yvonne johnson

I'd like to avoid Tavern on Jane for eating (I might puke into Wilfrid's beret. I'll keep mine clean, thanks). Me and Lurker went there a few months back and the food wasn't up to much. Drinking there would be fine, though it is quite a small place. Oh, and by the way, I'm Eskimo and a man.

Absolutely, no photos. In total agreement with Liza. No photos plastered on the internet of us crawlers looking refreshed (read: a bitty plastered).

We've got a good group going. Six to ten people, by my count: B Edulis, Liza, macrosan, Wilfrid, me and Lurker. Maybes: mr & mrs tommy and stefanyb & partner. If we're going to go with berets (and I see stefanyb's sartorial preference extends to them too), I will also wear one. Black of course, with a Lenin badge pinned to it. Wilfrid, have you found that piece of paper on our route? Do you think it would be a good idea for us go in direction of East Village? What about we settle for 7PM? On Friday 22 --Note everyone, the egullet sense of time is still out of whack. Today is 20 Feb but here it says 19th. At Kettle of Fish, 59 Christopher St, 212/414-2278.

There may be a lot of twaddle written about absinthe. One night a friend produced a labelless bottle, and said the liquid was the genuine article. A shot with some water didn't produce any mental changes in me. I was kind of disappointed. I don't know how authoritative this web site is, but has lots of info. http://www.sepulchritude.com/chapelperilou...e/absinthe.html

It could've been worse. Sitting by yourself wondering where the hell everyone else was. What a kettle of fish that would have been. I blame the site myself. I'm not good with numbers in the first place, but the eGulllet calendar and clock muddle me crazy. Today is yesterday, and tonight is last night, tomorrow is two days hence.

I’ve not made shortbread in years, so I’ve gone and consulted books by Jane Grigson and Sue Lawrence. Both suggest a slightly hotter oven (325F) than you are using. Both also give weight measurement rather than by cup. Lawrence: 4oz salted butter 2oz caster sugar 6oz plain flour 2oz semolina (Flour and semolina worked in together) Lawrence warns against overworking the mixture. Simply knead into a ball and shape as you wish. She also says she never uses rolling pin, preferring the use of her hands, and neither suggests cooling mixture in fridge before baking. Good luck!

I think the Kettle of Fish, Friday night, February 22 is a magnificant idea, and those who do not..well...need to sumbmit their DNA to the Genome Project for analysis, because they are obviously lacking that "let's go down the pub gene". Me and Lurker will be there. I did have one suggestion though and that's to maybe go for the earlier time--6.30ish so that mr and mrs tommy can attend if they are able. But here endeth the concessions. We pub crawlers have backbones and are resolute. As for the site crashing, I was thinking same. It's gone all dark in here. Maybe in an emergency we should meet on the NYTimes Dining Out Forum--ho,ho http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?13@@.f065b05 I'll messenger my cell phone to all who say they are attending.

The London lot have done it. The NJ and Pacific North West lots have done it. Here we are in this city--that some (misguided souls) claim is the gastronomic capital of the world--and we’ve not yet done it. Have a regional dinner that’s what. Mr. Shaw, what about it? We demand a NY dinner. Given the palaver involved in getting a simple NY pub-crawl going--what is it with New Yorkers? Anyway…. May I propose a dinner on February 15, 2005, 9PM. Yes, three years hence. Given the generous notice, just maybe, us NY eGulletarians might be able to plan a dinner. Already I hear...."Can we make it Feb 16, 2005"? "An earlier sitting would suit".

I knew it! Now it’s plain to me the inefficient United Nations could’ve organized a conference for 365 nations in the time we’re taking. To include Mr and Mrs Tommy, can we kick off earlier then, around 6PM on Feb 22? Good, Liza, it would be nice to meet you if you can make it. I predict Macrosan will say 6PM is too early! What do in this city for a decent pub session? You have a mental break down settling on a date. No much wonder the psychotherapy business is so big here. As for appearances, my other half Glyn (name is Welsh but he’s English) is 6ft tall, and is, er, sturdy, and grey. I will be wearing a black hat (along with my long black cloak and dagger).

