slkinsey
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Posts posted by slkinsey
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Totally needs to be photographed. And at least one of the test specimens needs to be a plain cheese/tomato sauce pizza.
My thought is that, rather than giving a composite rating or anything like that, we would just give our own brief tasting notes. Kind of like they do in the NY Times when the food critics get together and taste 10 kinds of silver tequilla, only about pizza instead... as in: "I thought the pizza was nicely charred on the bottom, while JJ thought it was too carbonized and interfered with the taste of the blah blah blah..."
What about places to visit? Would we want to do "NY pizza places" or places in NY that serve pizza. Tha argument could be made that there are notable pizzerie in NYC that do not make NY-style pizza.
An initial list:
DiFara
Patsy's in East Harlem
Totonno
John's?
Otto?
V&T?
You tell me...
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Here is a quick clickable index of Pizza Survey outings and discussion:
- Conception and Organization (right here)
- Di Fara
- Grimaldi's
- Patsy's East Harlem
- Giorgione
- Lombardi's
- Totonno's Coney Island
- L&B Spumoni Garden
- Arturo's Coal Oven Pizza
Plus: - Some musing on mozzarella
- Some discussion on Franny's (not yet visited by the Survey) here and here
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With all the recent traffic on real NY-style pizza and various pizzerie, it looks like it's time to get a group together to visit the well-known New York places and see what we think. I wouldn't say we're looking for the "best pizza in New York" because there are too many differences to make such a judgment. Rather, I think it would be fun to see what's out there and discuss how we react to it. Since there are a relatively limited number of "best of class" NY places, it might also be interesting to revisit some places to see what we think after hopefully gaining some expertise.
What I propose is that use this thread to come up with a list of places, coordinate trips and report back our impressions. Possible related events might include arranging a kitchen visit in some of the famous places to learn about how it's all done, and gathering at pizzeria slkinsey for some of the Roman style pizza for which I am famous (justly? you decide!).
So... who's interested?
- Conception and Organization (right here)
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Upon reading through this thread, the thought of checking out what Harold McGee had to say about aspartame in 1984 came to mind. He's somewhat enlightening, I think:It has the disadvantages of breaking down and losing its sweetness at cooking temperatures and in acid foods, and of being unsafe for people who are born with the metabolic defect called phenylketonuria and who must limit their intake of phenylalanine.
Maybe those who react adversely are sufferers of this metabolic problem, rather than victims of some great conspiracy to market poison to the masses?
This specifically refers to people with phenylketonuria (PKU). PKU is a rare inherited disease in which individuals cannot properly metabolize the amino acid phenylalanine. This is why all products containing aspartame in the US feature the warning: "Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine."
I don't think its possible to have a "mild case of PKU" or to be a phenylketonuric and not know about it. It is a very serious disease.
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Um... so what? There still remains the fact that the vast majority of reputable, peer-reviewed science does not support the assertion that aspartame is any more unsafe than, say, mangos.
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I think it's important to understand that we're talking about the classic NY pizza, not the typical NY pizza.
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Granite has been with us for like a billion years. There's granite from ancient fucking Rome that has been sitting outside exposed to the elements every damn day for millenia and it still looks fine. Nobody sealed it every year and I refuse to believe the Coliseum would fracture if you put a hot pot on it.
Um... the Coliseum in Rome is made of concrete, with travertine for the piers and arcades.
Point well taken about the durability of granite, though.
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1. From a letter in The Lancet:
Aspartame, a dipeptide composed of phenylalanine and aspartic acid linked by a methyl ester bond, is not absorbed, and is completely hydrolysed in the intestine to yield the two constituent aminoacids and free methanol. Opponents of aspartame suggest that the phenylalanine and methanol so released are dangerous. In particular, they assert that methanol can be converted to formaldehyde and then to formic acid, and thus cause metabolic acidosis and neurotoxicity.Although a 330 mL can of aspartame-sweetened soft drink will yield about 20 mg methanol, an equivalent volume of fruit juice produces 40 mg methanol, and an alcoholic beverage about 60-100 mg. The yield of phenylalanine is about 100 mg for a can of diet soft drink, compared with 300 mg for an egg, 500 mg for a glass of milk, and 900 mg for a large hamburger. Thus, the amount of phenylalanine or methanol ingested from consumption of aspartame is trivial, compared with other dietary sources. Clinical studies have shown no evidence of toxic effects and no increase in plasma concentrations of methanol, formic acid, or phenylalanine with daily consumption of 50 mg/kg aspartame (equivalent to 17 cans of diet soft drink daily for a 70 kg adult).
