Bux

You've gotten on the wrong side of a couple of cooks in your day, I gather.

One thing I have to add is that after re-reading that "Help in Donostia" thread, I realize how much divergency there is in people's opinions of their meals. I'm still not sure whether this is a reflection of the subjectivity of the various diners' tastes or a matter of inconsistency. I'd have thought the first, but I see reason to suspect the second. Perhaps this is to be expected in an area where creativity becomes a competitive sport. I'm also not sure if this should add to the excitement of my trip next month, or make me apprehensive.

Sounds as if you made up for the 20 years' absence. I share much of your outlook. I find it hard to reconcile "this was a stunning meal" with "I wouldn’t really recommend this as somewhere to come to unless, like me, you just happened to be passing" though I suppose I am as guilty as the next person (or is it "foodie") when it comes to looking for the next new chef. On the other hand, I was thrilled to have the opportunity to eat in Andre Dauguin's restaurant in Auch in spite of the knowledge that he had lost a star, or was it two, and that he had announced his retirement at the end of the year. The dining room had clearly lost it's luster and I very much suspect the service was not up to what it had once been, but Monsieur Daguin was a formidable presence and the foie gras as well as the rest of his dishes were still impressive. To have eaten his magret de canard was a privilege and a connection with the cuisine, of cuisine I might have missed. For what it's worth, we planned two days in Auch and intended to eat lightly at Daguin's bistro the second night, but we were so overcome by the food that we returned to the main dining room for a second helping of foie gras and goose fat infused cooking. From there we went on to Michel Guérard for a night of more foie gras. I left Eugenie-les-Bains with an new understanding of the need to pace myself when planning multiple meals of rich food.

Well actually the owners were there, but we really don't know all the facts. I'm surprised at the vehemance and the criticism of this woman's ability to rear a child all based on a single incident. I've seen the photo of the store front on the web, and it would be hard for this woman not to have realized she was in a vegetarian restaurant, though I can't say everyone always understands how vegetarians think. In fact I've found many vegetarians are not put off by eating in places that cater to omivores as long as they don't have to eat meat. It's quite possible she entered not realizing her tiny jar of chicken would be as offensive as it was. As to what happened, there are two sides to every story and just because the press got it wrong, doesn't mean the opposite is right. We were conscientious parents. We did a fair amount of reading. We spent a lot of time in the pediatrician's office after every visit. We were reasonably confident we were doing the right thing pretty much all of the time. Over the years as a toddler, child, teenager and young adult, our daughter had a lot of friends and aquaintances whose parents had philosophies that were quite a bit different than ours, sometimes drastically different, and you know what, an awful lot of those kids grew up alright too. I would however like to know how the three year old who bounced off the walls in that playgroup turned out. I wonder if he still starts the day off with a cup of coffee.

I glossed over that the first time. It's not that far from the Louvre, but it's much closer to the Beaubourg, if I recall.

A few comments. The Greenmarket in Union Square is not as full of vendors on Monday, but it may still be worth a try. Since Callipygos is near Ottomanelli, that's probably her best bet. Citarella took over the Balducci store on Sixth Avenue and Ninth Street, so that's close by and the Jefferson Market is just north on sixth Avenue and may be another choice. I'd be surprised if she couldn't get a few chops or a loin tomorrow and the three places are really close enough to comparison shop if she has time.

I've heard good things about La Ferme des Grieves more recently than 1996. In addition to being inexpensive, it's a tribute to rustic cooking as might be seen in a farmhouse.

We had dinner at Sweet 'n' Tart last night. I'm sorry to report that it wasn't our best meal there. There was a wedding party upstairs and that may have drawn off the best chefs. It's also possible that by ordering dishes we didn't know, we ordered dishes we didn't like. For the first time, the almond covered butterflied shrimp were dry and overcooked. They're always been good before. That was a major disappointment. The stir fried turnip cakes, on the other hand, were exceptional and as good as I remembered. This is a stellar dish from the dim sum menu. Those multiple menus are confusing. I'm not a fan of the fruit drinks currently in vogue--they have their own menu here. I'd urge ordering from both the dim sum and the regular menu. A chicken, eggplant and tofu dish in paper casserole with a sour sauce, was just too sweet for our taste and a beef with vermicelli and black pepper casserole had little appeal to the others at the table, although I enjoyed it somewhat. The highlight of the meal was the crispy garlilc chicken. Ed Shonfeld had recommended this dish to me a long time ago, saying it was the best version in Chinatown. This was the first time we tried it and it blew away the other version we loved. the combination of incredibly crisp skin and very succulent meat was incredible. The garlic sauce was flavorful. Use it in moderation, at least at first. This is a must order dish, in my opinion.

