Scott

are you sure? I'd have thought exactly the opposite is true. With Gagniere or Adria as an example, the more the creative the food, the less wine suits it. I think jbraynolds point is that because the food is so creative and all-over-the-map, it's hard to pick a couple of bottles on your own that will go with the meal. Better to let the restaurant do the matching, since they know the food and their wine. At least at Trio, they do a remarkably good job of coming up with pairings for some of their whackier food items (and let you know when "no wine with this one" is the right answer). I suspect what they do a great job of, is selling you expensive (and ludicrously profitable) flights of wine. Not to mention convincing you that this great secret science couldn't possibly be done cheaper or better yourself. food all over the map, should lead more to the middle ground not away from it. That seems to be the position of the more cutting edge chefs. I just do not believe the actual degustatory experience is really helped that much by these flights. It's fun to have more wine, it's nice grandeur to have people fussing over you constantly, but I don't really feel this elevates the sensory appreciation of what is consumed. Besides these flights are usually filled with pretty pedestrian wine, whose only merit (besides chunky GP) is their nebulous, symbiotic relationship with a given dish. Until the next seasonal dish it miraculously mates with.

then we can give up????

you could. it doesn't mean you're right, but you could

are you sure? I'd have thought exactly the opposite is true. With Gagniere or Adria as an example, the more the creative the food, the less wine suits it.

It depends on what you're looking for, though it sounds like you're trying to 'maximise' the experience. Fair enough. The wine pairing will add a little more theatre, and greater sense of opulence. Do not get too confused over this supposed perfect wine and food match thingy. It's a load of cobblers. If you like you're wine, but don't know too much, it could be fun to try a few things. If it's not too important just choose a nice middle weight bottle of wine and save yourself a bucket. There is a lot of money to be made by offering these flights, but please don't expect a precise prescription for vinous/food ecstacy. The sommelier should just as easily be able to tell you what is looking good at the moment for your budget or what is a general all rounder. if it's a special occasion, maybe the theatrics justify the cost. They will bring out a lot of small serves usually just before each dish - make them explain exactly what each wine is, and why it has been chosen often junior wait staff just plonk this stuff down as instructed. Not always, but more often that i care to remember. Best of luck. Also remember that a lot of highly creative cooking is not very wine friendly, so if they are offering an expensive wine service it's not always for your benefit!!

Moby, it's more than Lou you need to pay off now...

is louisa chu also a bloke? seriously, this article has more to do with a pretentious princess rather than any gender related hazying.

Well to me it sounds as if yet another member of 'oliver's fifteen' could use a damned good slapping. mind you, how many couldn't???? All I read in this self serving, self pitying little diatribe is someone who is not accepted, and presumes this is somehow gender related. maybe it is, maybe it isn't, perhaps that she has come a 'reality TV' program might have something to do with not being accepted as a proper chef. Everything else sounds like work as a commis, boo f**king hoo. today my sympathy aura seems somewhat cloudy

Sarah, that sounds pretty interesting, but isn't £30 upwards for 2 courses quite steep for a regional restaurant of this kind? Then again, maybe I'm just becoming complacent from living too close to chez bruce.

See there's a bright side to everything

This is so easy, but it relates to good service and manners. A byo charges you for the stemware, service, and potential lost revenue I guess. what normally happens at a good restaurant, where they take the bottle, open, perhaps decant, and ALWAYS offer you a taste. After all that is correct service, and the likelihood of a corked wine is not reduced. If it's corked you wouldn't want to serve it. I have never seen much difference to this in a good restaurant, and I think it poor if they just go pouring . Of course at your local place, where they charge next to nothing and it's all informal I would expect the bottle to be plonked down in the middle of the table.

I was thinking Timo before it was suggested here, so I will second the motion.

Mogsob, when did you last get Grange de Pere for less than $30? I would think $50 is a very fair, and more likely price.

about 40 diff red and white 2002 burg's great, great vintage. same again tonight.

I quite agree about the whites, I think the Amiot Chassagne's are stunning in 2002. I may wish to bathe in the Caillerets On the whites I find the acidity is really quite fine, and the fruit pure. That said I keep purchasing reds. that lemming thing, still applies. I think the red's have a real roasted character, lot's of herbs and mocha notes, not very expressive at this stage - but what amazing ripeness. Personally I see another 1990. more bachelets and hudellot's today, now I'm going to be eating corks. more tastings tonight...

