Scott

utterly diabolical. worst of all, I don't think it's that well chosen. they have a 1990 courcel Pommard 'Les Rugiens' for £175. not only is this very expensive, but I have a case in my cellar, and it's not very good. Camuzet 01 bourgogne rouge for £40 *shakes finger* naughty. anything of lower value only comes from SW france. I think they could try harder. though they are not as bad as nahm, who should hide their face in shame - 1990 Mosswood cabernet £465. I bought some in australia recently (where theirs came from no doubt) for £30.

Went to sketch for lunch (lecture room) about a week and half ago. you know what? I really enjoyed it, and found my observations somewhat at odds with what I had come to expect. The room is a little gaudy, but the tables were so far apart that I still felt like I had been appointed New Labour's gluttony Czar. Service was friendly and relaxed, though I suspect they were actually dressed up plate carriers. The wine list actually had some bargains!! plus it's cheaper and better value than Hakkasan or Aikens. I know I am shocked too. recommend Joblot 2001 Givry Servoinnes at £44. lovely stuff. the mas daumas gassac blanc good, but slightly surprised the sommelier didn't know the blend. Food: We have the lunch menu £35, so many courses it's hard to fault their generousity. I didn't actually like too many of them, some juts had muddly, unclear flavours. A little too much middle eastern influence for me. The mains were spectacular, dover sole and lamg shoulder - stunning food. the procession of all the bits and pieces made for a fun dining experience, but the food in general was little below expectations. We ordered some cheese for 2, and the waiter politely asked us if we knew what we were ordering and all that. I appreciated this. £28 for 4 pieces of cheese - how dare they! I'll tell you how, it was the best cheese I have ever had. the comte was sooo nutty and complex, soft but toothsome. bravo. the roquefort was creamier than, than, than... never mind summary: setting kinda cool service easy and helpful Food: small bits and pieces sucked ass, whilst the mains and cheese historic wine: good value bill: pretty fair really. can't see me going back though, there is a little theme park element that I am not sure of.

does anyone know if the WI has a lunch menu at all? weekdays or weekends? just wondering if there is a more economical way to sample the surrounds.

Really? you must very lucky then. A good friend of mine works for a search engine consultancy, and the odds for coming up as often you do without specialist help are very long. very lucky indeed.

Andy, I'd go on that basis, but don't tell me spend per head is an average £100 at Racine. that's just a lie (Henry, not you ).

Gav, I'm sorry no you can't.

Dan, suggest you read, if not already, Harpers. you are in danger of believing the hype. you will find that Australia in particular is very poor shape indeed at the moment. they have almost no foothold in he premium sector, and they dominate the supermarkets where their returns are often less than 1%. They control a sector of the market that no one wants - the unprofitable high volume, no margin. this very fact is what has lead to the recent round of mergers with US companies that have established US distribution channels. The US market will pay premium prices, but the 3 tier system means that they can't get their product to market. So they joined forces where possible. The problems in the UK have not yet been resolved and some don't think they will be for some time. A good example of why you shouldn't get too carried away by the OZ selling more by volume than franch example is this: Supermkt: go ahead pull your line, what are you going to do with 500,000 cases oz winemkr: but we were working together to build share, I need to increase margin S: pity about that, but it's not worked out how we thought. OZ: what does that mean? S: it means you keep selling to me for 2.50 gbp whole sale per bottle, and I'll keep selling it at 3.69 to the consumer. I make money, you don't. Oz: what if I don't want to. S: well there are plenty of chilean, south african etc producers who will sell their wine at that price. besides what are you going to do with all that production you increased 10 fold at my say so? Oz: but my wines are better S: the consumer doesn't give a toss, he will buy whatever I put on the shelf at 3.69 - and does. end of. does that sound like a force to be reckoned with? slightly simplified but this is what is happening today. I will repeat again 70% of all australian wine is sold on a discount promotion, and the average price of all bottles sold in the UK last year was 3.69 This will change with the smaller importing companies targetting independents, who are slowly building value added boutique brands. slowly being the word. At the moment, European wines are still the bread and butter of the UK wine trade. Ps. I am an Australian who lived for over 25 yrs in one of the major wine producing regions.