I believe Ottomanelli carries frozen game year round. I don't know what might be in stock at any given time, but venison shouldn't be impossible to find in NY if you're willing to buy farm raised venison and particularly if you're willing to buy it frozen. If buying frozen meat, you should let it defrost overnight in the refrigerator and thus buy it on Monday and not on Tuesday for serving on Tuesday.

I was never addressing the issue of Jinmyo's "update" column. She's developed a style that works there. Besides, in context with the following line about the impending end of the world, the importance of what anyone thinks about Rick Bayless is put into perspective. Elsewhere, in this thead any implications of mine that some people have gone a little too far should not be seen as denying them the right to do so, nor even that they're going in the wrong direction. The direction is fine, it's just the starting and ending points I'd question. Or something like that. I feel it would be hypocritical of me to criticize an endorsement of a product I don't know first hand. Others may have other standards for their actions. Rick Bayless has tasted the sandwich in question. I'd be curious to hear an opinion from other people who have as well.

It's rare that places don't become dated at point or another. It's often a better fate that trying to pretend an aging chef is part of the next generation he doesn't quite get. In '96 we had a pretty impressive dinner. A lunch several years later was less so, but it was also the afternoon of the last day before the seasonal closing and there was a rather reduced menu. What I remember most from the first meal was some rather rustic dishes, cooked superbly well. A duck and foie gras pastry was memorable. I also loved that he had included s few fine slices of andouille in the amuses. They have several dining rooms. How many they use at one time, depends on the season and the traffic. We also stayed at the Maison Rose and I have to thank Guérard for having the thoughtfulness of providing a second, less luxurious and less expensive accomodation and allowing those who opted to economize on the room choose to eat in the main restaurant. The night we were there, it appeared that there were at least two large dining rooms in the main house being used. One was more elegant and the clientele was more formally dressed and speaking English to a larger degree than in the other room which had a more casual decor. I gathered that guests of the Relais Chateaux main hotel were served in one room and those not staying in the main house, in the other. That suited me fine as our room was predominantly French speaking and local, i.e. not staying in town, but living nearby. There was a large table with two well behaved children and nearer to us, a young couple out on what I assume was an important date.

Most braised beef or pot roasts are excellent as sandwiches, hot or cold. Mustard and horseradish are excellent. I'm not sure my preference wouldn't be without stilton or any cheese, but I have been known to spread a layer of the cold braising sauce on one slice of bread, if it's jellied, and mustard on the other.

I think not. Soemtimes it's possible to have grand dreams and still function in the real world supporting small gains.

If you like, I can move this to the NY forum where you are far more likely to get local sources for venison, or you could ask here about recipes and post in the NY forum about places to buy venison. To roast veal so it's like venison, is to deal with the properties of veal and not those of venison, so other than the flavorings, I would not follow that recipe. Veal would be at the opposite end of the meat spectrum to venison in my opinion, although of course venison will not be as fatty as beef or lamb which may be closer in taste. Of course there's a difference between wild game and farm raised game. Where are you in NYC? My guess is that on Monday moring there will be several butchers open around the city where you may find venison and likely as chops as well. How many will have fresh venison and how many will only have frozen cuts to offer is another story. In the Village, I'd try Ottomanelli's. The upper east side is likely to have several butchers offering venison. Whole Foods in Chelsea also seems a possibility. I'd call first and use the Yellow Pages.

Okay That he didn't design the sandwich has very little bearing on my opinion of why he's a sell-out. Well, it's much less damning than the idea that he endorsed a Burger King product, period. Come to think of it, if he thinks Burger King food is good, why should I trust him with what he'd make at his own joints? (I might have to go taste one of these sodium sandwiches now. Just to see.) Excuse my confusion regarding the design and development of the sandwich in question and excuse my overriding concern that, in spite the fact that I won't go near a Burger King, it's within the realm of possibility that the sandwich is actually edible and maybe even tasty. I gather than Bayless is not endorsing the whole line of BK products. So far it seems he's just endorsing this one product with the mention that it's a new direction for the company. It seems as if it's clear to me that he's implying he could never have endorsed what BK offered in the past and that includes the rest of the curent BK line of product. Maybe it's that I don't place Bayless in the firmament of chef gods and that BK is so much not a part of my life, that I'm so much less offended than others are.

