slkinsey

Um... isn't the first T pronounced? I've always heard: [mõ-tRa-Se], and [mõ-Ra-Se] just doesn't seem right to me. (NB. I'm using a big "S" in place of the usual IPA symbol for "sh" which doesn't seem to work in Explorer; the big "R" means it is uvular). One of my favorite mispronunciations, which I think is mentioned in one of Mario Batali's books, is when people say they want their pasta "al dante." As in, "please prepare my pasta in the style of the guy who wrote The Divine Comedy."

Interesting thoughts, Joe. I wonder to what extent the aesthetic and intellectual aspects of food can be separated from the sensual and gustatory pleasure aspects. For me, for example, one of the main pleasures of single malt scotch has been intellectual. I like the fact that one can taste the peat, the sea, the heather and the oak and glean something about the place of origin, raw ingredients, distillation process and subsequent treatment. Whether or not it tastes really good is, in some ways, secondary to my enjoyment. In fact, an argument could be made that well-done blended scotches taste better than single malt scotches but are not as intellectually interesting. Certainly I can envision food that might be very interesting from an intellectual standpoint but might not necessarily taste all that great. And, for me, I am willing to go down that path to a certain extent. But I am sure everyone has a certain distance they are willing to travel in that direction. For most people I imagine there is some minimum level of sensual and gustatory pleasure they feel must be met. This has real parallels in the music and art worlds. For example, although Maria Callas has legions of admirers and was undoubtedly a great interpretive artist, I have always had trouble listening through her technical flaws and the fact that her voice often sounded like a cat being beaten with, er, another cat. These considerations are, it seems, quite relevant to El Bulli, but might make an interesting wider topic all on their own.

Nothing wrong with it at all... It's just not a cocktail, and it sure ain't a martini. But nothing wrong with it per se.

well, Gin with Lime Juice, I find they don't put enough Triple Sec. My Gimlet recipie calls for some form of london dry gin, jose cuervo's marguirita mix in place of the normal lime juice, and about a 1/4oz triple sec. mmmmmm Inspired by your post, I just made gimlets for myself and the GF. 2.5 ounces Junípero and 0.75 ounces Rose's. It was a good mix. Junípero is very heavy on the juniper (as the name would suggest), so the flavor of the gin shines through the Rose's, which is present in sufficient quantity to impart the requisite sour and sweet flavors.

This is an interesting and salient point, Jonathan. Steingarten has remarked several times that newborn children are not repulsed by the sight or smell of rotting and/or maggot-infested meat.

Have a family house in the mountains of Western North Carolina. Had plenty of souse meat, head cheese and the like there... but no squirrel brains.

You know, "Adam," I find it ironic that you decry my alleged argumentative nature on one side of your mouth while at the same time the other side impugns and slights me. As much as you would like to pretend you are the "wounded party" here, the sarcastic remarks and personal comments have generally come from you and I have barely replied in kind. I thought my "silly argument" (another disparaging characterization from you) illustrated well the point I was making. You said: To which I replied: The example was used to illustrate the point that, even though one may have to look "long and hard to find a tradition," this does not in and of itself mean that the tradition doesn't exist. Your contention, on the other hand, was neatly contradicted by your own statement downthread. If people have been eating rabbit brains on a regular basis, that strikes me as a "time-honored practice." If, as you profess, you had wanted to have a discussion about tradition and Adria's cooking or the tradition of eating brains -- or if you had even wanted to ever directly respond to any of my points, you always had that option. Looking through this thread, however, it seems fairly clear that you chose not to travel down any of these paths. The fork in the road was your sarcastic post of Nov 3 2003, 11:21 AM. If you want to engage in any discussion of substance without the personal remarks -- as you are clearly capable of doing -- I and others would welcome it. Any more of the same, I don't have the time for. I think that kind of thing is more common in Varmint's neck of the woods (which is to say, Appalachia).

