Explorer

Coop- I am sure that must have turned you off. His front staff isn't very smooth, you're correct. Did you have a reservation then? We were once in about 10 to 2, and we stayed til 3:30pm! Anyways- if you decide to go back there, let us know how they do for you.

Great. I think we both belong the Crocodile admirers club. I have been to his place at least 15 times, starting with when he was on Thurlow, and the first dish I had was the sole indeed which has been his signature. It came with 2 sauces at the time. (we're back there in Oct.)

Great report Johnathon on Crocodile. Actually, being regulars at his place, we also did the 2 hours in the kitchen with him and his staff last July. You have described it perfectly well; it was all calm and organized throughout a busy Saturday evening, then we had dinner later with Michel and his sous. Isn't Michel such a gracious and genuine host? Have you had game there? His elk, venisson, duck are just amazing. I love those sauces...but not for everyday!

What's a good Quebec cheese? (don't say Okra)

I use wesza's technique but with a single cup handheld plastic drip cone. (great for travelling) When pouring the water, I just pour a little- wait for the bubbles to burst, then keep on pouring til the cup is half-full, then I add water which has been returned to a boil while the drip was going on. In this manner, I get a semblance of a cafe Americano, ie. still with a stronger flavor (but less caffeine) than straight drip. And when I ran out of paper cones- guess what works as well? A good old paper towel, twisted as a cone (don't double it).

Hmmm....If Toronto was the asshole of the world, are you just passing through? And when I was living in Alberta after moving from Vancouver, when asked why doesn't Vancouver fall into the water, I used to respond "it's because Alberta sucks". Sorry fresco, but you asked for it.

How about Claudio Aprile who is now at Senses? (he was previoulsy at Zoom i believe when it first opened). And what happened to Christian who was at Patriot? Also, there was another chef I can't remember his name; he was at Senses on Bloor about 2 years ago; he had trained with Nobu. Does anyone know where he is now?

Speaking of excitment, the next biggest thing here in toronto since the opening of Bymark almost a year ago (big yawn) will probably be "Trattoria Vaticano". Chef Felice Vacca, of Sotto Sotto is going solo and opening on Bellair, between Cumberland and Yorkville, in the spot where Boa used to be. A big picture of his is on the outside saying "Opening as soon as possible". Renovations inside will probably mean an opening toward the end of Sept. I am guessing Roman inspired food, another celebrity hang-out, and a spot to be seen. I understand he'll be open for lunch too. Felice is also working on a new book "Felice & friends" (i.e. his celebrity friends), and is scheduled for more FoodTV.ca appearances. So, let's see if this one can stir up the pot a little in the big sleepy town...

Lesley- See what wine does to you? Yes, Hawksworth and Haas are both in Vancouver. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but was thinking of Canada as well, for a moment.

Wow- Winnipeg is waking up...this is a great post. I used to go there quarterly in the early 90's and some of these names were still there- Dubrovnik, Pasta la Vista, Amici. But seriously, what do you guys think of 529 Wellington? Is it just a pretty restaurant with a Wine Spectator list or do they serve some decent food?

Well...it's tough in Toronto, culinary-wise. There's no innovation, no new places with a statement, with a message that is consistent, with signature food that is to be followed. Susur may be the exception today, but I would argue that his food is more "gutsy" than innovative-so there are hits and misses. The guy isn't shy. Why is Toronto so so? It may not be from an absence of talent, but rather that the talent that's here decides to take another route, the easy way, as opposed to try to make a difference. For e.g. Standtlander goes up north doing his own thing; Didier Leroy does it in his own home; Greg Couillard (who had the most potential had it not been on those substances...snif snif) goes up north somewhere, Chris MacDonald caters to the conservative crowd, Jamie Kennedy packs it in and goes out of town, etc... So we can blame them for not staying in town, sobering up and opening world class places, OR we, Torontonians could take the blame for accepting and praising mediocrity. If customers don't complain, demand more or expect more, most chefs wouldn't be motivated to go to higher levels; it's just human nature. If more of us, especially those wordly jetsetters would impose the same standards on Toronto restaurants as we do when we travel to 3* places and other Top US destinations, then- perhaps some of these chefs would get the message. Having said that, I think that JOV Bistro's Steinberg is the most underrated chef in the city. He's not in the limelight doing pzzaz James Beard events or TV shows, but his food creations are exquisitely consistent and creative. And back west, David Hawksworth understands what it takes to be a top chef and he is working on it day by day with the utmost integrity. Desert-wise, my vote goes for Thomas Haas who is an up-and-coming desert chef that is bringing a 100% dose of European culinary standards into Canada.

