beans

BTW, that is one of the best lines I've read lately. Does that merely apply to children? No! I see this all of the time and wondered if I was the only one that thought the same too. I agree with much of fifi's perspective as well. While I do not work in fine dining, I find this as an interesting topic as I have attended to tables with unruly children that have disturbed many other dining patrons and have walked the tight rope dance of appeasing both groups to the satisfaction of this occasional problem. I've seen the gamut of the tired, crabby child to the well rested and energetic one that enjoys throwing everthing they touch, in every possible direction -- with oblivious parents smiling the whole way with questions of "Where is something for my child because he/she is hungry and cannot wait for the adult entrees to be finished and served to the rest of us!" I find it astonishing that parents are taking their young children to restaurants such as Trotter's, FL, Daniel, etc. The child cannot appreciate such an experience and what fun is it with a plate of chicken tenders and a ramekin of honey dipping sauce served alongside with grand degustation menu beginning with Poached Poussin with Golden & Striped Beets, Terrine of Confit Leg & Scallions? What are the children's menu offerings anyway? (as I do not have first hand experience -- so far, I only have cats and not children! ) edit: grammar

Welcome to eG alicembk! Not sure how this will affect your decision to attend this school as you will be moving. However in the spirit of offering opinions/thoughts regarding the Bartending School -- pros, cons and issues of job placement "guarantees" Check references! See if the school will provide a list of names of recent attendees that completed their course of study and were successfully placed into a paying, bartending position. Visit them and if they are willing to chat, ask away any question -- especially ones regarding promises of guaranteed future employment. Regarding Memphis -- good luck. I don't know the restaurant/bar/club scene there well enough to be of any assistance. Interesting state though, as it is one of the few that permits 18 year olds to serve, sell and pour alcohol. Please do. Keep the positive attitude and enthusiasm. Very attractive to employers. BB Code

Ditto here. Precisely, however five hours behind. Except some of those goodie presents have already been opened.... Golly, I feel like I'm 5 years old again, but with yummy beverages. Happy Christmas jackal10.

My neighbour, another bartender friend of mine, throws an annual Festivus party. He's been house sitting and no party this year.

Woo hooooo! That is some great stuff. I stink at tasting notes, but I'll give it a try. Last night I tried Corsendonk Christmas Ale. This was too sweet for me to have more than one. Lightly spicey, honey like almost caramel warmth, a strong alcohol presence, a bit fruity and hoppy. Very enjoyable.

IMHO, no. An excellent cocktail book and some web resources is a better investment of time and much less money for all of the cocktail recipes that schooling will give you for about $600-$1000. Practice your pouring with the assistance of jiggers or an Exacto Pour (if that should be something you determine to be a worthwhile investment or endeavour). Want to learn how to cut fruit? Visit this: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26775 Wonder about glassware? Visit this: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26787 Wonder about drinks to know: Visit this: http://www.miss-charming.com/recipes/know.htm Cheryl's website is well worth careful review, as is DrinkBoy's and Webtender. These are not the sole web resources. I listed the many I found to be of assistance at the end of this. That is for you to determine. I think that the answer above demonstrates if that one is resourceful enough one may be able to exceed what bartending schools attempt to provide. Are you looking for a quick fix approach? In my experience, there really isn't one. It is all dependent upon your own abilities and penchant for same. I think what has been illustrated above, it isn't some easy peasy thing to step into with little or no previous experience, especially having none in any food and beverage situation. As stated above, barbacks are few and far between these days. Why pay for an additional position on the payroll when the bartender is perfectly capable of accomplishing same? Barbacks are indeed special though. They are the extra eyes and ears for the bartender. They anticipate the bartender's needs (spot an amost empty bottle? The good barback grabs a new one from the liquor room before a bartender has to scream for one while in the middle of making a drink). Being a walking database of drink recipes will not help you with that barback "dance." But then again this is all dependent upon the bartending school that is being considered. There are a rare few that do a great job -- just not where I reside, and in all fairness this rare find should not be summarily dismissed. But it gets dissed and lumped in too from the general reputation that bartending "schools" have evoked, or perhaps earned in overall reputation. I do know of one that does a fantastic job, but it is in Oklahoma (I think). One Webtender forumite instructs at it and I am of the sincere impresssion he is one of the utmost integrity, personally and professionally. Question for you -- Why bartending? I mean why not serving? I've worked in restaurants that the bartender was the lowest earner on the tips scale, so I split my schedule to maintain both bartending and serving shifts. Good luck, and Happy Holidays. edit: the typo bug bites again seizing the sloppy proof-reading moment

Was it an aluminum pole? A marble rye? Kasha?