Just to clarify Kettle of Fish is at 59 Christopher St (not 57 as Wilfrid says.......philosophers, what can I say? I can't complain, he got this going for sure) bewteen 7th Ave & Greenwich Ave. Oh, great. Arrows. Now, as for eating beforehand, macrosan, I never do immediately before a crawl. I may have a sandwich for lunch, but it's UK custom to go 'uneaten' (as per Nancy Reagan, "just say no!" http://home2.planetinternet.be/verjans....gan.htm oh dear ) on these things, at least to start. I hate the bloated feeling of big meal then pub. There is a half-way measure that Poles use. Down a couple of tablespoons of oil before a crawl if one is completely empty. I learned this trick from a Polish psycho-analyst. Best advice she gave me. (if you are under 18, get back to bed, and no you can't sue me.) Back to food. Why not include in the plan a food joint? Depending on numbers: Corner Bistro/Viceroy/Molly's? Just in case the need for solid food is called for? Wilfrid: Are you happy working on the ports of call?

I liked Blue Hill on first visit, but my minor disappointment was that I found the food (in main course dishes) sweet. On second visit, my chicken dish was over the top sweet (way too much fruit). Craft and CB I found superior not only b/c the food was less sweet, but because the food was more flavorful. The only other one on your list that I've been to is Gramercy Tavern. Again C and CB I found superior. I've gone to GTavern twice and twice I thought the food was unadventurous, tasteless and the service overbearing. I happen to like rich sauces and even though C and CB don't say they go in for them, the sauces are richer at the two places in comparison to GT. I don't know if I've added anything substantial. But I find C and CB more substantial and satisfying than the other places above.

OK, Wilfrid, so Friday 22 Feb it is. Big note: We'd better not arrange this pub session using the board's calendar or dates. Unless I'm living in a different century my last post was written last night, the 11th Feb. For me, today is the 12th. I did some detective work on way home. Lion’s Head/Monkey’s Paw is now “Kettle of Fish”, 59 Christopher St, 212/414-2278. (That’s funny, a coule of days ago I phoned the tel # listed in our old Zicklin’s Bar Guide for Lion’s Head and got the home # for someone). Anyway, very importantly, Kettle of Fish has dart boards and I love darts. I’m bringing my own Thurston darts to this event incase there are any others willing to play. (Go on, humor me.) Haven’t played in a few years, but let we warn you that at a pivotal stage of a match, I got a bull’s eye on my last throw to win a big prize (I think it amounted to free pork pies all round—nevertheless, it was the skill involved)for my Newham team, in the NALGO (National Assoc of Local Government Officers) South London final. So how many so far? Macrosan,g.johnson (lurker, my other half. He did register with egullet at some point, so we’ll let him join in), Tommy (?), Wilfrid, myself. So who else is coming? 8PM sounds good at the Kettle of Fish (known in Village still as the Lion’s Head). I think the Kettle of Fish would be a good starting off point.

You mean I could've come home and learned you'd all gone out without yours truly What about Thursday or Friday this week then? Generally, till mid-March, Mon,Tues and Weds are not that good for me. I'm happy to go anywhere that's suggested and would quite like a clearly (even vaguely) delineated crawl.

Sorry, I went out (not drinking), and just got in. I know I argued against locked threads before, but now we've got 2 threads. Not bad idea, as we needed an "announcement" bar crawl one. So I'll put in my two cents on day on other one.

Christopher: Thanks for your comments. I’m not sure I’ve made my point clearly enough, and now that the upgrade deleted the prices in my earlier post, let me restate my point. If I understand your post correctly, the mark-up on wines at CBar is less than at comparable restaurants. That is good, but does not deal with my quibble (and overall I liked CB a lot, so much so we’re taking friends there this w/end). My complaint is that the costs of the wines at CB are out of proportion relative to the costs of the main courses. Maybe prices will go up here after the opening period, but at present mains cost around $15. And there isn’t a cabernet sauvignon for under $57. In addition, often when I eat a lot of offal (as I did at CB the other night), I like a cognac as a digestif. The cheapest was $17. That cost more than my main course! Steve Plotnicki: I don’t follow the argument that “charcuterie is a 1 star, and not 3 star item”. The first prong of your argument is that there are lousy “charcuterie”on the market, therefore all charcuterie is tarred with this brush. Because Cadbury’s make instant potatoes, all potato dishes are 1 star items? The second prong of your argument is related to the specialized skills needed to cook a dish and you say making charcuterie requires fewer skills than Sautéed Foie Gras atop Stewed Lentils. But making sautéed foie is very easy. Or is it the lentils that’s hard Paralleling your argument on the superiority of French cuisine over all others, is the point that the more expensive a dish is the more deserving it is? I'm puzzled.

