vivin

1) In order to address ratings getting old - There are rating systems for other products such as cars, stereos etc. that automatically eliminate a product from their standing if it has not been reviewed in a period of time. With stereos, it is typically 3 years. With cars, it is with each substantial overhaul - 3 or 4 years. A similar thing should apply to restaurants too, to a certain extent. Again, I might be in the minority here. This does not preclude, please note, a repeat star rating if the reviewer deems it. The re-review typically would result in reaffirmation (the bar for demotion is high). I can live with that much easier than rely upon a stale rating. Doesn't Michelin do this? 2) My own system is to look NOT ONLY at the level of stars but the change in star level. I have practiced this in Europe. I look for a high star level with a positive trend in stars. So a Michelin 2 star with aspirations for a third is better than a 3 star which has been around for a while. This happened to me at Guy Savoy in Paris. When I visited them with a 2 star rating, they showered so much attention on me that I was bowled over. Again, when they had their third star, they seemed to care a whole lot less.

I agree with you there.

I disagree. Whenever there are alternatives available, as there are in the restaurant industry, you have to consider what the restaurant charges in comparison to its peers. How can you judge a meal in vaccum. If you are ok comparing two restaurants, why are you averse to comparing it to a dollar number? I just do not understand how you are saying comparing the food to its dollar number should not be done. If the dollar number is high enough, should I not just hire the restaurant chef and have them cook for me at home. I pay to go to a restaurant because the cost of obtaining the meal (and ambience) at home is high compared to going to the restaurant. And the NYT considers price doesn't it? Take the case of opera. Many city dwellers think the Met opera is too expensive for what you get. Many of them go to the City opera. The city opera does not have the pedigree and does not get the starred names. Do you get a bigger bang for your buck? I think so. Does that mean I would give lesser stars to the Met vs. the city opera? I would give them equal number of stars (as Bruni gave Kittichai and Sri). Even forgetting the value issue, Shouldn't one expect the probability of getting a good experience at a 3/4 star restaurant to be higher than a 1/2 star restaurant? If not, what is the point of the stars? Just that a 3/4 star restaurant cooked better meals at some point in time in the past than a 1/2 star?

Fat Guy, I have read all your comments in this thread. I have thought about this issue a lot (and faced it with restaurants in my family). If a restaurant is a three or a four star restaurant (or has garnered a reputation that it is a superior place) and charges more than the average restaurant for its food - Do I have the right to expect an above average meal when I pay the higher price? I think so. I demand it. I do not always get it. This happens to a lot of older restaurants. Are they good restaurants? Yes. Can they blow your mind with good tasty food if they want to? Yes. Is there a decent chance that if you wander in you might experience a so-so meal. Yes (in my opinion). I am not talking about innovation here. (btw, I read the USC menu - it looks good. I am just afraid of going there anymore and paying those prices and being disappointed). If I pay a high price, I demand a certain quality of food (and service). I have experienced this a lot of places (including my own family's). Excellence is hard to achieve. Maintaining excellence year in and year out is much harder. I just feel that if someone is disappointed (in part due to hightened expectations) and says so, there is nothing wrong in it. Bruni's tone might put off some. Fair point. But the fact that GT is in transition means something needs fixing there. Does not mean you should avoid that restaurant. It usually means, as you rightly pointed out, that it is trying to get better. Usually a very good sign for patrons. I cut a lot of slack to restaurants (having grown up in the industry). I recently had an insect on my table at a high priced restaurant and they reappeared even after repeated efforts to get rid of it. Obviously a problem for this not will be named restaurant. It did not distract me from my excellent meal there. I politely let them know that they had a problem. I would however be a lot less forgiving if they did not try.

I have eaten both at Kittichai and Sri. I would not give Kittichai two stars. Only one. But if Kitti gets two, Sri gets two as well. The food, I agree, is that much better. If Sri can survive in Manhattan with the same prices and quality, it should be rated higher not lower - Bruni or no Bruni. It is interesting how much of a reverse snob you think Bruni is.

"I think he is absolutely right about calling attention to these kinds of places. But he didn't need to give them two stars." Disagree. One of the differences in NY dining is that places like Sri exist and thrive. Would you rate Kittichai (more formal) higher than Sri?

Fat Guy, Your comments are well taken. However, all you are saying is that the Times' critic should take the time to know more about the restaurant scene in New York than people who write and read egullet. Why does egullet exist? Forums and blogs like these exist because bigger institutions like NYT continue to lag behind in the speed of information dissemination that is possible now. Nathan's assertion that critics were never questioned before forums like egullet plays to this as well.

