Steve Plotnicki

Well of course you deserve an apology. But that isn't the issue. The issue is you didn't/aren't going to get one so what do you do now? Do you forgive the chef/owner because he screwed up, or do you let it go and hope he makes it up to you later? What's the upside to burning your bridges other than the satisfaction of the flames? And while there is much value in teaching him a lesson, I'm not sure you are best off with that result. What does teaching him a lesson get you? I had the following incident at La Palapa in NYC. I had been eating there a lot as I thought it was the best Mexican in the city. So on a Saturday night I made a reservation to have dinner there after the movies. We showed up exactly on time, and as we went up to the reservation stand they were leading a couple from the bar to an empty table. When I gave the guy at the stand my name, he disappeared for a few minutes, went to speak to the women who we later found out is the owner who then got a dire look on her face. He then came back to tell us the wait was going to be 30 minutes. At this I flipped out and told him when I reserved, I was specific in my time request and told the woman on the phone that if they were going to have problems seating us then we would go elsewhere. She said no, it wasn't a problem, especially if we were willing to come a half hour later then my original request which I agreed to. So it turns out that this guy at the host stand, who admitted to me while I was pressing him extremely hard about what happened to my table, that he gave the table away to the people who we had seen him seat as we walked in. Turns out, "they've been waiting at the bar for an hour and half. Why can't you wait a half an hour?" Well I had a reservation and they didn't. So this bleeding heart host, who turns out to be the owners boyfriend/husband/lover etc., then tells me if I continue to give him a hard time then I'm not going to get a table at all. I then ask for the owner who comes over to us and she is clearly embarassed. But she sticks with Mr. Shithead's hardline because it's her boyfriend etc., what is she going to do, yell at him in front of us? Her nookie comes before my happiness. So we left. And I haven't been back since and it's almost 6 months already. So I understand burning your bridges when you feel screwed. But giving up La Palapa (though my wife has been back recently) is easier than giving up a top restaurant in L.A. I think you're better off posting the name of the restaurant on the board and continue to go there. That way your means of settling the score doesn't include depriving yourself of something you like. And you know what, I hope 50 people read this and decide not to go to La Palapa because of what I wrote. That's a much better lesson for them than my giving up the chuleta they make that I like so much.

Okay let me be uncharacteristicly sensible. I sense (and this is only a gut instinct on my part) that the chef/owner was reticent about leaving the restaurant under those circumstances in the first place. And your email being so strong in its criticism (and rightly so I might add) has made him defensive about a decision that he might know deep down was a mistake, but is loathe to admit to because your criticism is accusatory. He might be further bothered by the fact that he feels he is entitled to the occassional night off, and doesn't want to feel or hear that he has no personal life outside of working at the restaurant. Or I could name countless other reasons that would cause his reponse to you to be an emotional one and not one based in good business judgement. So while I agree with you that the cutomer is always right, and the response you got from him should have been more apologetic, along with an offer to make it up to you, I think you should just forget it and bury the hatchet. My instinct is if you are willing to do that, he'll make it up to you somehow. But the way it's now postured, you both lose. Unless you just don't care and you want to blow off steam about it. That's okay too. It's just that the price for that is not going to eat there again. I'm not sure if you will be happy with that result long term.

And of course it is spitting distance from Arpege . Friends of mine who are in the art world stay at the hotel Sued which is on rue Sued a few streets over. I've gone there to pick them for dinner on a number of occassions and the neighborhood is really quiet at night.

Bux - Actually you are right and I did used to tell them rue de Beaune. But they are both Burgundian aren't they ? I stopped staying there about 4 years ago so I'm a little rusty. Rue de Bourgogne is that lovely street that leads into the rear of the Assembly Nationale where that nice silver shop resides isn't it? And that tea salon just off the Place.

From years of staying at the Montalembert, I'm a pro at describing that location to a cab driver. "A la cote (can't make that accent) de rue de Bac." Or, "rue Montalembert et rue Bourgogne c'est a meme rue." They both work like charms every time.