Dude, they do the brain eating, not the other way around. And I hope you can believe me when I tell you that there is definitely a strong tradition among ferrets of eating rabbit brains!

There are two ways you can do it: #1 hit the "quote" button to quote the post to which you are responding. #2 copy the section that you want to quote and bracket it with QUOTE tags, like this: [QUOTE]Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Donec luctus feugiat mi. Vivamus malesuada, libero eu posuere pellentesque, mi dolor laoreet ipsum, at tincidunt mi tortor ac felis. Cras gravida dolor in nulla. Fusce adipiscing ligula vel erat. Nunc metus nulla, placerat id, vestibulum sit amet, bibendum et, magna. Aliquam justo purus, luctus et, suscipit eu, adipiscing in, pede. Donec nonummy accumsan ante. Nam nibh augue, vehicula vel, ornare in, rhoncus et, lorem. Proin aliquet luctus ligula. Nullam felis massa, ullamcorper in, auctor nec, iaculis vel, quam. Cras tempus. Praesent tincidunt varius elit.[/QUOTE]

So I think that the brain dish evolved in the way you suggested, rather then been plucked wholesale from some rich peasant tradition of sitting down to bowl of rabbit brains and beans. I would like to point out, and in so doing to address your earlier remark concerning "buxkinsey logic," that I don't think either Bux nor I suggested that anyone ever did sit down to a bowl of "rabbit brains and beans" or that Adria's dish was "plucked wholesale from some rich peasant tradition." If that is what you have been arguing against, we have not been discussing the same thing. What Bux suggested is that Adria's use of rabbit brains does not represent a move away from Spanish traditions per se. What I suggested is that, contrary to your assertion, Bux's statement is not illogical. I agree with both of you that Adria's dish most likely evolved in the way tan suggests. My main difference with you is that I think eating rabbit brains is a traditional Spanish/French/Italian practice to the extent that it relates to the consumption of rabbits either hunted or raised -- which is the way most people got their rabbits prior to the 20th century.

Sam, what do you mean by tradition? I don't know anyone other than you that would consider "eating squirrel's brains" a "tradition in the U.S., unless of course you use a widely different definition of tradition than me. 1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication. 2a. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage. b. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See synonyms at heritage. 3. A body of unwritten religious precepts. 4. A time-honored practice or set of such practices. 5. Law Transfer of property to another. The eating of squirrel brains in certain areas of the US is definitely a "time-honored practice." If you are basing your point on the material you quoted above, I don't quite get it. Here we have cultures in which there is a longstanding, strong and well documented tradition of eating absolutely every little bit of food animals -- intestines, organs, brains, sometimes even whole small birds bones and all. It follows then, in my opinion, that one should presuppose this is the case with all food animals in these cultures unless shown otherwise. I am not demanding others to prove me wrong in this case, I am simply stating what I think is the most reasonable logical argument. It seems counterintuitive to me that Spanish, French and Italian traditions a. which are very strong in eating the whole animal, b. which do include dishes prepared with the brains of larger animals, and c. which do eat a lot of rabbit (including all of the other organs)would somehow mysteriously not eat rabbit brains.