Nathan, there is evidence that the restaurants respect what is said here.

"...But he can't let well enough alone." I think that is the point. Why can't one criticize well established places if they have slipped? Why not? I have gotten shot down before for saying that Daniel has been resting on its laurels. Maybe negative comments about GT do not belong in an EMP review. However, that was his thought and I appreciate his putting it out there. "Two in 2007." Fair enough. I will try again if you say so. I respect your comments. That is partly why I read these boards.

When was the last time people had a great meal at Bouley, GT or USC? And yes, Bruni and the NYT are a business. Just as the restaurants they are reviewing. I can't believe I am defending Bruni. Just do not understand the criticism.

"But every time I left Eleven Madison Park, it was with at least one dish, and usually several, lingering in my thoughts and prompting me to rave to somebody the next day. That’s not the case with most restaurants, and that hasn’t been my experience in recent years at Gramercy Tavern or Union Square Cafe. They may have the more steadfast retinues of loyal suitors. But the crowns rest uneasily — and perhaps unjustly — on their heads." This reflects my own experiences/thoughts very closely.

Whatever Bruni's motivations/shortcomings might be, I have to agree with him on this one. One is likely to have a much better dining experience at the new EMP and The Modern than at Gramercy or USC. The latter two are resting on their laurels, in my opinion. Maybe I am new to the high end in New York (relatively) and do not remember when these places were at their peak. But I just don't get the incessant beating of the Gramercy/USC drum in their present form.

WD-50 Baby spring lamb with banana consomme. Simple yet perfect dish. The smell, taste and texture is filed away in my memory.

There used to be a bakery called "steinway bakery" or something like that in Astoria (Queens). Their blackforrest was the best I have had in the US. Don't know if it is still there.

I think Hemant Mathur (at Devi) is one of the better people manning a tandoor on the continent. However, I do not understand the fascination on this board with this restaurant. Apart from the tandoori dishes, the kitchen turns out mediocre fare. As for South Indian, Sarvanaas is a couple of levels above everyone else.

My point about Devi is the following. Devi tries to be different by using snacks and other dishes that are eaten at other times of the day or places and incorporates them as part of the meal. That might be creative in some sense. However, most of them do not go together. Moreover, Devi does not have expertise in making those snacks. So they came out quite mediocre. That takes away from the main courses that Devi does well. There is no sense in trying to be different for the sake of it, in my opinion.

I can not recommend Devi over Tabla. Tabla has some real innovation. Devi puts together a meal creatively out of traditional Indian fare but not beyond. Having said that, Tabla is usually crowded on weekends (at least when I went there last). Friday and Sat nights are avoidable if you want to experience Tabla at its best.

Celeste

Theresa, Thanks for your replies. I am not sure if you can answer this question. I had a braised pork shoulder there 3 months ago. "Pork Shoulder with Rose Petal Glassato" The memory of this dish still haunts me. I do not think this is a regular dish. Anyone know how I can get more? :-) Love Lup.

Interesting discussion. I agree that pasta dishes (non butter based ones) are one of the highlights of Babbo. >> has anyone really had a superlative Italian entree? at least in the U.S.? If you can consider this one Italian - I had a pork loin that had been braised in rose water at Lupa new years day that was the single best piece of meat I have had at Batali restaurants. Simply a great combination of satisfying hearty dish that had a sublime quality that tickled your brain as well. I have been to almost all the restaurants named in the thread and vote with my dollars - I have been to Babbo the most.

I have eaten at Babbo maybe 2 dozen times (going there early for a Sun night dinner is how I racked up the numbers). I was there a couple of wks ago after a year. The food remains excellent. There was one pasta dish that was so-so. I told them it was underwhelming and they took it back and replaced it with another for no extra charge. For the price, it remains one of the leaders in NYC. Is there better food to be had? Sure. But hard to beat at the prices Babbo charges. I think avoiding butter heavy pastas is key. Specials are always good.

I fail to see why people are getting so excited. I have been to Trader Joe's numerous times with other people who are big fans. They carry product that is not found in other grocery stores, I will grant you. And the quality is only fair given the prices. It should appeal to people who like whole foods. Much better quality available already in New York.

The category of over praised and, in my opinion, over rated is ruled by Danny Meyer offerings - esp USqCafe. Mesa Grill is also high on the list.