Gee I hate defending statements I never made. All I said is that I wouldn't go out of my way to visit the city. And while there are a few good meals there, there isn't a single meal I would call compelling enough to go. There isn't even a style of food that makes me long for the place (you need to like tripe.) But of course if you happen to find yourself in the region for a variety of reasons including a stopover between gastronomic haunts that straddle the city, or a visit to the Cote Rotie region for tasting, then the town is perfectly lively, pleasant, has some excellent food shopping and some good B level non-food shopping. But all in all I prefer a place like Nice which has all of the above times a factor of five or six times plus the beach and some world class art to view as well.

Bux - Well regardless of your personal definition of overrated, I was using it in the context of the question asked. Is it worth going out of your way to go there? My answer is still no. There is no overwhelming draw. But if you happen to end up there for a day or so it doesn't suck. But there must be 200 or more places to eat in Paris that I would choose before I decided to go to Lyon to eat. Of course this isn't true if you like tripe. As for beaujolais, it isn't local and it's all macerated plonk. I am sure that you will find artisinal beaujolais in Paris (or NYC) before you find it in Lyon.

I think it isn't a foodie place so the place isn't full of the kind of serious eaters you get in other NYC restaurants. Hence Mogsob's description of the crowd. But aside from that the food is pretty good, if a bit plain for my taste. But the outdoor seating on the terrace that runs along the side of the restaurant is nice.

Let me quickly say this before I run out to the first eGullet dinner of the Easthampton contingent (that's me and Blondie .) The "wow" factor in French cuisine currently lies among the ingredients, not among the preparations. French technique has been surpassed by the Spaniards in the "wow" factor category. Of course this is a gross generalization and it is not to mean that French haute cuisine technique isn't fabulous, but it ain't the cutting edge anymore. And it certainly doesn't have an exclusive to being "the best in the world" the way it used to. But if you read Robert's post, he decrys the fact that what he finds to be one of the greatest pieces of fish he has ever seen has been "ruined" by the use of Mirin. If you read more from Robert in the thread, you learn that the best meal he ate in France this summer was his lunch at Arpege. And there couldn't be a more ingredient intensive place where they use the most minimal technique available than Arpege. It is here where France still excels over other countries. The raw ingredients at the high end are so good, no other country compares. The problem is time has passed them by. Whatever internal source they used to conjure up recreating French cuisine, for at least 3-4 times during the last century seems to be fading. Of course that seems logical for a number of reasons. But the culinary wizards of our time, Passard (minimalist), Gagnaire (Symphonic) and Veyrat (masterful use of herbs?) have in certain ways created lateral gimmicks (I'm sorry I used that word but I'm in a hurry) to create a "wow" factor. Michel Troisgros has attenpted to do the same using Asian marinades and spicing techniques. A more difficult task if you ask me because they originate outside of French cooking philosophy. That he hasn't reached the heights of the others I've mentioned, given his choice of millieu isn't surprising. But once again, I felt he was successful enough at it to not offer harsh crticism Robert has chosen to give. In fact my meal in May of 2001 was glorious. But the only way to resolve this is to make additional visits, keeping Robert's criticism in mind. It looks like Liz is up next. She's in the hot seat.

Haven't you ever been to France where a table orders one of thise gigantic Plateau de Fruits de Mer and the people are holding those fuzzy little sea urchins in their hands with the tops lopped off picking out the meat with those little metal toothpicks? All I have to say is that if French people eat it, it must be good .

