Steve Plotnicki

Right, and on Thursday night you can go to Fez to see the Mingus Big Band (do they still do that?) But of course that is because you can't see Mingus because he is dead. And as someone who saw Mingus perform a number of times, the big bad doesn't hold a candle compared to the real thing. Which is also why the big badn doesn't sell any CD's. Fat Guy, if you are serious about the main performers not being needed for a great peformence I do not know what to tell you. Maybe in a commercial kitchen the recipes and preparations are so much a matter of rote that it doesn't make a difference. But where greatness comes in isn't in the ordinary situation, it's in the small things like the adjustments when things are a bit unusual. What do we do when the veggies are a bit watery? Or who recognizes that today's batch of morels are top quality and then constructs a special of the day around them. Or who decides if today's batch of diver scallops would be better sauteed, seviched, broiled. etc. Or who takes a look at a strip of sirloins and decides to pan sautee or grille based on how marbled they are? Those are the tough decisions, not whether someone can follow the recipe and correctly add 3 trunes of fresh black pepper.

That's an easy one. If you like the band Aerosmith, would you go to see a cover band who did a great job performing their songs? Or would you go see the real thing?

Nina - Thank you for that. It took a few hundred posts for someone to say it. If it was so easy, everyone would be a great chef or a great conductor. And as well, you have fingered the "magical" element that makes us go to see a great conductor or a great chef. We are trying to be present when they hit a high that only they can hit.

You guys are still talking about this? As Steve Klc and a few others (including me) so aptly put it in the other thread; 1. When we go to a restaurant we have certain expectations 2. Those expectations include the type of food and who is preparing it 3. There are other secondary characteristics that are important to diners like the wine list and the service. And to some diners those are the primary issues. 4. If a restaurant doesn't substantially deliver on those promises then you have gotten something you didn't bargain for. The question then becomes, What should be done about it? It seems to me that the answer is different with each diner. Some diners have a close relationship with a restaurant and some people have the most casual relationship. In this instance it sounds like the diner had a very close relationship. How can anyone criticize him when they can't gauge his relationship? Some people feel they are good enough customers that any and all omissions makes them feel they have been mistreated. And further to that, not receieving an apology when voicing a complaint seems a little odd. Normally a restaurant apologizes regardless of what happened. That it didn't happen here, is pretty unusual given the circumstances. And I believe that many of the same people here who are complaining about drrevenue being egotistical, would be fuming if they went to Rockenwagner for dinner, had a horrible meal and then found out it was because the chefs weren't on hand. In otherwords, everyone is being pretty free with drrevenue's money. But if it was their own.....

What Robert said. Jaybee - It isn't just being jaded that is at issue, it's that the meals you ate in the 70's and 80's (I wasn't eating at that level in the 70's being merely a child (which goes to show you how old you are ,)) were the height of the artform, or craft if you will. Robert's point is that not only are there very few Chapel's anymore, if any, the environment that they worked in has changed to be a small labaratory with a staff much reduced. I too enjoyed one of my most cerebral meals ever at Arpege but it isn't the lavish experience that Robuchon or Verge etc. was in it's heyday. I remember being in Chantecler for dinner one January night and one of my guests said he was in the mood for truffles. And he ordered an entire truffle. During our third or fourth course, while we were eating something like lobster ravioli, they served him an entire truffle the size of a good juice orange that had been braised in some type of bouillon. And while it was a supplement to the bill, it wasn't really much of a supplement. Today the same truffle would probably add $250 to the bill.

Bux - A friend of mine who works at the front desk at the Balzac told me as much. But it is possible the owner of the hotel has an interest in the restaurant, seperate and apart from the hotel renting the restaurant space.