Now, that's funny. Decorum restrains me from making the personal remark that springs to mind relating to this comment. I will, however, say that I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about -- the discussion we had on "seltic" versus "keltic" pronunciation or perhaps the semantic definition of "aioli"? I will only offer that my interpretation of those discussions differs from your own. Let me see if I can lay this out for you, since you seem to be following a different discussion than I: Bux says: Brains are a delicacy in France, Spain, Italy. So is rabbit. Therefore serving rabbit brains is not a break from Adria's Spanish roots. You say: That's not logical [i.e., "you're wrong"]. There is no tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in those countries. I say: As to the tradition, they do eat brains and they do eat rabbit. Given the evidence we have in places like the US where we eat squirrel brains, and given that these countries have strong traditions of eating the whole animal, it is almost a certainty that there does exist a tradition of eating rabbit brains. You say: Who gives a shit what you guess? Bux is saying that Adria is drawing on a wide tradition of eating rabbit brains. I say: There is a lot that suggests eating rabbit brains is traditional in those countries as part of the traditions of eating the whole animal and eating plenty of rabbit -- actually, given those traditions, the case would have to be made against a tradition of eating rabbit brains. It is unlikely that many dishes were eaten of nothing but rabbit brains, and there is undoubtedly less eating of rabbit brains today since most rabbits are bought in markets rather than raised or hunted, but I don't think this is crucial to Bux's point. You say: That's all just silly talk. You prove my point by saying that they probably don't eat dishes made out of only rabbit brains. What I don't see here is anyone saying "drawing on blah, blah, Spanish traditions blah, blah." Other than you in your strawman arguments, I mean. My main point, that you have failed to address, is: If you want to spare me the pompous rhetoric and actually discuss this point, I am happy to continue... although I have to say that I don't think you have a leg to stand on with respect to this point.

I'm glad we cleared that up, as I agree that breaking Bux's balls about whether or not Adria's use of rabbit brains was a sign the chef was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions was silly indeed. Indeed. I can't stress enough that, just because you are not aware of certain culinary traditions, ignorance doesn't mean that such traditions do not exist. Everything we know about the three countries under discussion leads one to presuppose that they would eat the brains of rabbits because they would eat all edible parts of the rabbit, as is their common practice with every animal. The assumption that Adria needed to draw on a Spanish tradition of eating dishes made exclusively of rabbit brains exists, as far as I can tell, only in your own mind.

I have eaten a ragu of rabbit organ meats -- presumably including the kidneys -- a time or two.

Well if it your 'guess' that they 'definately' did (and I haven't suggested that somewhere, somewhen in thes countries, somebody didn't eat rabbit brains on a regular basis) then that means, eh, "definately a guess about something"? No... my guess is that there is a tradition now (and given relatively unknown traditions such as the aforementioned squirrel brain eating tradition in the US, I'd say it is a very strong guess -- and I note that you won't find dishes composed mostly of squirrel brains on any American restaurant menus either). I don't think there is any doubt that there has been a tradition of eating rabbit brains in the past, as all three of the countries in question have strong traditions of eating the whole animal from nose to tail. Countries that eat rabbit kidneys, rabbit livers, rabbit hearts, etc. are not going to turn up their noses at the brains. The example of traditions such as the American squirrel brain eating tradition suggests that the "common person's" -- or your -- awareness of such is not a litmus test when it comes to the authenticity of those traditions. I don't get that he is saying that at all. What I get is exactly what he said: People eat brains in these countries. People eat rabbit in these countries. Therefore using rabbit brains in a dish is not a break with tradition in the sense that it is related to these two traditions (certainly not any more of a break than anything else Adria does). This logical argument is not dependant on the supposition of "wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain." My feeling is that, given the foregoing, it is absolutely the case that there has been such a wider tradition in France, Italy and Spain. Regardless, that supposition is not necessary for Bux's contention that eating brains (a traditional practice) of rabbits (a traditional food) is not a break with Adria's Spanish traditions. As to whether there is a tradition of eating dishes made mostly or only out of rabbit brains... probably not. One would have to kill an awful lot of rabbits to make a single dish out of nothing but the brains. No doubt there is very little eating of things like rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain these days because most people buy their rabbit rather than hunting it.

This is not logical. I think that you would have to look long and hard to find a tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in any of the countries you have mentioned. Perhaps so... but it does seem to me that those countries (a) do have traditions of eating animal brains and, (b) do have traditions of eating rabbit. As to whether or not they have traditions of eating rabbit brains specifically... that's harder to say. My strong suspicion is that suchg traditions do exist, regardless of one's awareness of them. One might very well look at the United States and say that it is "hard to find a tradition of regularly eating squirrel brains" in the US. This would be a remark made in ignorance, however, because the fact is that eating squirrel brains is a very traditional practice in certain parts of the US -- so much so that the government issued a warning against it when it began to look like the consumption of squirrel brains was a vector for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. My guess is that there is now, and definitely has been, a tradition of eating of rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain.