Robert - Lest we forget, because we are such big fans and proponents of French cuisine, that the lights have been dimming on French cooking for a number of years now. In fact a famous eGullet member started an entire thread on this topic which has been thoroughly hashed out. You can see from reading your post, and our experience at Maximin last April, why Daniel Boulud, Jean-Georges and others prefer to work outside of France and in a manner and style that is less restricting than what you have described at Troisgros. The biggest thing places like Troisgros suffer from is that the length of the journey (which although not arduous is still a trek) raises expectations to the level that anything short of a "wow" brings disappointment. Looking at this from a businessman's perspective, and given how far the Daniels of the world have gone in bringing the haute cuisine experience to distant shores, even if it is a somewhat diluted version in order to turn covers, the cost of creating a "wow" that is perfect on every level must be capital, and labor intensive to the point of making it financially intolerable to all but those who have the secret. I think that is why there is so much emphasis put on the hotel and the cave at Troisgros. It keeps "Troisgros" alive. Those two things are just a matter of good taste and capital. But once you have them they are locked down. Cooking on the other hand, whether we are speaking about creativity in constructing menus or follow through in preparing the food perfectly is a more fleeting exercise. But when you add the 20% of the menu which harkens back to the golden era, those three things, the hotel, cave and classic dishes have probably gotten the "Troisgros experience" to be 75% of the way there to enjoyable. This is why I am less troubled by your report then you are. There is room to miss in that 25% for simple reasons that include your ordering wrong or Michel just not getting the menu right this particlular season. But what I find encouraging is that I see many of the same items offered as when I was there in May 2001. That Chalons duck and the Pork Chop from the Limoges are stunning as ingredients. As does the fish you described. So I can chalk up your meal to the vagueries of French cooking given the time we live in. Which is mostly framed by our experiences with the Chapels, Robuchon's etc. of the world who cooked when cooking was cooking. And didn't Robuchon confirm this theory for us this week by making his announcement. Your comments about your lunch at Arpege are telling because they have found perfection, or should I say wow, by removing the wow from the equation. A different kind of wow. And your El Bulli report is clearly a different kind of wow as well. The wow that Troisgros is aiming for is based on maintaining the tradition of the village hotel restaurant on the Place de la Gare as a place that takes good care of you on every level. Kind of like a museum of a day that has almost gone, even though they modernized the experienced. But in the days of yore, you had to travel to Roanne to sample that great salmon with sorrel dish. Today, there must be 50 restaurants all over the world that make at least a variation if not an exact copy. To make a "wow" version, has to be an unbelievable burden on Troisgros. And while the version I had there last May was fantastic, it's not something I would travel half way around the world for. Once upon a time I/we would. In fact you didn't even bother to order it this time. And so it goes.

The use of uni in the DiSpirito Taylor Bay Scallops dish is fantastic. The uni flavor is initially absorbed by the mustard oil and tomato water but the finish on good uni is so long, and the flavor so deep, that it's the flavor that lingers in your mouth along with the acidity of the tomato water. But I understand the metalic flavor that is being described and I agree it is sometimes present in this dish. But it's the same flavor that is present in raw oysters. Is it iodine, mercury, kryptonite, or just the way the sea water plays against the fresh water of the tomato water?

You need to try top notch uni to be sure. Next time you're in NYC, go to Sushi Yasuda and order it there. They have the best quality I've ever had. The texture there is more custard like and less like sweetbreads, which is what lesser uni seems like (although it isn't as firm) to me. In fact I never enjoyed it until I went to SY.

"Based on my meal, I would say that Michel Troisgros is not in the upper echelon of French chefs. I also have never picked up any sense that the culinary world feels that he is also." Well this is sort of the double whammy isn't it? What Troisgros is famous for (and this goes to Michel as well,) is keeping the family tradition alive. That means they are still cranking out excellent versions of what you ate in 1975-1982 and they also have been updated and modernized a few times to keep them current. What Michel Troisgros is not famous for is for creating an entire menu on his own that is at the level of what you call "the greatest of the day." In fact none of the younger chefs in France seem to be in that league if you ask me. So if that is the test you put him to, I'm not surprised that he came up short of the perfection of Giradet etc. In fact, his heavy reliance on eastern spices is sort of a giveaway. But I think the main point here is who exactly is in the upper echelon of French cooking that can cook with Chapel, Giradet, Robuchon, and Senderens when he was still cooking? Do you see Gagnaire, Passard, Chibois etc. or any other chef at that level? The ones whose cooking approached that level like Boyer, Pacaud or the troika in Burgundy. they're all tired now. They don't cook with the enthusiasm and panache of the days of yore. So considering how far great cooking has fallen, Troisgros actually remains one of the few places that still aproximates those days.

