Scott

agree 100%

NZ SB's are not intended to age, yes some people may enjoy a little development, but they are primary fruited wines for the near term. the grapes for Isabel SB were formerly sold entirely on contract to Cloudy Bay, and once the contract expired these guys went on the own. I like it's lean, green pea pod profile, rather than some that are a little too ripe for me.

I'm not convinced, I think too much forgiveness is bandied about for this wine. I had a couple of bottles this year, both the same, very hard, lean tannic structures. Impeccably stored. I don't think they will resolve, the fruit is not that ripe or full IMO, to combat the drying tannins over the long haul. It's about as resolved as it's going to get I think, and that isn't all that impressive. not bad of course, but disappointing overall.

Bond Villain? maybe not, but ready this made me wonder if Geoffrey Moore was somehow involved

Landmark are very good, damaris/lorenzo perhaps? Vine cliff are favourites of mine, grapefuit and a restrained richness. when someone says buttery, it's hard to know precisely what they mean - the distinction is one thing, but what they call buttery is another. Do they just like oak and plenty of malo for a nutty, creaminess; or just the way old style chardonnay tastes. old style, think Phelps or even Mondavi.

I had a plate of scallop tartare here, which was awful. a large pile of basically flavourless, cerviche of scallop. the roast chicken was good, and comforting. not sure about it, though I don't know if they ever claimed any 3* provenance.

we stayed at the holiday inn st germain des pres. I stayed there about a month ago, nice tidy place, very friendly staff and about 20 yards from St Placide Metro.

Bravo!

Another thing I forgot to mention, which I think is fairly little known, is about those small boutique producers you're caring, loving and gouging restauranteur happened across. These places are often offered this wine, to increase visibility. I make a few hundred cases, I can never satisfy demand, but if I can maximise the amount of people who see it by placing it strategically in certain restaurants. When I worked retail, one importer of some super US wines wouldn't let us have some things because they were only designated for the on trade. He hasn't worked hard to find this, it's probably landed in his lap. Note to self, must stop ranting

I am astonished by how 'apologetic' the tone is on some restaurant markups. there are many arguments put forward, but few really hold up. 1. I have carefully chosen the wine list. A) no you haven't, in all likelihood you have a few big ticket items, and you have had a rep help you out. 2. I have to fund the huge cellar? A) rubbish. who asked you to fill it with a lot of trophy wines that people won't actually buy. Who says it has to be that big? what's the real selection like? A) Funding? is this the same funding that retailer doesn't have to make? oh wait, they have to do it too, and markups are often rated against the retail price. The retailer has to pay for his stock holding too. And if the stock is too highly priced, he has to discount it to move it. 3. the glassware, washing, preparation and ceremony on opening etc. A) certainly glassware is an expense, but how many places have lousy hardware? don't claim it as an expense if you don't ante up. A) Washing etc. Either you have dish pigs already or more likely you have a machine, they're not that expensive. A) ceremony of presentation, candle decanting etc. how necessary is that? Isn't it just a form of artifice to justify the pricing, not the other way round. How many of them need to do this? I haven't ordered too many 1959's recently, so otherwise you're just decanting for air - how hard is that. It comes down to this, many places use the wine list as the driver for their profitability. Is that right? I don't happen to think so, get your business model right, charge properly and let joe public make his call. I know for a fact that at Restaurant Gordon Ramsay in London, the team have a morning meeting during which they look over the evenings booking sheet, and try to identify known punters they can hawk the stupidly expensive stuff to. I am led to believe this happens elsewhere also. It's a common view in the UK to break even on food, and get your profit from the booze. As someone with a keen interest in the booze, this is disappointing.

but then there's the argument about how restaurants spend gobs money and time making sure the wines they select will compliment the food. those restaurants, of course, are the minority, but that won't stop people from trying to use the argument. Tommy, you're right, this is a common argument. That it is rarely true doesn't stop them claiming to have done so.