Other good stone surfaces are slate, soapstone and bluestone.

...although one should be mindful of the neighborhood before saying that you want, "a big piece of meat, and well hung."

Get yourself a copy of It Must've Been Something I Ate: The Return of the Man Who Ate Everything by Jeffrey Steingarten. One of the chapters describes dry aging beef and his own attempts to do so. Oh... and welcome to eGullet.

Don't you see, it's the magnets. Hmmm... Well, the earth does have a very large magnetic field... Yes, but are they rare earth magnets? There are, after all, billlllllllllllllllllllllllllllions and billlllllllllllllllllllllllllllions of other planets and only one Earth. So, in that sense, it's a rare Earth magnet.

Don't you see, it's the magnets. Hmmm... Well, the earth does have a very large magnetic field...

I suppose it depends somewhat on one's definition of "supernatural." I would place something like making sure that all the maturation tanks faced North in this category. Well... this would also include organic, as there do not appear to have been meaningfully large differences between yields from organic and biodynamic crops, whereas there was a meaningfully large difference between yields from these two crops compared to the yield from the "regular" methods.

I think this makes Sam's suggestion problematic: It's not like some shitty coop suddenly started producing Yquem from ugni blanc or something. We're talking about careful, dedicated and passionate producers with some pretty nice plots of land where people have been growing grapes for 2,000 years. I'm not quite sure how or in what sense it makes my suggestion -- or, rather, my question -- problematic. But I think it is likely that I just don't understand what you're getting at. Were these vinyards, in fact, using a "similar level of care and attention" prior to adopting biodynamic methods? I find that hard to believe, as I have a difficult time picturing a more labor intensive method, or one more inherrently connected to the ground and the crops, than the biodynamic method. Did these high-qualitiy wineries suddenly experience a huge jump in quality when they went over to biodynamic methods as opposed to the methods they had previously used? Or is it the case that the character of the wine changed slightly when the farming methods changed? If the latter is true, that makes perfect sense -- especially if the change was a relatively small one from organic to biodynamic. New cultivation, fertilization, growing and harvesting methods will necessarily impart differences in the end result. We know this is the case. Also, it is important to understand what the previous methods were and how they differed from biodynamic methods. To extend this line of reasoning, it doesn't surprise me too much that there are observed, and even characteristic, differences between "regular" organic soil and biodynamic soil. The fact that the biodynamic method uses different and special compost (containing, among other things, ground quartz, yarrow flowers, chamomile flowers, stinging nettle plants, ground oak bark, dandelion, valerian flowers, horsehair and extra-fermented cow manure) should produce some unique and characteristic differences in and of itself. The question still remains -- and I think it is a very valid one -- whether or not someone could practice farming techniques identical to those used in biodynamic farming, but minus the new-age hokus pokus, and produce equivalent results. I found it interesting in the Science report you cited (which may be found here in its entirety) that they state right up front that "mean crop yield was 21% lower [in the organic systems] over a period of 21 years." My guess as to the cause of the observed difference in biological activity and diversity between organic and biodynamic spoil is that the latter's compost, due to its specific and varied makeup as well as the extended fermentation, were already more active and diverse.

I wandered around in the link that Sandra provided, and found this. Are those something like what you're after? It's not end grain, though. If you poke around the John Boos web site, you will see that they sell big chunks of end grain butcher block for use in countertops (look on this page for "End Grain Island Tops"). You could join together two 36" x 32" pieces for a total of 36" x 64". This is not cheap stuff, though. One 36" x 32" piece will set you back 653 bucks.

Yea... I've noticed that too. I tend to only use black truffles if I am going to use one of the various processed forms (oil, paste, whatever).