Scott, I'm not arguing, I'm simply making a quantifiable observation. I'm now reading the WSET advanced certificate course text and reviewing their mock exams, and they are without question heavily oriented toward old-world and especially French wine. I've also been talking with F+B friends here that have done WSET courses, who have advised me of the same. I don't think this is a bad thing, it's just that I'm equally interested in learning about New World wine, so the object of my post was to find out if the ISG courses differed in this regard. It appears I may have upset you somehow, if so my apologies. 'T', thanks kindly for your response, you've answered my question. Dave, I made my point in my first post, you are perhaps looking at the wrong course, though what precisely about new world wine do you want to know? For instance I am not really aware of course, that is not high end technical, covers much about australian wine per se at all. Neither of your courses are probably that consumer oriented, both are trade based. But if you want to learn more about wine in general the wset might be fun.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. While the Brits do like their claret, there's a lot of decent 'New World' wine being consumed in the UK, so it seems to me that an open-minded UK wine trade qualification would still require reasonably broad knowledge. Also, according to WSET's site, their courses (in 2002 - time to update the home page, WSET guys) were run in 4 languages and 24 countries - including here in Hong Kong. They present themselves as much more than just a UK trade qualification. Back to my original question - anyone know how WSET and International Sommelier compare, especially as to ratio of France/rest of the world content? Well Dave, you are entitled to presume what you like, but as someone who has completed this course, I feel pretty qualified to comment. there is not a lot of new world wine consumed in the UK, in the context you are referring to at least. the average price of a bottle of Australian wine sold in britain last year was £3.69, and 70% of all Australian wine was sold on promotion. the new world has not yet broken into 'fine wine' yet. I find it odd, you are arguing about the content of a course you have not taken. I am not sure about the sommelier's course, though I have friend who has done it, and I suspect it is about training to be a sommelier. go figure. perhaps you could tell us what you want from a course?

Dave, you've missed the point, the WSET isn't france centric per se, it's a qualification for working in the UK wine trade. there are elements on EU labelling, and what can be sold into the UK. it isn't a general qualification, it leads to the rigourous diploma, which then can lead to the MW program.

If it happens to be a weekend, and you don't mind a hanger-on, let me know too. Cheers, Howard will do!

Moby, Chris Staines. As to next time, not sure at this stage, but it won't be far away! will let you know. also, the reason why I think it the best lunch is that it is available 7 days a week. full 3 courses with extra bits, plus wine for £32 - can't beat it.

short review. been twice for lunch in the last week. Suggest that it is THE best lunch deal in London, bar none. Including the reigning king Gavroche, and the ever prescient Capital. 3 Courses, with wine, £32 inc Canapes. The food is magnificent, complex, powerful and assertive flavours, artful presentation. very classical french with modern influences. Quality - just under 2* standard. The wines by the glass offered with lunch are good, a nice crisp gruner veltiner, and an argentinian sangiovese. The cheese board for desert is included, no supplement. service good, views over hyde park tip top. Among the best dishes I have had this year. The wine list, is a little overpriced until you hit about £35 per bottle upwards where there are some great bargains. great range of languedoc wines - wonder where they got them ? why isn't this place mentioned more????? 9/10

went to Zaika, almost 2 years ago exactly. Food was ok, but went with the wine matched menu (when will I ever learn to take myown advice???). Mediocre matching, but what was worse they didn't serve them together. the wine pours came out in all sorts of orders, and never actually with the dishes.

agreed, a nice amarone should do the trick.

If it's the same team, I would think a second star is well within their sights. Come to think of it, what about Atelier isn't fine dining? food wise that is. the quality is there.

Clearly Moby's house is THE place to be, does anyone know the booking policy or if they turn tables. how far in advance should I call? what if I tell them it's my birthday, and my unborn child's dieing wish to eat there? What I threaten to clockage the entrance for 7 days dressed as spiderman? anyways, Best dishes: Oxtail soup - square Pea broth/Ravioi - Daniel Boulod at le Manoir Plat du Rhubarb - Patrick O'connell at le Manoir Potato Gnocchi - Latium Fish Soup - Racine mash potato & pea sandwiches - home; hey it's a fetish what can I say there must be more, I've checked the bank statement, I've eaten out way more than this. will update. S

One o One must be easily the best seafood restaurant in the UK, and one of the top handful in London overall. fantastic place, great food, wonderful service, shitty room. Do One-0-One have a lunchtime deal? If not, roughly what would you expect to pay for lunch for two with a moderate-to-reasonable bottle of wine? it has a great lunctime deal - about 23 for 3 course. wine is expensive, stick with a Gavi di Gavi or Muscadet. at that rate say 85 - 90 for lunch for 2 people. what I like is that they are the only people who actually cook with fish, I hate this fresh produce, simple grilling, and expensive prices school of cooking. Simple food is good, just don't charge haute cuisine prices.

black velvet = guiness + champagne. particularly suited to oysters me thinks!

One o One must be easily the best seafood restaurant in the UK, and one of the top handful in London overall. fantastic place, great food, wonderful service, shitty room.

volume and discount look for Oddbins.

Grange de Pere rouge 2000 stunning wine.

Gareth, I'd hate to see where you eat, if the bank manager does ever let you off the leash!

Moby, I am rapidly becoming a whore for their fish soup...

Larry Elliot explains the commercial motivation for turning 'old man's boozers' into wallet laundries for the young. except that it doesn't.