Re: Eigensinn Farm; We're bad...but not stupid, so l am carrying this conversation on at this other thread that GordonCooks started, as it's becoming outside the real of Standtlander only. New topic. Has any one been to the Spring fest at Eigensinn farm that James Chiatto raved about? We were there 3 months prior and they were supposed to inform us about it; but guess what? we didn't receive any info, so it appears that they don't want the business.

jschyun- Correction on Thomas Haas. He doesn't own Senses or Diva. He is a consultant to Senses and they sell his chocolates, pastry and sorbets. With Diva, he's the Pastry Chef, so he creates the deserts and they assemble them last minute when you order them at Diva. I agree with you that his chocolates are outstanding; nothing to compare with Daniel's. Have you tried Haas' signature chocolates, the ones with the fruit plaquette on top? These are the most divine of them all. See his web site if you want some shipped to you: Thomas Haas Web Site

If you'd read the major article by James Chiatto about Stadtlander in the current issue of Toronto Life, you'd get from the author that the guy is a food genious that walks on air, is a food magician, an acrobat of the senses, a miracle maker, a great chef, a movie producer, a philosopher, a writer, all-in-one, etc...Quote: "On special occasions at Eigensinn Farm, world-renowned chef Michael Stadtländer is creating a kind of experiential theatre of the senses...." The above article is one of the reasons why there's still some magic about going there. With my respects to Mr. Chiatto, the article was just too much. For me, the trip there was an experience, an event, an experiment, a night we enjoyed, but that we would not repeat again. Yes, there were a lot of good things about it, but there were enough bad things about it that aren't needed. There are far too many other places out there where the food is magical too without flaws. Part of the reason his show continues is that people keep going there on repeat visits, perhaps not knowing what else is available, while others continue to write about him and compromising their integrity at the same time. I think that place and his show are washed-up, honestly. I know it's tough to reach the top like he has, but it's even tougher to "stay" there. That's what makes the difference between a 3* place that keeps their stars for 30 years and other places that get them and then ???. At Eigensinn Farm, they set the terms of the engagement according to their own rules that are convenient to them; i.e., not always open, open 3 nights/week, they don't always return phone calls, they have a lousy answering machine, they charge whatever they want, they innovate only if they want to. It's possible that the couple is tired over there. It shows. The question is "Was influencial", not "IS" right now. In the mid-80's and early 90's, he was influencial for Ontario mostly and to some extent the rest of Canada. Comparing him to Adria today is like comparing something current to something passe. It doesn't compute.

Sinclair- The reason I was struck by your comment is that a mousse cake (not chocolate) should be eaten chilled or cool NOT at room temperature. Chocolate cakes or chocolates taste in general best at room temperature. Sorry that your judgement got you in trouble. Lesley- On second thoughts, don't you think that one of the logical requirements for a "world class" pastry shops is that it be driven by a pastry chef or owner. This is why for e.g. a place like Senses wouldn't qualify. And the same should apply to ohers. Michael- I was just kidding a little about the level of difficulty. I didn't attend Susur's event because my last experience at this place left a sour taste in my mouth.

We were at Payard recently, and spent a good hour savoring several deserts and goodies. He definitely seems to have a high volume operation, bordering on service anarchy as Lesley hinted. There were some very creative pieces that I had not seen before, perhaps one of out of six failed to impress us, but in the US market, I would say that operation would rank highly. How come nobody's saying anything about Torres? Michael- Congratulations on the Bon Appetit feature. By the way, really- that chocolate caramel tartlet looks great, but- how many amateurs at home would really make it? It was probably the most complicated recipe of them all. I will choose driving to Detroit rather than making it at home. My wife jumped on Davis Guas's cheesecake recipe by saying "I found an easy cheesecake recipe- I am gonna make it right now". Not that we don't appreciate challenges, but I am curious as to how you decide or they decide what recipes to feature? Question to the professionals: At what volume point does it become extremely difficult for a patisserie to maintain the "artisan style" of pasty making? Since we are on that same topic, went to Rahier in Toronto today and had a bunch of several things ... not that I was a big fan previously- but there's something going downhill over there. Sinclair, are you sure the room temperature wasn't more than room temperature? Which Senses was it? Tor or Vcr? Note that Thomas Haas is in Vancouver only. His awards so far are not too shabby, and I think he's up and coming.

