Pan
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So you think Meskerem is better than Queen of Sheba or you haven't been to both?
I have yet to try Queen of Sheba. I just certainly didn't have any disappointments on deliciousness of service at the Hell's Kitchen Meskerem last night.
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I've only been to Hell's Kitchen Meskerem a few times which was a bit disapointing both on food qlty and service. The one perk is the byo policy should that interest you. If you really love Ethiopian though, I agree w/Raj, it's worth heading up to Sheba in Hell's Kitchen.
That wasn't my experience. I thought that branch of Meskerem was great! The best Ethiopian food I've ever had! We got the Meskerem Combo, the Vegetarian Combo, and Doro Wat (a chicken leg dish). The injera was really nicely sour, and everything was really tasty; my only slight criticism is that the chicken leg was kind of dry. We also shared a bottle of Tej, which we really liked and found deliciously fruity, with a pleasant honey aftertaste. The place is a real winner, and I will definitely be back. The cost including tip was a bit over $90 all told. And the service was very nice.
Incidentally, we had initially planned on going to Queen of Sheba, but left when they wouldn't seat us (a party of 3) at a 4-top. In fairness, they said it was reserved, so I'm not criticizing them.
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We're going to Queen of Sheba, if any of you were interested in knowing what decision we made. You can still recommend places for further reference, though.
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Hi, everyone. I'm having dinner as part of a party of 3 tomorrow. Preference is for roughly the 30s to 50s on the West Side, though we're somewhat flexible there, and no more than about $25/person. I considered Wondee, but my girlfriend (one of tomorrow's diners) and I have been there recently. Another possibility is Szechuan Gourmet. Pam's Real Thai was considered and rejected, because we think it's good but not as good as Wondee. We all like Korean food, too, so Arirang is possible. All of us like spicy food, but as long as it's really tasty, it's likely to please all of us. Bonus points for someplace we haven't been to yet (e.g., that I haven't already mentioned).
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[...]This gave a nice charring to the guts, and I wonder if it was meant to burn off some of the excess methane?
I just have once conern, however, looking around the flammable plastic, rolls of toilet paper, and the varnished wooden floors with gas lines snaking across them.[...]
Not to mention the alcohol. I'll bet soju would flame up nicely if lit.
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Next Friday? Good luck! I think you'd better go to Open Table right now and see what's available for that number of people anywhere in Manhattan on that day, then come back to us for advice on what you come up with. It's true that not all available tables are listed on Open Table (and some restaurants don't use Open Table at all), but I don't think it's at all likely that a place showing no availability on Open Table would be able to produce a table for 16 for you if you call them, though I could be wrong. I'll add that if there's any way you can reserve for lunch instead of dinner, I believe that you are a whole lot more likely to find a place that's available.
P.S. I would have asked for some cuisine preferences, but that wouldn't be relevant unless they have room for your group.
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Great writing, tupac! Did it occur to you that after posting such mouth-watering descriptions, we won't be able to get into the restaurant anymore?
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[...]Is the Times square location new? Any opinions?
Yeah. After today, I have the following opinion: The 45th St. location sucks; don't go there! I ordered a tongue sandwich, had two bites of it, and found it so disgusting that it was literally nauseating. To his credit, our waiter graciously replaced it with the turkey sandwich I requested as a substitute (I figured they were unlikely to ruin turkey, and they didn't, though it was nothing to write home about). For the sake of completeness, I'll also mention that my cup of matzo ball soup was mediocre.
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sethd
I have had a similar experience at a different four star. Problem is when I went with someone who was known there, the experience was radically different (in a good way). That pissed me off even more. What is the point of being a four star if you walk off the street, pay just as much as the next guy and get half the experience?
Yep.
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[...]It seems that perhaps I need to experience the Gourmand menu again in order to figure out what makes this restaurant so very special. OTOH, I have been extraordinarily reluctant to do so, for fear of being disappointed at a significant financial cost.[...]
Thank you. And that, historically, has been my problem with the New York Times four stars I've been to. I haven't forgotten when I was in high school and went to Lutece with my family that there was sand in the bottom of my Soupe de Pistou. I'm sure the New York Times critic at the time had four-star meals there. I didn't.
And in connection with this, I'd again mention lunch at JG. Even if the lunch prix fixe isn't 4 stars (and clearly, some of us think it is), it's a good value in terms of both food and service and an experience that even those of relatively humble circumstances can make a bit of a splurge on without the kind of fear you so ably express.
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[...]I'm not talking necessarily about value. I'm talking about the type of experience you're more likely to have with a "menu" with high prices. That is to say, at per se and masa there is only one, multi-hour meal to be had at lunch. So the experience is going to be totally different than an experience at Jean Georges or Le Bernardin or Eleven Madison Park for lunch. Will it necessarily be better just because of that fact? I don't know. But what I'm saying is that I *think* some here would say yes.