For all I know Bayless is a sucker and speaking of sucking, analogies usually blow. In this case I wouldn't compare the BK chicken sandwich to a coat that's only 75% fur (that, I'd reserve for a good Mongolian stew). Perhaps I'd compare the BK chicken sandwich to a cloth coat being marketed by a company, 95% of whose line is in fur coats. Then it might not seem so bad for someone to say the cloth coat is a big improvement and a step in the right direction. It might also make some sense for an anti-fur advocate to say a good word about the cloth coat in the hope that enough sales and profits in the cloth line might tempt the company to abandon the fur business altogether. Did Wolfgang Puck actually develop the recipes for the canned soups that bear his name? Could anyone tell me if the ingredients stated on the can are the same kind of ingredients you'd expect him to be using at his restaurant. Where in the heirarchy of great chefs in America would anyone put Rick Bayless before this endoresment? Charlie Trotter, Thomas Keller, Emeril Lagasse, Rocco Di Spirito (before Rocco's), Rocco De Spirito (after Rocco's), Rick Bayless (before BK), Rick Bayless (after BK), Wolgang Puck. Line 'em up. Size places.

I'd only have to know that he believes what he says about the sandwich. I've had chefs recommend food they didn't cook or develop. As for his affiliations, it seemed one of the points he made to the press was that he felt it was a step in the right direction. I don't see how he will inspire the fast food industry to espouse some of his values if he turns his back on them when they espouse one of his values just a little bit. I may change my mind when I taste the samdwich. Then again I may never taste the sandwich owing to me prejudices about BK, but if BK can't get me in to taste what they're doing, there's no reason for them to even try and improve. It's a viscious circle. What I read in your message is that BK must disappear from the face of the earth, because they're BK and you will not be a party to any attempt on their part to improve. They're three time losers and deserve no chance.

I'm still waiting to see what exactly it is that Bayless will be saying beyond the fact that this is a step in the right direction for BK. I don't have trouble with that, so far. In the meantime, while I have no trouble following the reasoning on both sides of this discussion, I have a problem with sanctimony whenever I see it and I see it here in spades. If Bayless is to be seen as a leader in a movement, shouldn't he be the first to recognize and encourage any step, however small, in that direction even if from a major whore in the field? Let's also not lose sight of the fact that Bayless is not Thomas Keller, Daniel Boulud or Charlie Trotter. Fast food is not going to go away and what's served at BK and McDo is going to affect what much of the population gets to eat. As I said, I'm still waiting to see what exactly it is that Bayless will be saying. At this point, I'd eat at his restaurants if the food remains the same, but I wouldn't let him sleep with my sister because his character is suspect. (Can I say that on the Internet?)

Mrs. B and I will be in Paris from the 5th to the 8th of October. Actually we arrive on the 4th and leave early the 9th. Would any members in Paris during that time be interested in getting together? Sorry for the short notice, but our own plans have been somewhat vague. At the moment, the ideal time for us to join anyone at a bistro for an informal eGullet get together would be Wednesday night, October 8. Sunday, October 5 or even Saturday October 4, might be a possibility as well. Monday and Tuesday are definitely committed. Afternoons are a possibility and certainly a coffee or a beer is as good as meeting over a dinner table. We're staying in the sixth arrondissement close to the Fifth near the Jardin du Luxembourg, but we're comfortable getting anywhere in Paris. We expect to have Internet access in Paris, to keep in contact with people.

I'll agree that even the best restaurants can suck, at least in some aspect on any given night and that sometimes all it takes is one detail to ruin a diner's entire dining experience and color the rest of the meal. I like to cite my experience at Roellinger because the restaurant redeemed itself and it shows how adaptive and generous a person I am. The truth is that there are restaurants that never got a second chance to prove themselves to me and that I carry a negative image of some very highly respected restaurants because they're just too inconvenient to revisit or they're in a location that has so much competition for my business. Life can be unfair. I think most people however, will argue vehemently that a Michelin 3 star, or NY Times 4 star, rating should mean absolute consistency. In theory I'd join that argument, but it's unrealistic. Restaurants are dynamic. Staff come and go. Enthusiasm wanes and revives. Michelin notes that you will always eat extremely well and sometimes superbly at a three star restaurant. For some diners, extremely well is so high an expectation that superbly is irrelevant, but Michelin understands that not every dish, or every night is equal to every other. Still, consistency should be a hall mark of a fine restaurant. Jonathan quotes Robert's "the immovable aspects of restaurants -- the overall taste level from the decor to the graphic design; the attitude and commitment of the dining room staff; and how one is generally treated" and notes himself that "as an indicator of how well a restaurant was really doing. And in the case of Restaurante Martin Berasategui, he [Robert] pointed to the design, the welcome as guests arrived, and the table settings as evidence." If I might focus on the design, it's probably one thing that is consistent in most restaurants. They may grow shabby or dowdy over time, but it's unlikely the design is swell one night and then unacceptable another. There's more likely a difference in the outlook of the diner, although I'll admit that the dining room seemed rather "gray" when we passed through it. We ate on a terrace with a great view of greenery that seemed to deny the suburban character of the neighborhood as we drove up to Berasategui. To what extent the decor or the restaurant contributed to the disappointment of the meal and to what extent the service or rest of the meal led to the dissatisfaction of the design can't be clear. These things snowball. If a diner is engaged with his dinner, he's less likely to pay as much attention to the background. If the food is not engrossing, or if he's bored waiting for the next course, it becomes very easy to notice flaws that might otherwise be unnoticed.