I'm not sure if I am on the defense with this, as several lifestyle choices have been firmly put into place that may not have any involvement with the portrayal of bartending as Busboy outlined. However, vices do temp with more frequency and with some intensity. It is all about personal choices. I chose previous positions in both law and customer service that involved working with all sorts of abilities, personalities and position. While pursuing retail management I've made the commitment and decision to being an honest, role model employee for sales associates, and other management as well, in utilising careful and precise cash handling and following standard operational procedures without fault. This is not unique to retail or food and beverage as many of these are fundamental issues that one faces in the course of most career choices, so the question becomes, do you wish to be regarded as a professional -- in the connotation of being an apparent hard working employee with integrity, accountability, honesty and flexibillity? (Professional bartender still will always = Dale DeGroff, and nothing less in accomplishment/notoriety). A few comments regarding the choice to become a bartender: I guess it really doesn't have to be a lifestyle choice. I was leaving retail management wherein I was employed by a womens' moderate, ready to wear apparel (weekends and many evenings -- just not as late as 3 a.m.+) and a short term contract with Eaton Corporation's law department, environmental section to fill in for a legal assisstant leaving on an extended maternity leave (ironically someone I knew from high school). I've already dealt with my share of "assholes" from the judicial system, the practice of law (civil/criminal/public sector) and theiving sorts trying to get something for nothing in retail (internally, externally and administratively). I felt I was more than halfway there, so why not make the money? I don't intend, by any means, to deconstruct in the spirit of a dispute/debate with Busboy, however there I felt it necessary to comment re the following as they are issues to concern oneself when making this decision to work in areas of two way/trick mirrors, strobe lights/lasers and smoke: Had to do that paralegalling (not a word, I know) or to open my store. Really no difference to any other person with a work schedule. I have yet to hear complaints about the sex, drugs, cash and vast quantities of alcohol... (perhaps not enough???!) Right. Seriously, though, pretty women are harrassed (as I'm sure pretty men are too ); drugs can be found if that were to be sought out from either the FOH staff, heart of the house staff, management or clientele. Thick skin and strong wills. Drugs never were a temptation to me, but I do see it being transacted often enough. Cash is hard to adjust to when one is accustomed to bi-montly salaried auto deposits. Cash in hand can burn holes in pockets and one rocking Saturday can knock the socks off of you. As far as vast quanitities of alcohol -- sure, but that depends on atmosphere, management philosophy and one's own ability personal limitations, determination and choices. I've worked with fellow bartenders that can drink like fish to recovering alcoholics that can barely withstand the smell. At Put in Bay we were expected to drink and "throw the party" for our guests while other places of employment that was forbidden and the end of shift drinks were the reason whey we rushed through checkouts. That is a matter of personal experience and ability. Actually, this is a piece of cake compared to the squirming I've felt before a partner/judge/mayor when submitting my work. This is where the multi-tasking magic comes into play. I've worked with seasoned bartenders that wore "blinders" and others that could see the bigger picture with little that bothered them (at least anything outwardly apparent during shift.... ) Hey! What is that strange orange ball in the sky!!! Busy summer shifts we'll get the barbacks to fill the largest lexans with ice, everyone chipped in a few bucks to purchase a couple cases of some average lager and will kick back with a beer or two on the back dock. We knew it was a bad night if the sun began to rise, which did send us scurrying home! Yes, it can be the life of a vampire, but it doesn't have to be. A few do go home immediately following cash out, moi inclusive -- from time to time. If someone is cursing at the barstaff, then there are problems, no matter the language! Reliability is key. However long term is always the goal with some employers. There are management/owner philosophies that do enjoy "cleaning house" and starting with a fresh staff. One management philosophy when I worked in retail for Disney, was to procure these long lasting loyalty relationships with the parkcastmembers, however that was the opposite with Disney Store castmembers. They sought out fresh new faces with bright, new enthusiasm that were screened during the interview process for a willingness to do more with less recognition. I was a dinosaur after three years, being only one of four of the store's original opening team. Bartending isn't very different. Sometimes managers/owners simply want to replace the staff with 21 year old, blond women; sometimes not. Ask each person coming in through the doors with resume in hand and a ready pen in their pocket to fill out an application, and yes, they all want to be bartenders. No one ever seems to want to be a server! Bartending isn't necessarily the stuff or being a "star." In fact the glamous side of the job lasts about five whole seconds when you realise how much fluid (bodily or distilled and bottled) you need to deal with, redistribute and haul around. (Think about it -- even frozen, harsh detergents, stinging fruit juices!) Barbacks are somewhat of a dying breed. A good one is worth their weight in gold as they will tend to each and every whim/need of the bartender. (Yes, even scratch that itch in the middle of your back you cannot reach!) It was a real bubble breaker when one of those newbies had to haul out and dispose of the gigantic trash barrels she incurred during her shift. She saw the light when she had to pick up the beast as it pee'd out the bottom corner of the bag, onto her white uniformed shirt, when she rather weakly tried to heave-ho it into the dumpster. She sat on the ground and cried. I gave her that moment, and when she looked up, our eyes met and I said, "Bet you are sorry now that you didn't empty the ice in the drink cups, remaining beverages and/or beer cans before you threw them into the can, eh?" She swore profusely; then we both laughed, I helped her up and we walked back to the bar to begin massive restocking. What bartending is -- physically demanding, can be mentally abusing and can boil down to merely glorified babysitting. (Just picture: everyone is silly tipsy and you, sober, are having to deal with why the drain isn't draining with the assistance of several sized straws to find that newbie poured fruit down the hatch and it smells quite fragrantly at this point with some rather aggressive fruit flies in full attack mode...) Aw, but such is the life for me. It entirely indulges my every whim. I want to travel, I get the time off and even know of others that can help me out, occasionally, with free airline passes or vacation home accommodations. I want more time to return to law school (should that be a revisited desire), I can do that without much interruption in my schedule too. I work when I want and when I need to refill the bank account. Also schedule-wise, I enjoy going to the market/running simple errands on Wednesdays when it is less crowded instead of the maddening crowds and masses trying to accomplish the same on Saturdays. I want to stop by in Ft. Lauderdale, South Beach, Key West and New Orleans during the winter months? I've got a buddy in the biz (most likely a former co-worker) that I look forward to visiting. New club in town? I get an invite for the grand opening. Any sports or performance I can find someone with tickets, often gratis. And good food. I LOVE our chef and sous. They make sure I have something yummy to eat. It has its perks. edit: sloppy proof-reading most likely brought on by the amount of heady almond paste I've sculpted into baked goods today....

