docsconz

I'll second this notion. UP at its peak with Rocco was one of the best and most creative restaurants in the country IMO.

The place is actually called Ferdinando's and not Fernando's. The panelle are simply the best. I love the panelle special sandwich with ricotta and cacciocavallo. The arrancine are also amongst the best in the city and a much better value than Del Posto.

That is interesting that Elena Arzak is the one bringing "hypermodern" cooking into Arzak. Is that a newly coined term, Pedro, or one that has found its way into general use? It seems to fit, but despite my interest in this area I can't say that I can recall seeing it used before.

DiFara's is pretty far, but you can get excellent pizza at Grimaldi's down by the Brooklyn Bridge. Basically around the corner from Grimaldi's is the original Jacques Torres chocolate shop.

I am somwhat familiar with the hostory of El Bulli and the development of the cuisine of Ferran Adria as that has been so well documented. What about Juan Marie Arzak? Can anyone relate a timeline of the evolution of his cuisine, especially as it relates to the concurrent evolution of Adria's? Santamaria takes a different view of cuisine than these too and so I think must be viewed differently. Are there others that are as important or nearly so in the development of avant-garde cuisine in Spain? I am talking about from the early days of the development of the movement, not current practitioners. How long has Berasategui been on the seen and is his cuisine of the same movement (I have not yet tried his cooking)? The Roca brothers?

Another great report, Molto. Both Butter and Schwa look like they would be right up my alley. I may have to expand my Chicago wish list a bit more.

Not to quibble, Daniel, but this meal probably occurred in2004! I love the diversity of experiences posted on here. There is so much that goes into making a meal a great meal. The food itself is certainly an integral part of it, but I think one's own state of being at the time of the meal is also significant. That being said, I have had great moods thwarted by bad meals and poor moods elevated by great meals.

Akwa, do you or anyone else see a difference in what This and McGee are doing? You apparently feel This is more influential of the two. Why?

This certainly isn't a scientific survey, but it is interesting to see a very high percentage of DC restaurants here. For my money DC has come along way as a food town in just a few years. It is in my experience one of the very best food cities in the US right now. There is some really solidly excellent food being made there. There is no question that in most years my dinner at Citronelle would have been number one for me and meals at Corduroy, Firefly, Rays the Steaks and Two Amy's though not in my top ten were all very highly regarded.. I am very much looking forward to a return visit to that city, whenever that will be!

Great post, Jim. I agree that wine is all about the interaction with people. 2005 is a year that I took a step back from wine. It is still a big interest and important part of enjoying a good meal, but I had less interest in purchasing and seeking out new wines. This is probably a combination of space available and the stratospheric prices so many wines have risen to. I find that most, while good simply aren't worth those prices. As for seeking out other cheaper wines, I don't really have the space now to store them for experimentation. As such I am only buying wines for very specific reasons such as special vintage wines from birth and anniversary years and wines with other associations like my trip to South Africa. Happy Holidays and good cheer, Doc

I think they may have toned down their prices a little bit as these seem less expensive than what I remember seeing on the menu. My recollection is that the majority of the pastas were between $20-30 per plate. Even so, I qualified my complaints as primarily relating to the lounge not having been able to sample anything from the regular menu. I stated in this post One reason restaurants have soft openings is to get a feel for their concept and to tweek it. I very much hope they tweeked this one. mario is too good a chef and restauranteur to go with what I saw (Ihope).

What were the misses and why?

I too retired a successful wine merchant, happy and content with semillon and zinfandel and 80 pieces of gold.

While I can't answer this question, I would like to welcome you to eGullet! Forgive me for not doing so in my previous response.

Interesting responses. Thank you Akwa and Doc-G. I would tend to agree that Adria, Achatz and Dufresne for example (I am most well acquainted with their work) tend to use the science of food production as the means to an artistic and creative end rather than as a purely scientific end, but I would think that would be true for Bras, Gagnaire and Blumenthal as well as other chefs of this bent. The people who are exploring the primarily scientific aspects of MG are people such as This and McGee. That is why the former are chefs and the latter food scientists involved in bringing the science of food to these and other chefs and cooks. This is largely the difference between applied science and theoretical science. I am interested here primarily in the development of the movement that brought science into creative restaurant kitchens. Technique has always been important, even if people never really understood why certain techniques were important and others didn't matter. What the applied scientists are doing is stretching the boundaries of food and science, because in their own experimentation they are discovering new techniques and ingredients to make them work and creat alchemical equations. Of course while a number of these equations are gold others are merely pyrrhite. According to my interpretation of Akwa's information it would appear that the application of science first started entering into restaurant kitchens in the 70's. That seem to go along with the development of nouvelle cuisine. The concepts of nouvelle cuisine would seem to support that, as it involved explorations of techniques and ingredients to achieve particular culinary effect without some of the cuisine's ancestral chains. Efforts were made to lighten food and present it in unique ways without sacrificing flavor or texture. I am not familiar with the futurist movement as applied to food in the 1930's, although I am familiar with the movement a applied to painting and sculpture. From what I can see the culinary component of that movement did not involve so much an application of scientific principles into art as much as just an artistic statement. Am I correct with this conclusion or off-base? If correct it seems to me that that movement may be an influence on today's avant-garde cuisine from a creative, but perhaps not a technical perspective. While I am an aficionado of avant-garde cuisine and MG, I am by no means an expert in its history and development. I do find this subject fascinating and wish to increase my understanding. There is enough knowledge and experience on these fora to provide significant historical context or so i would imagine. I appreciate Akwa's insights and knowledge of this matter, but hope for even more detail from him and others While I appreciate the general search reference for the Copenhage Conference, half the fun is the interaction here with others of similar interest. I think that we have got off to a good start by defining what we are examining with these movements.