I'm just surprised more people aren't equally upset at the fact the world is doomed. It will be interesting to hear exactly what Bayless has to say about the sandwich, assuming the world will last long enough for me to get that chance.

I have not met a Latin American cuisine I didn't like. There may perhaps be a few dishes I haven't learned to like, but there are enough threads of similarity to assure me I will find many things I like in the cuisines I haven't yet encountered.

If Berasategui is having problems, it wouldn't be the first restaurant to succumb to the pressures of becoming a three star or to its chef having many interests in the area. I will also maintain that there's far more subjectivity to the appreciation of food than most people are willing to admit. I have known reasonable and sophisticated diners to disagree about a meal they had together. In any event, Martin has almost a month to get his act together before we're there. There are things a restaurant can do that will prevent me from enjoying my meal and then there are times when my opinion is completely changed again by the time I finish the meal. The longest period of time I ever spent with nothing to do but read the menu was at Roellinger in Cancale. By the time they came to take our order, I was convinced I was on French candid camera or the butt of someone's joke, but the meal was so good and the service so attentive from there on, that I've argued they deserved another star.

Robert, thanks for that. It's an excellent read and far more than just a useful guide for those wanting advice on where to eat, what to eat or even how to order in these places, although it should be food for thought for people who want those suggestions. Sometimes a meal is more than the sum of it's parts and sometimes it's less. I think you make that clear and while I'm decidedly focused on what comes out of the kitchen (as I think you and Susan are too) there are intangibles that can seriously affect even how we appreciate the food. For me, the way you handle that is a highlght of the article which should make for intersting reading even for those who do not have Donostia in their plans at the moment. Victor suggested you might very well have visited Martin on a bad day. I very much sense an appreciation on your part that these are reflections on a meal and not an attempt to classify, rank or totally explain the individual restaurants, but to add to the store of understanding we each may have about the area and its top restaurants. The article comes off as a report from sophisticated diners who have just discovered the area. What if does for me, whose dining card for a short week next month in the area is already pretty fixed, is not make me question so much if I've made the right choices, but to make me even more excited to be there and try most of the same places. I will of course, be re-reading your article several times gleaming advice. I've mentioned that my now long ago visit to Arzak is what's fired my interest in dining in Spain. That meal was a side trip to an itinerary in the outhwest of France that became the unexpected highlight of the trip. Who knew at the time that three stars was harder to get in Spain than in France. I had assumed the opposite. A later meal at Berasategui reinforced our interest in Donostia as a destination. It was marred only by the lack of half bottles on the wine list and when deciding between a glass of red for each of us and a bottle, our eyes were bigger than our stomachs, livers and brains. Martin himself was not there that day, or not there when we finished lunch. We had hoped to meet him as he had been such a gracious host to our daughter before. The lunch however was thrillling. For us it was one of those where we were on the edge of our seat in anticipation of each course.

In the original article, Lubow says Marc Veyrat told him "that the most creative cooks in Europe were no longer French; they were Spanish." Joël Robuchon is quoted as saying "[Adria] is the best cook on the planet," although he later qualified that in terms of technique. Gagnaire is not quoted, but Lubow makes a point of eating at Pierre Gagnaire's restaurant in Paris (with whit Stillman, writer-director of the film Barcelona) on his way to Spain. Lubow says that Gagnaire "is the most out-there Michelin three star chef in France." Perhaps that sets him up as a, if not the, logical choice of defender of the faith. I thought I also recalled a defense from Ducasse somewhere and thought it was referrenced on eGullet, but I can't find the reference. Robert Brown's very interesting article on Donastia is suggested reading for anyone following this thread. It provides a personal look at probably the top five restaurants in the area and further insight to what he's posted here in praise of Spain as a dining Mecca. "For two tough customers, my wife and me, who had come to believe that truly unforgettable gastronomic forays were behind us, San Sebastian was a minor miracle, but a miracle nonetheless. We had more fine meals (only one was a disappointment) strung together than at any time in nearly 15 years." It's all the more convincing because he doesn't hide the faults he found. If anyone believes he now has a bias towards dining in Spain, this article at least explains how that came about.