Not being funny, but why is it that it appears to me, to only be Americans who are concerned by the dress code of everyone else around them. is it a cultural thing, I would never presume to pass comment on the satorial standards of my fellow diners. none of my damned business me thinks.

Try Roussilion - a great little restaurant not far from pimlico/victoria.

yeah it can. don't forget that St John is a polarising restaurant to some it's the ants' pants, and to others the emperors new clothes.

WHAT ??????? no pictures of Karli

I hear what you're saying, but I think the difference between wine markups and food markups, for want of a better term, is the value added component is added in the kitchen. the same cannot be said for the wine markups, which are a poor excuse for not pricing your food properly. i.e. I need to make up the GP or average spend on the beverage because I am not getting it on the food. as for my views on the subject at large, see my moto below also I think there is a difference between whether a wine is drunk with food and whether it can't be drunk with food. choose what you will, a wine that cannot match food in general is a very poor example. And... I grew up in one of the most guilty wine producing areas in the world for making wines that cannot accompany food!

Gavin, what disappointed you? the wines on offer, the prices, names you didn't know? Given the style of restaurant, I thought the list perfectly adequate, and the markups very fair.

Disagree Gavin, the wine list is simple, straightforward and shortish, but it's not awful. Had a perfectly respectable 97 Girardin Pommard Rugiens 2 weeks ago, and it was a perfect luncheon wine. with good value Coche Dury and a lovely 2000 Roulot Mon Plaisir Meursault, they do have some interesting items. Food was cracking!

Beaujolais & Beer. Nothing with any tannin.

I really enjoyed an 8 course meal here 2 weeks ago, my only thoughts were that the cooking was excellent, but still perhaps not up to the ambition of the setting.

What is certain, is that many places do not taste the wine in front of you. Often this will happen as they prepare the bottle, opening it, maybe decanting etc. of course this doesn;t happen everywhere, but perhaps more often that observed. when they present the bottle to you, they are not asking if you like it, but if you agree it is good condition and is what you ordered. I was actually at Restaurant Petrus the night of the Barclay's bankers wine spree, and even that night the sommeliers tried every bottle before it was brought to the table.

Walt, I don't really know what to say to this very individual opinion, other than that I am somewhat dumbfounded by your attempt to debunk things I don't get the feeling you fully grasp. Your comments about terroir are curious. No one said winemaking is magical, in fact it's quite the opposite - highly scientific and technical. If it were some nebullous, high falutin' idea I could agree with you much more easily. but I don't. These wines are finished products, blending occurs well before this time. If Gallo or charles shaw thought blending the 2 wines would help, they would have. But let's not head down that road, it gets into too much 2nd hand presumption. Perhaps it's easier if I explain it this way: a finished wine - particularly at this level, has had the tannin, sugar, and acid adjusted, often various sulphites are added, maybe it will also be flash pasteurised to meet a certain technical levels of specification and ensuring basic balance and stability. this is already done, you put 2 wines together and almost certainly the balance of the wine will be wrong. last I checked I didn't enjoy unbalanced wines a great deal.

Craig, I think you hit the nail on the head there, they were no more sommeliers than I am Joel Robuchon. though I do a mean cheese on toast

Curiously enough Moby, one of our party was a leading surgeon who operated on Andre Terrail's Prostate over 30 years ago, wonder if Claude would have snubbed us had he known that! I think it was andre, it was certainly Claude's father, as he was a guest of the restaurant soon after, and doesn't remember too much about it! so he wanted to go back when he found out we were going. He couldn't understand why they were being so rude!

Hi Michael, I think in this case, you would be wasting 2 good bottles of wine. You might have heard of masterclasses/tasting sessions with champagne where the participants take the base wines and attempt to blend up their own NV's. It's a lot of fun, but the one of the main purposes is really to show you how crap you are at it, and to leave it the experts. And this is with base wine, not a finished product as some have suggested. If a white wine is unpleasant, you can add some soda water for a spritzer, if a red is a bit rough - hold your nose and guzzle!