Christopher: Thanks for your comments. I’m not sure I’ve made my point clearly enough, and now that the upgrade deleted the prices in my earlier post, let me restate my point. If I understand your post correctly, the mark-up on wines at CBar is less than at comparable restaurants. That is good, but does not deal with my quibble (and overall I liked CB a lot, so much so we’re taking friends there this w/end). My complaint is that the costs of the wines at CB are out of proportion relative to the costs of the main courses. Maybe prices will go up here after the opening period, but at present mains cost around $15. And there isn’t a cabernet sauvignon for under $57. In addition, often when I eat a lot of offal (as I did at CB the other night), I like a cognac as a digestif. The cheapest was $17. That cost more than my main course! Steve Plotnicki: I don’t follow the argument that “charcuterie is a 1 star, and not 3 star item”. The first prong of your argument is that there are lousy “charcuterie”on the market, therefore all charcuterie is tarred with this brush. Because Cadbury’s make instant potatoes, all potato dishes are 1 star items? The second prong of your argument is related to the specialized skills needed to cook a dish and you say making charcuterie requires fewer skills than Sautéed Foie Gras atop Stewed Lentils. But making sautéed foie is very easy. Or is it the lentils that’s hard Paralleling your argument on the superiority of French cuisine over all others, is the point that the more expensive a dish is the more deserving it is? I'm puzzled.

Stellabella, thanks for the tip which I've made a note of. I'm trying to pin down the NY posters down on a day for a pub session. Arranging a private audience with the Pope would be easier. Speak about speaking about it rather than just going down the pub. Now it's all too clear to me why the NY board hasn't had a regional dinner. I'm taking this to Mr Shaw immediately.

At least we’ve got the ball rolling. But where are all the eGulletarians who like a pint or two? I think Wilfrid is in Spain at the mo, but maybe we need to agree on a day. Tommy, are you favoring weekday b/c you live in NJ, but work in NY? Week nights are ok in general for me. You suggest a Thursday. Thursday 14th or 21st March is fine for me. What about Fridays? Tommy asks: A crawl or stay in one spot? Questions, questions. We can decide that on the day maybe.

OK, you're on Tommy. Now where and when is this eGullet bar session going to be? I think we posters will have to arrange this without the help of our esteemed moderator. The London crowd have the able Lynes help arrange a dinner, the NJ group have J and R Perlow to host a banquet in Newark. Mr. Shaw has arranged diddly squat for us NY egulletarians. And in these important matters we need someone who is dead dependable (we still await the champagne guidelines for heaven’s sake). So, when? Saturday 16th March any good? I see that several of you suggest going to some pubs at off hours, but it might be unwise to start drinking in the AM –not that that’s out of the question. We could start in the afternoon/very early evening? I imagine most people favor week-end. However, I'm off work the week of March 18, so I’d go out any week-day night that week. What about we start off in the Village, say, the former Lion's Head/Monkey's Paw/now something else (I’ll check the new name this weekend) at 59 Christopher's Street (b/w 7th Ave and Greenwich Aves--it's good for the subway). If this is the place where Jessica Lange waited tables, then it's good enough for me. (Wilfrid, I was a semi-regular at the C&H between 1980 and 1988. For some reason our chum Booooooooth always got the table at the right hand door (facing the bar). We got there 5PM, or was opening time 5.30PM in those days, and stayed there most of the night, then stumbled out to go to Jimmy’s for Greek food. What a fine time)

