry we had made the drive, but after dinner I was a new person with a new outlook. I don't remember Saulieu as a lovely town and it may have been because Loiseau's hotel and restaurant are on a corner that has one or two gas stations and a fairly large road. There is a wonderful church with excellent captals on the columns. Romanesque, or maybe very early gothic. No I'm sure they are too early to be gothic. I trust you saw them.

Steve P., I understand you didn't say the French should stop doing what they do well. I'm just saying that sometimes when I travel it's nice to be someplace different even if they are wrong or making mistakes and neither of us siad they are either. From my point of view, may it's the French who live there full time that should be complaining about the lack of casual upscale restaurants, but I suppose they won't because as others point out, they seem to enjoy downscale casual places and even downscale formal dumps. I can recall a good number of seedy rooms with mediocre food and ill fitting formal clothes on less than regal specimens of waiters. So they have the category in between casual and formal, they just have it backwards by our standard. I think the French have a very different esthetic about dining and will not be like us for a while at least, but in some ways I see change. Although the food is very different, l'Astrance and Blue Hill are not unsimilar. Do either of these seem on target for your point? It appears Robert has copied and reposted an earlier message of his that he feels is topical to this thread.

Clearly the restaurant can be inconsistent and that alone should keep it from rising above one star, until they can overcome that. The line cooks are doing the actual cooking. The sous chef is really an over chef in terms of the rest of the kitchen. The line chefs are cooking to his orders. The sous chef may be plating or cooking, but generally he is overseeing. The sous chef is under (sous) the chef or executive chef. Chef, or executive chef is very much a management job. To a certain extend that of sous chef is as well. If all the line cooks are great, the chef gets credit. If the line chefs screw up, or if they're not there, it's the chef who is to blame in the same way as the general is to blame if the soldiers don't do well in battle. The chef is the manager and the strategist. If you can't hire and train good help, you're not going to be a great chef no matter how well you can cook. It's my contention that the better the chef, the less reason there is for him to be in the kitchen. Leslie Brenner's book on Daniel in NYC, discussed in a Q&A on the site, and William Echikson's Burgundy Stars both about a year in the life of a restaurant are good sources for those with some interest in behind the scenes of a restaurant. Burgundy Stars is about Bernard Loiseau in Saulieu. It's more concise and less focused on the daily routine of the kitchen as well as about France and may be the more interesting in this context, but Ms. Brenner's book will give you more of the sense of being in the kitchen.

Latal yay doesn't do it for you?

I have the same feeling and I'm disappointed--not that I'm beholden to antiquated customs, but that the French aren't. Takes the fun out of traveling there.

The web site says the restaurant will be opening soon ("prochainement" en francais). Apparently it is to be called "L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon."

Yes I think that's true. Or even if that class did get split the upper section were still perfectly at home in the Brasserie and did not feel the need to demand an extra tier between brasserie and formal restaurant. Let me say that one of the things I enjoy when I get to France, is that I am in France. I'm not so fond of the idea that they learn from us even when we've got a good idea. I think Tony touches on an important issue that may be telling about societies with a more organised class structure. The peasants know who they are and thus it is perfectly acceptable for the aristocracy to sit down next to them at some shabby bar or bistro. Here in the US as we rise a notch in income, we need a restaurant fancy enough to keep out those who can't afford our lifestyle. The food is less important and I feel that remains true even today in spite of all the interest we seen to have in cooking.

You're new to these parts. There are those among us, I'm not one of them, who believe in absolute hierarchies.

That sounds like something a rich uncle would keep on the side. I can hear the mutterings in the kitchen about someone's brother-in-law's "fancy aunt" as if the kids would not understand. I wonder how old one would have to be to understand that one didn't take a "fancy lady" to Schraffts.

I think it's a style that's referred to as continental and often seen as sleazy to Americans, or at least to some.

The French are a very formal people and there's a tradition of dining on at least three courses in a traditional restaurant. There's also the fact that in most better restaurants, the table is yours for the night and unilke here in the states where the faster you eat and leave the sooner they can serve another meal at your table. I think Cabby recognizes this and is sensitive to it. To a great extent she is oversensitive to it, but how much nicer it is for a American in France to be over sensitive than clueless in regard to local traditions and manners. I share some of Cabby's concern. Often when in France and looking for a light lunch, my wife will see a menu posted and suggest we eat there and just order main courses. Invariably I will tell her it's not the sort of restaurant where I would do that and we will continue to look for a cafe or brasserie where I feel it's permissable to order one course. I think Cabby's being too concerned because I feel that not having dessert is more acceptable than skipping a first course and because I think things are changing in regard to formality in restaurants. Another factor is that Cabrales is talking about the most formal end of French dining and oddly enough that's where a strange dichotomy exists. The chefs are artists whose work is not to be sullied with requests for sauce on the side, but the restaurants are dedicated to pleasing the diners' whims. I think you can order as much or as little as you like as long as you show respect for what you order.