Robert - I'm sorry your meal was below expectations. When I was there in May of 2001, although the component of sweet was present in many dishes, the menu didn't seem to be so overtly influenced by Asian cuisine as the meal you ordered. And although I trust your plate to a very high degre, I wonder if your experience is a combination of not ordering well, and having expectations based on prior visits that are unrealistic given how cooking has changed over the last 25 years. Putting it a different way, you needed to hold Troisgros to a different standard both on menu construction and on follow through. But of course you could be right. That is why both you and I both have to go back to check it. As to that great wine list, what wine did you order?

Rachel - Have you tried sweetbreads in an Argentinian Parrillada restaurant? They grill them, and they make them crispy so the mushiness gets cooked out of them yet they aren't dry. La Lampeira on 37th Avenue in Jackson Heights can make some good ones as can La Cabana on Roosevelt Avenue off of Junction Blvd. Then if you pick up the taste for them cispy and sort of dry(ish) and salty, you can work your way up to a mushier texture.

Kitchen Arts & Letters, Citarella, Eli's, Vinegar Factory and Loaves & Fishes in the Hamptons. I'm very picky with customers .

Since I import Alziari olive oil from Nice, we liberally douse everything in it. My favorite is on ripe tomatoes with some fresh goat cheese spread on top, doused with the oil and sprinkled with good salt. Yummy. Also is great used in those raw tomato sauces.

I am one who finds eating in Lyon overrated. There's nothing wrong with it. You can have a good meal at a number of bouchons (local style reataurants) and some of the better restaurants like Lyon de Lyon are very fine. But I would not go out of my way to visit the city based on the food. Unless you are a tripe fanatic. I think that Lyon is the tripe capital of the world hands down, But there are a number of good shopping stops. Bernachon for chocolates, and there is a great food market (Les Halles.) But I think the place is basically a dud as a city and if anything doesn't warrant more than a days visit. My personal favorite of the other cities in France I have been to is Nice. The place has soul. Avignon is also a nice, if smaller city.

Don't blanch the tomatoes if you want what we are referring to as a "raw sauce." Blanching and peeling are good if you want a more traditional "cooked sauce." A different take on this sauce in later days (I assume you will have bushels of tomatoes for the next few weeks) is to char the tomatoes over an open flame prior to dicing. That will give your still raw sauce a nice smokey flavor. Just remember that a raw sauce is really infused olive oil that has to coat the pasta. The tomatoes etc. gives it more taste and texture. But you have to get the essence of the tomato and herbs into the oil.

No seeds = No beards

Rachel - We do this with fresh tomatoes (both from our garden and purchased) all of the time. We dice up the tomatoes and then let them drain for a few minutes in a colander. We then shred some basil and toss it with the tomatoes. Add enough olive oil so that when you toss the tomatoes there is enough oil to coat them. If not add more oil. We then hit let them steep for about 20-30 minutes. Garlic is optional as are hot red pepper flakes or any other herb. Hit it with fine sea salt just before serving. Salting it sooner will draw water from the tomatoes. A variation on this theme is a salsa we make from Joyce Goldstein's Square One cookbook. We mince a clove of garlic, mince a few anchovys and chop up 20 Kalamata olives and a bunch of parsley. Mix together with the diced tomatoes and olive oil and let steep for 20 minutes. Great on both grilled meats and fish. Edited in: Sorry, no seeds.

Fat Guy - You left one out. Tips, or bonuses, are also a way to incentivize people. Whether that works well or not, or is approriate or not is a different issue. But I remember when I was a salesman and partially worked on a commission system. The ability to make more money, and the ability to be the highest ranked salesman motivated me in a way that a stright salary probably wouldn't have given that environment.

Lxt - I believe my response was in response to brother Whiting's definition of bribery. In that *all additional payments* for sevices rendered above the stated price were the equivelent of a bribe. My response was to point out that many additional payments, such as tipping, the vig on scalped tickets etc., were the result of someone stymieing the free market system, so an aftermarket is created by those who find themselves in possession of the goods or services. And I was making the point that additional payments like ticket scalping and tipping are not in the same category as a bribe for a defense contract. But if we use Whiting's definition they are.

Yvonne - Is that Brindisi as in southeastern Italy heel of the boot?