After reading the last 2 posts, I have to jump in as well. We were at Eiginsinn Farm about 6 months ago. Although we were disillusioned with certain dishes, the whole experience was very unique. I couldn't agree more. There were some hits and misses if you want me to be picky about each one of them. There were some amazing combinations of flavors such as something like apple cider sauce in a vegetable risotto that included blue potatoes and I can't remember exactly what else. But, the foie gras was botched up. The duck was so so; and the lobster was not well cooked on one of the plates. And overall, not one dish came out "hot" out of the kitchen. They were all barely lukewarm. The kitchen is so close to the dining room, there is no excuse for that, especially not with the soup (which I recall was an excellent consomme with 2 raviolis in it). He did come out and talked with us at great length in a very friendly manner. It was a very snowy evening; the man even went outside and cleaned the snow on my car, as I had forgotten my snow brush. I think part of it was that he wanted to go outside after being in the kitchen for so long perhaps. Anyways, some of the combinations were the most creative I have ever seen, but it is an entirely different experience than TK or a 3* in Paris. The ambiance does get you transported somehow. And it's quite something to be able to bring 3-4 wines with you without worrying about corkage fees. Overall, my own take on this is that they are getting ready to slow it down to the point of almost retiring. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened anytime soon. So, if you haven't made the pilgrimage to Singhampton, well...

Correction jschyun on Senses and Thomas Haas. He doesn't own it; he's a consultant for them, and they sell his pastries in the Vancouver store. The selection is limited because he has a small operation there and he also does work for Diva and also makes/sells his own chocolates via his web site. As an aside, I did enjoy Dalloyau and LeNotre and will definitely try the others mentioned in Paris. Katie- Isn't the Sacher such a soothing and pristine experience? Although I was there many years ago, I almost remember it like yesterday.

Thanks Degustation for the link. I just called the organizers, and the Eigensinn Farm event is already sold out because it's set-up for only 16 guests.

How about "529 Wellington", in case you haven't heard of it. They have probably the best wine list in Winnipeg, about 500 different wines. It's mostly a high-end steak house, but they serve seafood as well, and their quality is very consistent.

We were there 6 months ago aprox., and they said they would be closed for a couple of months at least to shoot that special film which he has accepting investors for. There's a special event in Sept. at the farm for $200 something pp. Sorry, can't remember the specific, but it is advertised in the current issue of Toronto Life, in the section where they review restaurants.

via Allegro if you're in the Etobicoke region. it's only 20 mins from downtown really on the QEW.

Agree with others re: blue water and fortes. blue water was such a disastrous experience for us on service, but you can always lower your expectations and go for the raw stuff. The chef at Fortes was bragging that he does lots of turnover on oysters and they know some of their suppliers pretty well. Email him if you want something really special. He hinted that he's open to it. There is a variety of scallops that comes from Northern BC (sorry I forgot the exact location). C restaurant has them on their menu; Robert Clark does a great job with it. C has a taster's box, mostly of raw stuff. Although they have been inconsistent lately, call ahead.

I had a similar dilemma a few weeks ago, and we went to Sun Sui Wah on Main. The Peking duck was as good as it gets, but the rest was So So (pun intended). The problem I found is that if you're not Chinese or Asian, they'll try to steer you towards items which they believe we like, and less of the more original exotic meals they enjoy, but sometimes the advice doesn't work. Specifically, I wanted the special veggies with some mushrooms, the maitre quickly suggested substituting another type of mushroom as he thought we wouldn't like the original ones. As it turned out, they were too "slimey" and awful. PinkPearl- I've always enjoyed, but again, they have a few unknown, not on the menu items for regulars that call ahead. One time, I was lucky enough to be with somebody close to the owner, and we got some very interesting seafood including jumbo scallops and jumbo oysters for e.g. that were really excellent.

Malachi- since you are a coffee freak, have you tried coffee at 5Senses? I was there a couple of weeks ago, and they served me the best coffee I have had in a long time. I didn't even ask what it was and how it was grinded. But you could check it out, on top of that it's an excuse to savor the wonderful Thomas Haas pastries there. Go in the morning as they are fresh and taste much better.