2. I note that Ralph G. Walton's study (aolready of dubious reliability, due to being a meta-analysis) is not published in a peer-reviewed journal.
3. The reason the FDA stopped tracking adverse reaction reports on aspartame is because they determined that they did not have any merit.
More information on the various anti-aspartame scams may be found here. As the good folks at about.com suggest, if the word of the FDA and the mainstream medical research community is not good enough for you, read through the last 20 years of research on Medline and decide for yourself.
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I am actually surprized more people don't mention soapstone. I'm definitely going with a mixture of soapstone and end-grain butcher block when the time comes.
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A New York style pizza should look like this.
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How about Genesis Ale and Messiah Bold from He'Brew - The Chosen Beer.
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Wow... this is a controversial topic, to say the least.
IMO, authentic NY style pizza has a thin crust, not too many topings, is baked in a coal-fired oven and has some char on the bottom. There may be some commonalities in terms of sauce and cheese -- I don't know. Patsy's in East Harlem strikes me as the archetype. Others will no doubt have something to say about that.
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I've grilled brats outside Lambeau Field in subzero windchill. Had to dress like this:
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Ugh. Me too. Whatever this flu/cold thing that's going around, I have it.
Rats... I like pie.
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Robin, I am not sold on the whole Calphalon One thing. I hate nonstick, except for very specific applications (delicate fish, eggs, that kind of thing), and there is nothing about this new line that makes me think Calphalon has solved their warping problem. As for the steamer basket, most people find that it's difficult to do better than a cheapo hardware store collapsible metal steamer.
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Um... what is a Buchner filter/funnel, and what does it do? A brief google search seems to indicate that it is some kind of scientific equipment?
What, exactly, do you propose to filter? Could you, for example, puree tomatoes and then filter out the tomato water? Or would the filter be so fine that the flavor components wouldn't make it through?
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Opening a champagne bottle by sword is actually pretty easy. Something to do with the structural design of the bottle. You can even do it with the back of a heavy chef's knife.
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Looks like a pretty good deal, at 40 bucks less than Falk Culinair. However, as with some of the Mauviel deals referenced elsewhere on this thread, I must mention that it always concerns me when I see a relatively unknown player offering a price much lower than what all the better known outfits of known reliability are offering.
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As for shape, if you want something primarily for roasting and braising rather than, say, stews, you might want to consider what LC calls its "buffet casserole" -- it's much shallower than the round or oval french oven style, but comes with a lid, which makes it more versatile than most dedicated roasting pans.
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Of course, the solution to the unseasoned iron pot problem is to do a lot of deep-frying in it before you cook anything the iron might react with.
Well, in my book any excuse for deep frying is a good one! That said, while good seasoning can mitigate iron's reactivity quite a bit, it does not entirely eliminate the problem with respect to long/wet cooking and acidic ingredients.
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On to the question, I think the first piece I would like to acquire is an 11 inch curved Sautease Evasee, or larger. This pan perfectly matches the braising etc I do.
Cool. I really do feel that this is the most versatile pan in the kitchen. That said, I prefer enameled cast iron for really heavy-duty braising.
My question is two fold, first are these only available in lined copper or do they also come in stainless steel with a core of copper?These pans are available in a number of configurations (in order of preference): stainless lined heavy copper (e.g., Bourgeat, Falk Culinair), stainless lined heavy aluminum (e.g., All-Clad MasterChef and LTD), fully clad copper (e.g., All-Clad Copper Core), fully clad aluminum (e.g., All-Clad Stainless), aluminum and copper disk bottom (e.g., Sitram, Paderno). Not all of these configurations are available in the 11" size, however. AFAIK, these are only available in heavy copper or clad aluminum. This is okay, because I think it makes the most sense to get a straight-gauge pan of this type/size anyway, as opposed to disk bottom.
The only cookware with a copper interior and a stainless interior/exterior is All-Clad's Copper Core line. I don't think they make an 11" sauteuse evasee, and anyway I think the line is absurdly expensive for what you get.
Also, what is the best place to get one? I did not see one on the Bridge kitchenware site. I will be in the city in February, so is Zabar's a good place to buy cookware? Or is there a better online place.Personally, I think you're likely to get the best deals on the Internet. If you decide on heavy copper, I recommend Falk Culinair. They have an 11-inch "saucière" for 235 bucks. Buy an 11-inch stainless lid elsewhere (this one from Paderno fits very well, and is 50 dollars less than Falk's coper cover).