Sorry folks, if I go to a restaurant in N.J., I post about it in N.J. There is nothing to keep N.J.'ites from posting in N.Y. as has obviously happened on this topic If the NY forum is NYC centric, I think the reasons are obvious, however, NYC-centric does not mean NYC exclusive. It would be less NYC-centric if therre was more interest and posting on these non-NYC areas such as is occurring with this topic. Keep it up! I was very disappointed with a Suffern restaurant last weekend that I had heard a lot about - Pasta Cucina. We stopped there on our way back upstate from Northern NJ. It was extremely mediocre - big quantities, little quality.

With their location they need valet parking if they are going to attract anyone from the burbs. Most Cityfolk would probably go by cab as public transportation isn't too convenient either. C'mon people has anyone else had a scrap of food there?

I hate to tell you, but $29 is par for the course for parking garages in NYC. As a despised "bridge and tunnel" person I'm actually quite happy that dedicated restaurant parking is avaliable. In some parts of NYC, its not unusual to pay $40 for parking, sometimes $50. So I think the restaurant is being pretty damn reasonable. $29 for a whole evening which ensures the safetly of my vehicle is not a big thing for someone like me to swallow. ← Those other parking garages are independent businesses looking to make a buck independent of anything else. At the prices Del Posto was charging at least as of a couple of weeks ago, parking should be free, I think this is a place designeed for conspicuous consumption and little else. I expect the food to be tasty, but from what I have personally seen the value is way out of whack. This place appears to be a paeon to ego and greed at least from my first impression. I very much hope that this impression is proven wrong, though.

This is one of the things that makes eGullet so compelling as individuals can discuss whatever they wish about food and people with similar interests will likely respond.

Actually both, Will. I am very interested in the history of these movements if indeed they are distinct as you imply. I was under the impression that they are of the same mold with perhaps differences in expression. In the quote from you that I posted above you seem to imply that perhaps the origens and substance really make for two distinct approaches and movements. Perhaps I am reading in to what you wrote, but that is my take on it. Specifically, what are the initial tenets of Molecular Gastronomy a la This and how do they differ from the Adria school? My own experience shows a marked difference of approach between Adria and Gagnaire for example when I dined at each restaurant within one week of the other, but are those differences of approach or simply style and from whence do they come? I appreciate your knowledge and input and hope others will chime in as well.

By the way, Brooks - orgies? I just call them like I see them, Doc. Seriously though, I think that when you get into a description of that kind of dining experience that there is a sensual component that is very analogous to good sex. It's all about higher levels of pleasure and trying to achieve some kind of sensory overload by using an external medium as the catalyst-in this case, it would be well prepared food.

From this post in the Gilt thread by Akwa Will, can you elaborate on this, please?

Akwa, thank you. I am finding this duscussion very interesting. Although Gilt was the inspiration for this tangent, the body of the tangent involves much more than Gilt. I have many more questions about this history that I would love to hear more about if you and/or others are patient and interested enough to answer, however, they rightfully belong in another broader topic. As such I have starte a topic on this here

An interesting discussion has grown out of the topic on the restaurant Gilt in the New York Forum. stemming from the use of pine in various ways amongst contemporary avant-garde restaurants like Gilt, Alinea and WD-50 and past uses by people such as Michel Bras and Ferran Adria amongst others. This topic has been spun off to allow for further and deeper discussion about the development of these movements and similarities and differences between the Adria school of avant-garde cuisine as represented by the Adrias, Grant Achatz, Jose Andres, Wylie Dufresne, Homaro Cantu and others and the Molecular Gastronomy movement as evinced by people such as Herve This, Michel Bras and Pierre Gagnaire amongst others. Any insights into the history and development of these movements as well as similarities and differences will be appreciated and should allow for some interesting discussion. Specific written sources would be handy as well.

This thread piqued my interest in Schwa. Put it on my wish list!