Kitchen Toys Giving: (all to my lunchtime bistro owning father) Set of four tongs Mega package of kitchen/bar towels Orca Mit 1 square silicone hot pad/pot holder digital thermometer a couple Rubbermaid commercial food storage containers Got from Roomie: one kick ass Kitchenaid 24 count silicone mini-muffin mold with a metal "sled" that helps keep it stable (watched me swearing while brandishing that mini torch last Thanksgiving in a vain attempt to unmold mini cheesecakes cleanly) Homemade Food Goodies for the giving: Salmonberry Jam Tomato Jam Roasted Onion, Shallot and Garlic Marmalade Raspberry Vodka Infusion (picked the berries too) jars of a goat cheese "salad" wherein cubes are rolled in newly dried herbs (parsley, basil, thyme, rosemary, oregano), chili pepper flakes, garlic and pepercorns steeping away in some delicious olive oil Garlicy beef jerky (took longer than I thought to dry ) Cookies (flourentines yet to be determined, cranberry/pistachio biscotti, pine nut cookies, a peppermint thing from Jeff Smith's Christmas book) Mini Sour Cream Chocolate Chip coffeecakes Grand Marnier truffles Chocolate covered pretzels Chocolate cups to hold shots of Bailey's for Christmas coffee service Food Goodies for the pets 2 cases of canned cat food for the "yard" cats that have adopted my parents 2 catnip plants a few pieces of frozen shrimp and dead gold fish (pet shop gave me their floaties for free!!) for the fiddler crab they inherited from their renters when they recently moved away A new cat food place mat Home made doggy "bones" (cookies) for a friend's pooch Food-Like Crafty Cookie Dough and Espresso candles in various shapes, sizes and jars Honey flavoured lip balm I think I really out did it this year!

Ooooh Robert! Thank you. (I LOVE seeing you around here!!!!) Gary kinda looks like a wildman, and yes the class did sound like fun would be had by all. I wondered if there was something about it that made it clearly stand out as education/vocational training to bartending career success. I had queneau's, yours, George's, Dan's and Cheryl's (only to name a few)assistance along with an interest to learn more than three ways I can use my die cut beer bottle opener in order to open bottles the fastest. And of course Dale DeGroff and Robert Plotkin publications.