Lesley, You're too late to start a trend. The all dessert restaurant is no longer an oddity. Espai Scure, in Barcelona, has the most publicity and may be thought of as the trend setter, but it probably isn't the first. Years ago I recall seeing an all dessert menu at Jardin de l'Opera in Toulouse. Jardin was a two star restaurant almost adjacent to the main theater/concert/opera house in the city. They offered what I believe was a five course dessert menu for after theater. For me that would be far preferable to sitting through the performance with a full stomach. A light snack before arriving at the theater is suggested (by me) as a preventive measure to keep your stomach from growling through the performance. Cabby, I don't know what to say about your proposal. In fact very many people skip dessert and few people have cheese in the US even if it's available. I am guilty myself, at times. When thinking of an analogy I realized I compare things that are incomplete to having a nice meal without dessert. I suppose I could say that having a fine meal without dessert is like having a fine meal without wine. Of course rules are meant to be broken and one can enjoy musical passages out of context, but the thought that the fine meal is incomplete will remain in my mind. Steve, Loufoud mentioned Aoki in her Epiphany Eve post. where she talks about a galette des rois "made with the almond paste and matcha green tea and sweetened red bean - matcha is the powdered Japanese green tea ceremony tea." She also recommended their black sesame macarons. This is my idea of a field trip, although I have to admit the one time we tried tasting every kouign aman in Douarnenez we overdosed on butter before we got halfway through. I can't hardly disagree with anything you say about chocolate, if only because I am still at the point where I could take lessons from you. I can only agree with you about the appreciation for dark bitter chocolate. I think I managed to recalibrate my palate with the aid of a pound or so of Bernachon's palets d'or brought home from Lyon. At least one quarter the way through the box, with a limit of one or two at a time, the satisfaction was more intelectual than sensual. At some point the bon bons began to taste like candy. It's far easier to go back to Lindt milk chocolate which has an immediate appeal much like many cheap sweet fat products. This is not to denigrate Lindt bars which are excellent in their class. Something's been on my mind since I was in Lyon however. After dinner at Le Bec's les Loges, we were given a box of chocolates. Actually Esilda was given the chocolates, I was given the bill. These chocolates were similar to Bernachon's in that there was a coating and a filling I take to be ganache. Bernachon's were palet shaped and these were smaller cubes. Le Bec's chocolates had a very thin shell. Berachone's palets had quite a thick wall enclosing the filling. They seemed more about being a chocolate than about being a bon bon. I assume it was intentional, but it went against what I expected. Both chocolates were exceptional.

The Guide Michelin recently added a page devoted to a list of "New Concept" restaurants to it's Paris pages. I'm not sure they can all be categorized easily but they all seem to break the traditional mold. In some cases, by reputation alone, I might attempt to dismiss them as being trendy, but some of them have received good reviews for the food. I'm sorry to see Gault Millau go, if it's gone. The annual guide is usually out well before Michelin's Guide Rouge, so we should know soon if there's to be a 2003 GaultMillau guide. It would seem as if the work for it should have been done while the almost monthly magazine was being produced, but they really don't have to cover everything in France well, to produce ten issues of the magazine. I think it's been a less influential guide since Gault and Millau have gone, but both the magazine and guide woould be missed.

The new Robuchon restaurant is supposed to be all counter seating, but I suspect it will be reasonably upscale.

I'm pretty sure it was after ten and maybe later. Maybe even closer to noon as I recall looking for a place to finish lunch considering the oysters a first course. Les Halles de Lyon is a retail market. I'm pretty sure the restaurants are open for lunch. We preferred just having a few oysters. None of the restaurants struck me as particularly noteworthy for the cooking and the raw bar was more appealing than a table for lunch.

Les Grandes Marches, 6, place Bastille, is just that. Christian Constant is the consulting chef and Pritzker Architecture Prize Laureate Christian de Portzamparc and his wife, Elizabeth, were the designers. Quite upscale, but casual with a mostly seafood menu, or at least that's what we all had. As I recall the food, was contemporary but not very fancy and the service was very French but very informal. We didn't pick it for the food. We needed an almost last minute table for a casual Sunday lunch with Parisians for whom style might be more important than the food, but we were pleasantly surprised by the food, a year and a half ago. Although I'd rather credit the Flo group with saving a slew of classic brasseries, most people focus on the fact that these brasseries are not what they were. Here we have a new style brasserie that is what it is without strict reference to tradition.

There were several vendors of oysters at the Lyon Market. We had oysters late one morning last April at the Lyon market. We picked the most attractive oyster bar at which to pull up stools. In fact my notes say, it was Roisseau. I suspect it is the same place. One of us has the wrong spelling. If I've noted it incorrectly, I'll blame it on too much Muscadet. La Mere Richard also has a stall at that market. You can find their St. Marcellin at most of the restaurants in Lyon. Until a few days ago I was still enjoying breakfast with one of the preserves we bought at the market. I'm struck by the thought this is the finest French market. We've seen some lovely markets in France, but I can't say we've ever been to one that's bigger or better in France, but it's possible that Barcelona has at least two markets that are better than the one in Lyon. Barcelona however, has about three times as many inhabitants to be fed.

Thank you for that little gift. It was a small gem of a post. It made Paris feel close by for a moment.

Complaining about a dish or throwing the complainer out? In either case, I suppose style counts heavily.

when you said that was tracey impressed. did she catch anything?

That hard to digest?