JosephB

Bottombracket, you took that question right out of my mouth. Hey, welcome to eGullet!

Nice work Kara!

I loved my Per Se experience, especially because of the special company we had, but it occurred to me yesterday that for what it cost for Donna and me to eat at Per Se, we could have had 20 meals x 2 at Franny's. I think that if we dined weekly for 20 weeks at Franny's that we would have a special relationship with the place, and that would represent a lot of added value for me.

This place is charging the same prices on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn that Otto is charging on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. It makes Otto look cheap. The challenge would be finding a more expensive pizzeria, especially when factoring in location. I'm not sure even Serafina is more expensive for similarly constituted pies (although they go to a higher maximum on account of the caviar pizza), and La Pizza Fresca (where the key ingredients are imported) also seems to be in this range. Those places -- Serafina, La Pizza Fresca, and Otto -- also sound much more like the appropriate points of comparison for a Neapolitan pizza fancier (the Kinsey/Sconzo/Bavuso axis strikes me as heavily predisposed to favor whatever seems most accurately Neapolitan). While I think all those places are capable of serving a delicious product, the style and cost issues combine to establish a rather distinct genre. To me, in any comparative analysis of a particular product -- pizza, burgers, frankfurters, bread, whatever -- the fundamental issues involve defining the styles and the criteria for excellence within those styles. This helps to differentiate between expressions of stylistic preference (liking ribeye better than porterhouse and therfore ranking all great ribeyes ahead of all great porterhouses) and qualitative analysis of stylistically similar products (liking one porterhouse better than another because it better fulfills the criteria for porterhouse excellence). The rest is just a question of harvesting experiences -- in my experience, once you break things down to a certain level of granularity, two experienced and level-headed tasters are not likely to disagree on the specifics of which samples met which criteria. Of course it's possible to define categories so narrowly that all comparison becomes impossible, or so broadly that all comparison becomes meaningless. The trick is striking the right balance. Sorry for rambling. Can you run that by me again?

Actually, we spent about $50 each with drinks, tax, and tip -- definately not cheap. And at the end of the meal we felt that we could eat more. I suppose that if you limit yourself to a $13 pizza and a $7 pint of beer, you can get out for $50 a couple for outstanding food. From what I could tell, the place was full of young urban professionals by the time we left. I don't think Franny's prices will scare them off. On the other hand, for $13 at Grimaldi's you get a pizza enough to feed 2-3 people (well, ordinary people).

Beautiful Sam . . . just beautiful. Yes, we were thrilled by Franny's. More later . . . .

Skinsey, bergerka, and I were at Franny's tonight. We're going to start a separate thread for Franny's. For now let me just say that Franny's is perfect in every way. Do not wait for Asimov to discover Franny's - you'll be too late.

Like something I'd be very skeptical of. I love mushrooms, but I've never thought much of ferns. Uh, ramps are like wild leeks.

I see, we got a real bargain -- what a relief.

I just might have to go to Franny's tonight! Adam Heimlich of The New York Press reviewed Franny's this week. Heimlich thinks that the crust at Franny's may even surpass the crust at Grimaldi's. Here's how he describes the crust: "The first taste sensation is a floury crispiness, then comes chewy -- and the planet of pedestrian pizza recedes to a tiny point in the galactic distance." As for toppings, how does house-smoked pancetta from Niman Ranch pork, with ramps and fontina sound to you?!

I think you're right John. Do you think we received a special price because we announced that we were forum hosts on eGullet?

That's bizarre. We had the 2x2, and the additional charge was only $20.00.

While I've enjoyed grilled squid, the fried squid I've eaten seaside in Sicily ranks among my truly favorite things to eat -- sweet, succulent calamari, fresh out of the sea, floured and fried, sprinkled with sea salt and a squeeze of lemon -- perfect.

Hey doc, I love the new avatar. You're one handsome dude.

Actually, the woman who sharpens knives in Chelsea Market is there on Saturdays. She has a stand in front of Bowery Kitchen Supplies.

Sounds like great fun. We'll be there!