Do you think we might have enough here for a decent pub crawl? I favor pubs that are within staggering distance of home so I'll be trying the downtown places first. Thanks for reminding me of the Viceroy, Ruby. I keep saying I'm going to try it. As for the Coach & Horses, Wilfrid, many a night I've spent in there. I may've recounted this elsewhere, but what the heck. As was usual (as always, more like), Jeffrey Bernard was sitting at the bar. My boyfriend (now husband) ordered a pint for himself and a G&T for me. Bernard to boyfriend: "For god's sake man, do the right thing. Get her a double". People said he had a mean streak. I will always remember him very fondly.

Tommy suggested on the UK board that there might be a decent pub/bar in town. Well, I've yet to find it. Please advise. Here's where I've tried: Temple Bar, 330 Lafayette (b/w Bleecker & E houston). This comes close to a pub, but, despite the near pitch darkness it's starting to look a little worn. At the same time, it's a bit too sedate. You don't get the feeling you can chat to your neighbor as one can in a British pub. Cedar Tavern: University Pl (b/w 11 & 12). Pub-y in many respects, lovely old wooden bar, but I never feel comfortable here, upstairs or down. What is it? Those fake art deco lights? Leaves me cold. McSorley's: Maybe I should give it another go. Smelled of vomit the last time I was there. Corner Bistro: Close to my idea of a pub. Friendly, dowdy, rough and ready. Un-named bar on Greenwich Ave (around 10th). A dive. I like it. DBA? on 1st. Decent selction of beers. Loud. It has a hip factor that exceeds its merits. Chumley's, Pete's and Old Town : Having jogged my memory, I don't know why I haven't gone more. White Horse: so, so I like gay bars: Splash, Crowbar (or is it sledgehammer) in Chelsea Shark Bar, Amsterdam Ave. This used to be a terrific place, but the latest incarnation was horrid. Oh, the ones gone (or at least when I last looked): Village Idiot and Downtown Beruit. Hotel bars: I quite like the Oak Bar at the Plaza (not to be confused with the Oak ROOM. The Oak Room is the restaurant of little prestige at the Plaza) Mark Hotel: Cozy little bar, but the drinks are weak. Carlyle: smokey, dark, and dull. Ditto: Regency Brooklyn: Juniors. Folk rave about the cheesecake. Rightly so, but the bar serves a very mean bloody mary. Rocket fuel. If this was about UK pubs the beer would be important. Maybe that's what's missing. A decent pint.

Tommy: stellabella's post makes me drool with envy. I'll start something on the NY board and I eagerly await your suggestions.

Wilfrid, My eyesight is bad. I posted twice. But is this a first on eGullet? You've posted the same thing three times. You've taken seeing double to new heights. How do you do it? Seeing triple that is.

Steve Plotnicki: I took (with permission) my Sunday menu home. It's yellow paper with black type and is easy to read, but they may print them daily using different paper. On the "concept", I agree with you. But I haven't been given the lecture you describe. I may have cut our waiter short at Craft when he asked if we'd been there before and I got feeling he had something to say, I replied, "No, but I understand the point". I've been very happy with the service at C and CB. The waiter at C was a true pro (anything but oleaginous). I also agree with you on the a la carte. Once you add the sides, the meal gets expensive. I found my main course large, despite the small plate that you describe. I didn't find it dark on Sunday, but I guess that's subject to change. As I mentioned, our major gripe was the costly wines and spirits.

Steve Plotnicki: I took (with permission) my Sunday menu home. It's yellow paper with black type and is easy to read, but they may print them daily using different paper. On the "concept", I agree with you. But I haven't been given the lecture you describe. I may have cut our waiter short at Craft when he asked if we'd been there before and I got feeling he had something to say, I replied, "No, but I understand the point". I've been very happy with the service at C and CB. The waiter at C was a true pro (anything but oleaginous). I also agree with you on the a la carte. Once you add the sides, the meal gets expensive. I found my main course large, despite the small plate that you describe. I didn't find it dark on Sunday, but I guess that's subject to change. As I mentioned, our major gripe was the costly wines and spirits.