Again, I don't know whether Eleven Madison Park's lunch is "sheer excellence." It seems that from many on this board, it's not.[...]
Don't you think it would be nice if the restaurants awarded four stars were less controversial? Many people object that Daniel doesn't merit four stars. It seems like there's a fair amount of dissent about 11 Madison Park, too. I think that four-star restaurants should be pretty unquestionable, and regardless of who the customer is, whether they're buying wine (let alone expensive wine), and whether they are ordering a prix fixe, a la carte, or a tasting menu.
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But then it couldn't be four-star.
I think at the four-star level, to factor in "value" is BULLSHIT. Four stars should betoken sheer excellence.
I couldn't agree more. And not only for tasting menus, if there are other options.
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Although I find myself stuck in the middle here, and am not in the "anti-4-stars-EMP" camp by any means, I personally object to the fact that they serve PLENTY of meals that arguably aren't even 3 stars - specifically the 2 course lunches.
This NEVER happens at Per Se, JG, Le Bernardin. Everything that leaves those kitchens are 4 star quality, they constantly strive for the very very top every single time you visit - even in the salon at Per Se for example. They prove themselves from the second the door opens to the second the door closes.
If you go for the dinner tasting or Gourmand, EMP is - in my estimation - a 4 star restaurant. Any other meal leaves some doubt. Some meals leave little doubt that it's not a 4 star restaurant.
That's what bothers me. They are capable. But they don't hold themselves to it 100% of the time (and potentially, a very small % of the time)
As you know, I disagree with you that JG's prix fixe lunch is a 4-star meal. In my experience, it's a good 2 1/2 to 3-star meal and an excellent value and pleasant experience. On the other hand, when I had dinner at 11 Madison Park a few years ago, it was much more disappointing. That doesn't address whether the restaurant has improved drastically since then or whether I had the bad luck of being there on a fluky disastrous day, though (I say disastrous because the service was truly overly slow and probably too preoccupied with whatever exigency was happening in the kitchen to show sufficient care for us as patrons), and I've had lunch at JG only twice so far but am likely to return at some point.
I appreciate your views on 11 Madison Park. I previously entertained thoughts that if we had spent more than the over $500 for 4 people by instead getting tasting menus (impossible with our various dietary restrictions, as well as too expensive), we might have had a truly good dining experience. But then again, on that day, given the service problems, I think probably not.
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Sounds like Pan has.
Yeah. I can't find my Chowhound post about it, but I had lunch there several weeks ago with my girlfriend, and it was disappointing, although we were seemingly ordering from the Sichuan-style menu and made it clear that we were regulars at the 39th St. location and like really spicy real Sichuan-style food, not things sweetened for Americans. To be fair, the food wasn't sweetened, but they use too many canned ingredients and the food just wasn't very good. My girlfriend subsequently got takeout from there and it was very pedestrian. It is in no way comparable to the 39th St. location.
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NYT Diners Blog just announced that Sam Sifton will be the new restaurant critic. Sifton has been Culture Editor for the paper (he had also served as dining editor there) and will be replacing Frank Bruni.
(Deep breath.) Thoughts?
ETA the dining editor bit.
I've liked his writing, so my snap reaction is that he could be a good pick. We shall see.
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So for a visitor that wants to stay in Manhattan, would you all recommend SG or Grand Sichuan or someplace else instead?
SG, but only the 39th St. location.
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Zabar's can be aggressively overpriced, such as for Comte' cheese, and their cheeses can be insipid. I am not impressed.
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We have to agree to disagree, sickchangeup.
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How many times do I have to explain this: nowadays, B&T means Manhattan.
No it doesn't. Though I know at least one Manhattanite who has a B&T attitude. But it certainly no longer means Brooklyn. -
Thanks for the report, Eatmywords. Have you tried the Pizza del Papa (butternut squash cream, smoked mozzarella, artichoke) at Keste? If so, how did it compare to La Riccardo at Zero Otto Nove?
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I'm glad you enjoyed your dinner. Too bad you didn't have room for the dessert, though. If it was that brioche, it was amazing!
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IIRC Grimaldi's does not take any reservations.
John's in Times Square is a good choice. I've definitely large school groups in there. They can even be seated in their own alcove, upstairs.
For Chinatown, Golden Unicorn definitely does group dining and is surprisingly empty at dinner time. Another option is Congee Village as they have multiple dining areas and two locations.
Closer to Times Square/Midtown is the new Szechuan Gourmet on W 56th St, between Broadway and 8th, which apparently has two floors, and might allow you to take over an entire floor.
Otto is good if you order carefully but the pizza is not really "New York" style at all.