Gordon, you hit the nail on the head with the owner of the restaurant wherein I collect my pay! (all blonds too) They will work out for about three shifts until the bar manager will catch them making a Strawberry Daiquiri with oj and then they will be offered a hostess and/or beer barrel girl position. (seriously, this has happened, and more than once too) **** Yup, a mom-and-pop sort of place may be the way to go. But then that's the sort shot-n-beer kind of joint, and not much on the learning/applying much of the cocktailian skills one may be seeking to get out of it as a "stepping stone." And another short word on the reality and today's current economic condition -- it is discouraging. I do know of many in the biz not at the same earnings mark as in previous years. There are by far more hunting for a new gig than there are available positions. Even 10+ years of experience tenders are taking a few weeks in securing a worthwhile job that will support and sustain them financially (often working for 2 different bars as well). In the past years I've been with or no longer with my employer, the two year minimum similar experience was a deterrent to most applicants. Last season, the majority of applicants were all seasoned mixologists with a proven track record.

Any particular reason why you would recommend that class -- Cocktails in the Country? Two short days of "training" doesn't make one a bartender. emphasis mine. This seems like a week-end getaway, bed and breafast situation with some entertaining instruction that is sponsored by distillers. (Diageo being a biggie). You are limo-ed around, eat a four course dinner (breakfast the next day too) and have "luxury" accommodations.

That is sort of different. I'm TiPS and TAM (Alaska specific) certified. The State of Washington makes this sort of training required, as did Alaska. That is a good thing. FAQs Providers for Training Training for Intervention ProcedureS and Techniques in Alcohol Management -- It is all about identifying behavioural cues of intoxication, understanding BAC and the affects of the absorption of alcohol, intervention strategies preventing alcohol-related problems (drunk driving), reviewing specific state and/or municipal/burrough/county (if applicable) laws, and provide information about proper identification in an effort to prevent underaged drinking (not about washing your hands when handling ice ).

Oh yes bartending is very much a learning on the job position. However without previous restaurant experience, as with my example of that lovely young couple, they had *no idea* what it involved as they've never even waited on tables previous to landing this situation. Their hire was a huge failure to the bar owner -- upset and disgruntled employees picking up the slack, loss of business with upset customers and higher liquor cost (the highest I've ever seen it). It was a very expensive undertaking for that bar owner. Something else to consider: bartenders have a direct hand on profit and managers/owners are leary to hire some straight off the street unknown without a previous food and beverage position track record. Trustworthiness is a biggie. Heck even with excellent references that eagle eye watches you until management/owners have achieved some level of comfort and confidence with the good hire or shouldn't have hired cognitive dissonance. You are handling expensive inventory and *large* sums of cash. For the sake of probability, there must be a bar somewhere that is willing to hire one that has never previously worked in the food and beverage biz. However I would tend to think it would be the small, mom-and-pop sort. One family I worked for did do this, but it was for the day shifts that their seasoned bar staff refused to work (less business volume = less $$$ in the tip jar). The newbies eventually wised up and quit to move onto bigger and better situations. Their day staff schedule was a continuous revolving door of new names.

I saw the 1993, tonight, for sale for $134.95. Wasn't my usual wine shop however and was more of an upscale convenient store (actually its name is Convenient ) that has a fair wine selection. Sometimes they are on the high side, but I once found a 1997 Late Harvest Chardonnay, Eloquence, by Raymond Vineyard and Cellar for $12. It lacked a price tag, was not in their POS and the cashier and manager on duty took a wild stab at it.