If you'd rather have aluminum, I recommend All-Clad's MasterChef line. This line is the least expensive and also has the thickese layer of aluminum, so it's a winner on both fronts. SuzanneF, who is no stranger to good equipment, has plenty of this stuff. They have 10.5-inch "saucier" which retails for around 180 bucks. You should never pay retail, of course, because you can get a slightly flawed one from Cookware and More for 120 bucks.
There is a slight difference in design between the copper manufacturers and All-Clad. Ths sides in All-Clad's design are a little higher in relation to the diameter of the pan -- 38% as opposed to 33% in copper. This means that the 10.5-inch All-Clad piece has 4-inch tall sides and holds 5.5 quarts as opposed to the 11-inch copper pieces which have 3.6-inch tall sides and hold 4.5 quarts.
The best cookware stores in NYC are, in my opinion: Bridge Kitchenware, Broawday Panhandler, JB Prince, and Zabar's. That said, I don't think the salespeople at Broadway Panhandler or Zabar's really know all that much about the products.
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I, for one, totally disagree with the philosophy that a restaurant should tailor its wine cellar and menu to the lowest common denominator. If a restaurant does not find a white zinfandel or pinot grigio of sufficient quality that they feel matches well with their menu, there is no reason they should offer one. If the lack of such wines proves to be a barrier to repeat business for certain customers, it is up to the restaurant management to decide whether or not to make a change.
More important, in my opinion, is that the sommelier be friendly, approachable and takes the initiative in offering (and describing, if necessary) his or her services. I think a lot of customers who are unsophisticated with respect to wine are often intimidated by a 650 wine list and reluctant to seek the assistance of the wine professional. They feel like they are required to make a choice, and seek out something they know. In cases like Mark's where customers are choosing pinot grigio based on familiarity with the cheap stuff expecting one thing and being unsatisfied when they get something different, I think it makes sense to take pinot grigio off the list.
I don't know much about wine beyond recognizing a good one when I drink it. What I want is a sommelier who will find out what people are eating, ascertain a price range and never pressure for an upsell, incorporate whatever wine preferences the customers might express into the recommendation, and make a recommendation in such a way as to make the customers feel as though they participated in the decision. It doesn't hurt to make the customers feel as though they are being let in on something special and unusual, as well. It also doesn't hurt to present the customers with several recommendations from which to choose, so they feel empowered. If customers complain that there is no white zinfandel on the menu, the sommelier can easily ask what it is that they like about white zinfandel and say, "we don't have white zinfandel on our list, but if you like white zinfandel, you're really going to like this riesling, it's blah blah blah."
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There are two issues here:
First is that the word sauté is often misunderstood and misapplied. Sauté comes from the French verb sauter, which means "to jump." Foods which are "sauté" are "jumped." Specifically, they are jumped around in a pan. This means that one takes irregular chunks of food, places them in a pan over high heat and shakes the pan back and forth to jump the food around in the pan and brown all the pieces evenly on all sides. It is important to use high heat because, at lower temperatures, the ingredients will exude their liquid and suddenly the items are being stewed in their own juices. When food is just sitting in the pan, it is not being sautéd, it is being fried.
Second, understanding the foregoing, I don't see how it would be possible to sauté with water instead of fat. First of all, there would be no browning -- one of the primary goals of a sauté. Second, the presence of excess liquid makes jumping the ingredients around difficult at best. Third, I don't quite understand why this technique wouldn't be more accurately described using already existing and commonly understood cooking terms (steaming, stewing, simmering, braising, sweating, etc.).
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Raw cast iron is not recommended for the kinds of low/slow braising and cooking of long-simmered tomato sauces for which one uses an enameled cast iron casserole. It's too reactive.
is it really that much of a problem? most times, a tomato sauce will be darkish, so discolouring won't show, and a little iron can't be harmful, anyway. only thing i can think of is that the casserolle might slowly rust away...
The problem is not the discoloration, altough that is certainly an issue. The problem is more that the reactive iron causes off-flavors.
If someone doesn't mind, or even appreciates the iron flavor, like Big Bunny, then it's not a problem. Personally, I don't want that flavor in my tomato sauces, braises, stocks, etc.
NYC Pizza Survey
in New York: Dining
Posted
I agree. I'd add Totonno to that list, as it is also one of the famous traditional places.