A caution about the new location of Szechuan Gourmet:
I went there for lunch with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. I explained that we were regulars at the 39th St. location (perhaps not true, but accurate enough, as we, and especially I, have been there several times) and like real spicy Sichuan food. Our lunch decent but unmemorable. My girlfriend has been back since then and found it disappointing again. It seems to be a far cry from the 39th St. location.
I'd also like to go on record against John's at 44th St. It is edible but not good and the room is of some interest. That's it.
So here are some thoughts:
For Chinese food, my first thought would be for you to check on whether Cantoon Garden can reserve for that many people on the 2nd floor. I've had banquets with up to 19 people accommodated on the ground floor (two large round tables put together). I don't know how big the capacity of the 2nd floor is, but that's my favorite Cantonese restaurant in New York, and it's cheap, to boot. If you do go there, consider ordering some of the Chinese-language banquet sets; discuss with the waiter what the dishes in the sets are, and substitute, subtract, and add at will. The waitstaff tend not to speak lots of English, but they are helpful.
Other Chinese places that have sufficient capacity would include Congee Village (some dishes remain excellent, but they are now inconsistent, whereas a few years ago, they were my favorite Cantonese restaurant), Congee on Bowery between Hester and Grand (they have space in the basement, and I've had good experiences with their food), and the big dim sum eating halls, which are very commonly rented out for huge (non-dim sum) banquets at night: Harmony Palace, the aforementioned Golden Unicorn, Jing Fong (caveat: I haven't been to any of them in some time and therefore can't critique their food for you, but I believe it's likely to be quite adequate for standard Cantonese items). I'm not sure whether Wing Shoon is big enough, but that's a good banquet place, which I also go to by myself or with a friend sometimes, particularly for their Soy Sauce Chicken, which is probably the best I've had in Manhattan (so if you end up there, see if they would make sure they make enough Soy Sauce Chicken so that they haven't run out by the time you arrive).
There are also Korean banquet places in Koreatown, but they'll cost you more than $30/person and may be too adventurous for some of the students.
I was surprised to read Arturo's as a suggestion. I wonder if they'd reserve for as many as 60. Very good pizza, though; classic New York ambiance; and good jazz up front by the bar (but not so easy to hear in the other rooms, and there are only a few tables in the same room as the bar and musicians). Definitely worth checking into.
I'll tell you what will work, though: If Arturo's just isn't large enough, Patsy's in East Harlem will have plenty of room. They have a big main dining room and an equally big if not bigger additional room. You'd have to take two subways and walk from 116th and Lexington to 1st Av. between 117th and 118th to get there, but again, the place has great old New York ambiance (though no live music, as far as I know). Toppings really aren't the thing there, though: It's all about the margherita, fresh mozzarella, and perhaps marinara pizzas. (The salad is OK but don't expect any luxury ingredients or super-fresh vine-ripened tomatoes, and I think I remember the garlic bread being very good.)
If you are interested in red-sauce Italian-American food, I had one good experience at John's of 12th St., and I feel sure they could accommodate that large a group, but others haven't had such good experiences, and they could strain your budget a bit (I think we paid $42/person, but we were drinking).
Make sure to ask every place whether they have a minimum per person for that large a group. Also, expect some places (including Congee Village) to require a deposit in advance. Good luck, and please let us know where you ended up and how it turned out.
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Another fantastic lunch at Jean-Georges yesterday. The foie gras brulee is truly to die for -- they were doing it with slow cooked strawberries. Also loved the corn ravioli dish (as well as the old standbys -- the tuna noodles, sea trout, halibut with chili foam, skate). Amazing! Couple of notes - the price has gone up a smidge. It is now $29 per person and $14.50 for each additional course (it was $28 and $14). Also, the desserts appeared a bit smaller and they were only offering one flavor of marshmallow and one macaroon per guest at the end (compared to 3 flavors of marshmallows (if memory serves) and three macaroons). Still an outstanding experience but even the J-Gs of the world must be feeling the effects of the recession.
I had lunch there recently with my girlfriend and brother. The corn ravioli are indeed delicious, and I found the meal very pleasant and fairly priced but it was for me a very good 2 1/2-star meal on a 4-star scale. I recommend lunch at Jean Georges but would caution people not to expect to be blown away, merely to have a very enjoyable time, with good service and excellent ingredients in every dish.
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There is still a Bar Veloce wine bar in the East Village, at 175 2nd Avenue, as well as one in Chelsea.
Veloce Pizzeria used to be Solex, a wine bar owned by the same person that owns the Bar Veloce wine bars.
Oh, you're right; it was Solex. But I believe it has a different name now. I didn't think it was Veloce. I'll check in a few minutes.
It is indeed Veloce. I went there late this afternoon and shared a carafe of very good house white wine and two salads with a friend. I'll definitely go back another time to try some of their pizza.
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Yes. I've walked past their closed store many times.