Calimero, I'm glad to hear that you think Setaro pasta is a top product. As Sam said, the Italian grocery store in the Chelsea Market in NYC has an impressive selection of Setaro pasta. The prices are $3.99 to $4.99 per kilo, which is quite a bit more than you are paying, but well worth it. It is now the only brand I buy. Ci sentiamo.

Usually we break "long" pasta when is a leftover: for example, pasta e fagioli (beans) is always cooked with short and long broken pasta (of course adding different pastas according to differnt cooking time). Another example is the classic roman recipe bucatini al forno con alici e porcini (baked bucatini with anchovies and porcini mushrooms): break the bucatini in three parts, boil them very very al dente, add the prepared sauce (made with garlic, anchovies and mushrooms), cover with breadcrumbs and bake them Calimero, when you say "left over" do you mean that you're using an assortment of uncooked pasta? I often have an assortment of less-than-full packged pastas, none of which by itself is sufficient for a meal. As long as the cooking time for each is similar, I mix them together. The other day I even saw a package of mixed pasta from Naples at the Chelsea Market in NYC. By the way, when you say "we" do you mean Italians? Are you from Italy?

Aside from what are essentially soup recipes, I would agree that the proper length for long pasta is around 12", and that breaking it in half makes twirling more difficult -- I don't think 6 inches provides enough slack to wrap around a fork without flopping off. On the other hand, I think the yard-long stuff that slkinsey has brought into my kitchen is the other extreme, and at times becomes unwieldy.

Per Se is a good value on any night, but the cost is even easier to justify on a special occasion. It just so happens that last Thursday was my one-year anniversary as a member of eGullet!

NY1 is reporting that Cremalita has entered into a settlement agreement with the City which requires that it no longer claim that its products are "low calorie". There's a new Cremilita in my neighborhood on West 72nd Street. Yesterday I walked by and noticed a sign in front of the shop which claimed that Cremilita is "low carb". Perfect timing.

I like to think of my experience at Per Se last week in terms of the whole, rather than the sum of the parts. I have had several haute dining experiences, but do not feel qualified to critique or compare like a reviewer. On the other hand, I can certainly say what I like and dislike, and discern value to me. When I reflect back on last Thursday evening, I remember 5+ hours of eating and drinking with dear friends in a spacious and sumptuous room. I remember that the taste of some dishes was delicious (foie gras "peach melba"), but too fleeting, and that the taste of other dishes was just interesting (pickled egg). I'll never forget the breads and butters. I also remember moments when the wine (Chardonnay) and food (lobster, saffron, vanilla) spoke to each so clearly that I smiled. I remember a pineapple sorbet, and then more desserts, and then too many more desserts. I never met the petite fours. Our captain, Peter, graced our table with relaxed professionalism, mixed with erudition, charm, and wit. Make sure you ask for him when reserving. The balance of the wait staff was excellent, anticipating all our needs. The wait staff's ability to sense a question or curiosity was uncanny, making us wonder whether a microphone had been hidden in the center piece on our table. Silver and stemware were changed imperceptibly -- "where did that fish knife come from"? Our evening, which has been well documented above by docsonz, ended with an impressive tour of the kitchen -- Wow! We were warmly greeted in the kitchen by Chef Benno, who seemed genuinely pleased that we stopped in to visit. He also seemed very proud of his extraordinary kitchen. For me, dinner at Per Se was an event. The experience easily outweighed the cost.

Actually, there are several pasta dishes in Italy which instruct to break spaghetti into thirds. These dishes are typically with beans and broth. One example of such a dish is Millecosedde from Calabria. Bugialli gives a recipe for this dish on page 42 of his out-of-print book, Bugialli on Pasta.

Peter, our superb captain, told us that Per Se endeavors to serve wines that can be purchased in retail stores. In that way, guests can buy more of the stuff they enjoyed in the restaurant. In fact, he told us that some of the wines that we were drinking were available in the wine shop connected to the Whole Foods in the TWC.

We sat near the window when we dined at Per Se last week. From where were seated we looked out onto the construction in the Circle, and the park and buildings beyond. At least until construction of the Circle is completed, the better views are probably from the elevated, interior part of the dining room. In that case, the tables on the upper level may be prefereable to the tables on the lower level.