Ian, hasn't this point already been discussed fairly extensively?

me too scott - what have you gone for so far? Gee, so far Roumier Bonnes Mares Roulot Meursault Perrieres Bachelet Charmes Bize - Savigny Verglesses (sic) Bachelet Bourgogne Chevillon - Vaucrains & Cailles My fav merchant won't release until sept, when I will get my usual Dugat-py's & JF Mugniers. I am quite keen at moment on some Amiot Chassagnes, but I am starting to dry up penny wise!

Alex, £20-40 that should be very easy. remember the market doesn't lie, it can under/over rate the odd wine, but never a whole vintage. for that mark I would suggest 96 Leoville Poyferre 95 Poujeaux 94 Grand Puy Lacoste 91 Pichon Lalande all excellent wines, and should be available in your price bracket. Had a truly excellent 2000 Duhart Milon that will drink on the early side the other night.

it's very common to dis Burgundy, you know who you are - the stormtroopers are coming , but it is my contention that not only are they wonderful wines, but sometimes great value as well. The best bit? the UK is to me, undoubtably the best place in the world to buy Burgundy. Some merchants have relationships with domaine tommy smith going back generations, they get good prices and better allocations. The wines you read about, can all be obtained fairly easily in the UK, with a little research. At prices that would make our US friends blush at times. Domaine xyz makes 75 cases of his highly prized and ludicrously priced mazis chambertin, a surprising proportion makes it's way to the UK, because they have always sold it here. the advantage of bonded warehouses also add to the attraction Now my point is, who takes advantage of this? I am sending myself to the poor house in no uncertain fashion with the 2002's, some high end stuff, and lots of charming village wines. There must be other lemmings out there? time to out yourself...

Guys, sorry to spoil the party, but 1997 is really a terrible year. That's why these wines are dumped at far below the cost of a good vintage. eg Las Cases 2000 is upwards of £1500 ex vat a case. the vintage was spoiled by rain at harvest and lots of spring frost, which hampered the intial fruit set. The wines never recovered. Generally they are dilute, sometimes with some nasty green tannins. They lack vivacity or energy in the mid palate. If the price is right some make perfectly nice drinking, but there is a reason this is a called a 'restaurant' vintage - it means uncomplicated. Las Cases is not bad, don't agree re Cos, and Latour can usually be had for about £60 at auction and that makes pretty fair drinking. I would always look to the auction house, where slight bargains can be had on this vintage.

Alex, this is a particularly odd wine. As you may know the 1997 claret vintage almost sent a number of merchants to the wall. High prices, they took up allocations, and then... the wine is rubbish. They can't sell it, and most have accepted that. The las cases is not a bad wine, and is often dumped at christies and sothebys, where it goes tax paid for around 240 - 300 per case. this is dumped by the same type of merchant listing it at £1000 and then dumping, claiming a stock write off. I also would wonder if similar things are common elsewhere.

I was a wholesalers trade tasting about 3 years ago, and there was a prize for guessing blind there mystery wine, the only stipulation was that it was one of the wines on show, and there was a list of about 250 to look through if you wanted. I immediately and correctly identified it as a chilean carmenere and won a bottle of champagne as the first to do so. I didn't have the heart to them I knew straight away because it has the typical chilean carmenere finish that tasted like burnt rubber. I hate the stuff.

A number of interesting points raised recently, I especially relate to the restaurant not honouring the reservation. I think one thing to remember is that this is notional, if there is no loss, should he be charged. legally and morally no. I don't know why this causes difficulty. Curiously you would have little way of knowing if they had filled the table or not. Another thing I would like to venture: what about those restaurants that hold back tables, in case special 'celebrity' or regular guests come in. How concerned can they be with the odd empty table? Or perhaps the restaurant with double sittings, that can only get you in at 10:30, and has already covered the table that night? If no loss, no charge.

I'd love to hear you have this same chat with the airlines. Have you already given the airline your money? Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I misunderstood your point. I thought your argument (do you pay the receptionist extra money? evidence of a single penny extra in costs...etc.) was regarding the principle of cancellation fees vs costs incurred. I had no idea it was in actuality a squabble over whether or not the person that you believe to be in the wrong already had the money. If you book a holiday or flight, there are a number of differences. 1. the contract is complete, it is only final delivery that is pending. 2. the amount is fixed 3. the money has been paid over. often incurring bank/CC charges to vendor. 4. this money may then have been paid to suppliers or 3rd parties 5. A number of authorisations and genuine processing, outside of the normal course of business must be performed before a payment can be made. Why do you think this similar to rearranging the table plan of restaurant? 6. see point 1, beyond stated terms, they have no obiligation to refund you.

I'd love to hear you have this same chat with the airlines. Have you already given the airline your money?