First off, I'm a tad errant by not stating: Welcome to eG live2eat! Back to business. The server that gets promoted to being behind the bar really does maintain more skills than a green, inexperienced bartending school graduate. Servers possess: Knowledge and experience with set up, inventory (do we stock Louis XIII?) type of business the bar does, POS, regulars and menus. Plus, servers often ice their glassware, fill their own wash and garnish accordingly (their guests' cocktails from the service bar) and have experience with when business is booming and the bar is getting slammed with customers. And with the stamp of approval from management for a server to be promoted to bartending, they must have already demonstrated the required ability of successful multi-tasking and outstanding cash handling skills. Learning how to mix drinks is only one facet of bartending, as well as being a walking database of recipes does not make one a bartender. Newly hired bartenders go through a training period of about five days (including a few follows of opening/closing) so they become comfortable with the POS, house recipes, procedures, etc. regardless of their years of experience. Some may need less time, but this is so that all are on the same page and each and every employee receives the same, consistent training of the standard operational procedures. How else can measures of performance be applied? Without prior restaurant experience, even as a server, being hired into a bartending position would be quite difficult, if not impossible. For instance here is a cut and paste anecdote of mine from another forum in a place I worked two years ago where training was non-existant.... Case in point. This past summer two good looking, smart kids applied for the extra "slack" shifts at this place I worked. We had three full timers, which could handle a busy six day schedule, but the owner realized that occassionally one of us would like a day off. These two bs'd their way in and got on the schedule. Ohmygod! Relieving bartenders found a mess of excessive garbage, the walk-in empty, the beer bottle coolers very low on stock, and no ice in the ice wells. When these two were forced to stick around to prep the bar for the next shift, they were in angry screaming tears. Not to mention our liquor cost for that week for all of their mistake drinks. One of them actually asked me what was in a 7 & 7. They lied about having any experience and became the most vicious pit vipers when they were clearly in the weeds. (I stopped by for a sweatshirt I left the night before during one of their shifts and was inundated with a barrage of help me's with this and with that). Our customers paid the price too and I was subjected to a large number of complaints of never returning again because they were unable to receive decent service and drinks. Once these kids owned up to their bravado of well toned experience, or lack thereof, each of us had to spend our day off nursing them along on from everything of how to haul out garbage, why each and every bottle has it's very own place to where the light switch was. No thanks to repeating that anytime soon. The owner felt so bad for them she couldn't fire them. Bartenders do not like to work with a self proclaimed all knowing and all experienced bartender who hasn't even seen the ugly side of battle in the trenches. (The fun things like when the ice machine craps out; the soda gun shoots soda uncontrollably; your POS system crashes; there are 200 screaming customers whistling at you like they lost their dog and only you are the sole bartender.... you get the picture). Good luck. edit -- my mind is stuck on holiday baking and may be lacking focus.

Here is a snippet I found googling: Lead Information Package -- Some Commonly Asked Questions About Lead and Human Health from our friends to the north Now the question is what is the acidity of whisk(e)y? It most likely isn't as high as a wine, right? At any rate, same day use shouldn't be a problem. Do the 24 hour vinegar soak too.

Steven - Yes. I can't think of a single state that requires a license. Shhhhh! It may become a new source to generate revenue.... uggh!!!! The points that Cheryl makes on her Become a Bartender webpage link I provided above suffices rather nicely, so I've decided against posting a bunch of additional links of Webtender discussion rehashing the same thing needlessly.

1993 Dom Perignon Tasting Note from Wine Spectator's forums And here too As far as the 1985 Dom Perignon Rosé any ratings or TNs are available for a subscription fee at WS too. I hope that the links for the 1993 Dom helps.

Hey! I was a Disney Castmember for several years!

It depends. I don't want to slam the idea so as to discourage, but I cannot sugar coat it. Generally, in my experience, bartending schools are not looked at very favourably by bar management. Keep in mind that educational institutions are not public service, but are profitable businesses. Unfortunately many bartending schools are some of the ones that are more about profit than imparting some great knowledge and bartending wisdom. [this is all very IMHO] Throughout the time I've bartended for a living, I have become personally aware of schools charging nearly $1000 tuition for their students to work with fake ice cubes and coloured waters to practice mixology, and provide empty promises for job placement. In fact, I became aware of one local bartending school that took our restaurant's bartender drink recipe book and training manual(s), reproduced it at say, Kinko's, and used them as the class material handouts. This is also the same school that used the bar manager's name falsely representing to their students that positions were open and available to them upon their completion. Every Spring new graduates stream in, waiving around a flimsy certificate of completion as a badge of honour, fill out applications but lack actual hands-on experience. As policy we do not hire anyone without a verifiable minimum of two years of similar high volume experience. There is MUCH discussion of this issue on Webtender, however a search will yield approximately 2595 hits regarding that topic. I'll see if I can sift through and find some of the better discussions, as this is a topic that is usually brought up in a new thread at least once a week. I'll post back with a few links. However in the meantime, I trust this lady -- Cheryl Charming. Here is her web page to this FAQ.

Delicious sounding food jackal10. Those are some handsome pheasants. I once worked on an island club that the grounds keeper raised them. The island's longest strip of green grass served three purposes - primaryily the fairway for the three holed golfing extravaganza, the island's runway for private jets and very territorial grounds for the wondering pheasants. One early Tuesday afternoon when I was returning from my "weekend of time off the rock," they were so stubborn we had to re-circle to scare them off so we could land. I tried bribing these strong willed creatures as the grounds keeper was always around the bar area tinkering with this or that with the pool and they followed him everywhere. They make the oddest and rather unexpected sounds. Back to Christmas food -- I'm really procrastinating with the trip to the supermarket myself as I need some last minutes like eggs and healthful foods I'll snack on in the middle of all this marathon baking that I can call "meals." Nice pictures.

Probably Matt Stillman's Q&A response here.