"Steve, how almost-charmingly naive of you. You think one should always be eating the chef's hands-on cooking, not merely the chef's food as executed by an underling? Do you truly believe that "the chef(s)" are there on the line, every minute of service? Or even expediting and checking plates all the time, if not actually cooking the meals? Of course not! You know better!!" Suzanne - I haven't said that. But what I have said is that if a restaurant thinks they aren't going to be on par for a given occassion, and you are a regular customer and you return over and over expecting a certain type of treatment, they should take your preferences into consideration. What seems to be at issue here is that Hans thought it would be okay, and it wasn't. And the rest of the staff at the restaurant seem to support the drrevenue side of the argument that he should have been told in advance. Now when it didn't work out okay, Hans should have been the one to eat crow, under the customer is always right theory, and apologize for it. That doesn't seem to be too much to do for a regular customer who is somewhat of a personal friend. I had the following experience recently that was on par. I organized a wine tasting dinner at Craft for six people. When we got there and I asked if Marco was in the house (like a rap star, shout out for Marco, whoa,) he wasn't there because he and Tom were opening Craft steak in Las Vegas the next night. But both the front of the house and kitchen staff seem to be prepared for my visit and the evening turned out fantastic. You couldn't tell that Tom or Marco weren't there (I bet they are happy to read this.) However, if the evening turned out lousy and then I found out they weren't in the house, I could see adopting a policy of asking the day of my reservation as to whether they will be there that evening. And if I was personal friends with either of them and they didn't tell me, or they pre-arranged to make sure I was happy and it didn't turn out that way, I can see beefing with them over not telling me. I think Deacon has got the balance right here. drrevenue is entitled to vent, even if it is a bit disproportionate. But again, we don't know that because we don't know how personal it is. But as to the issue at the heart of this, chef(s) not being present when you have dinner, I think the non-disclosure policy sucks. I can't believe a single one of you are in favor of not knowing that information. For instance, I am having dinner at Pierre Gagnaire next month and if his chef de cuisine of the last 5 years who he relied on to do the cooking walked out in a fit of anger, or got swallowed up into a mixing machine, as a consumer I am better off knowing because maybe I prefer not to spend $500 taking the chance on having a sucky meal. Maybe I'd be happier with a simple choucrotue that night instead? I just don't see how anybody here can be against getting that information. Please explain to me how a diner is better off not knowing. And save the bleeding heart restaurant stories about how hard people work and how they are entitled to a night off. It's my $500 and I want to make sure I spend it *the way I want.* Not the way they want me to.

Suzanne - I didn't qualify my acquaintance. I just tried to describe it correctly. I'm very surprised that regardless if anyone thinks that drrevenue acted inappropriately, why they wouldn't feel "gypped" if the chef(s) were off on a night when they ate there? There is so much talk about anonymity in reviewing restaurants, and making sure you get the "typical meal," how is this any different? I understand as Jaymes eloquently put it that that isn't the standard when it comes to restaurants. And she stated a number of good reasons why. And I agree that the simplest thing to do was to have asked if Hans was in the kitchen that night. But to be fair, the reason that drrevenue didn't ask was because this had never been an issue before. As for the ax he has to grind, I already told you that it is personal. I will never understand it given the information I have. And when things are personal they aren't rational to outsiders so I am trying to ignore that part of the story. Except that I consider drrevenue to be a friend. And I don't know Hans Rockenwagner from Hans Christian Andersen. So on a personal level he has my support.

David - He's not a hoax. A number of us know him personally. Well sort of.

Robert - Well the little places were always a part of gastronomic travel. In fact for me they were always more important then the 3 star places. On a trip to the Cote d'Azur, I enjoy eating a meal at the level of Chibois but I often visit there and don't take a meal at that level. But I would never pass up eating at La Cave or Loulou. And even in Paris, I usually take my meals at bistros. So I don't think the smaller places are really anything new. And while you're right that we need to branch out into Spain and Italy, and other countries too including the U.K., none of that speaks to the age old tradition of a haute cuisine meal. This is why I always thought the right metaphor for haute cuisine was the opera. An artform where all the melodies have already been written and where they have all been performed before, so many times. Yet people still go and they still fly all over the world to do it. And they dress up too. Is that what haute cuisine is coming too? Is Lucas-Carton and Troisgros like the opera and Arpege and L'Astrance like a chamber music concert?

Rachel - I'm, 99.999% sure. If they advertised that X was performing and he can't make it, they will let you trade the tickets in for another date. A friend of mine did it recently when she got to the theater but I can't vouch for it being the case at every theater. I wish we all weren't so obsessed with drrevenue's being pissed off about not being told by the reataurant that the chef(s) weren't going to be on hand. He obviously feels that he has a personal enough relationship with Hans to be afforded that type of treatment. And I don't really see any basis for his being criticized for expecting special treatment. It sounds like he is entitled to it. But why is nobody responding to the grievence on the merits? Is it okay to show up at a dinner at an expensive restaurant and to have it be an inferior experience, only to find out afterwards that the chef(s) weren't on hand? Couldn't they have told you that ahead of time? Especially if they know you and they know you are going to be unhappy with an inferior meal. Isn't that the type of good service a restaurant should afford its regular clientele?

But isn't the "real deal" real deal Goose liver? And is that why the French stuff they import here is cheaper and inferior? Is French goose liver allowed in the U.S.?

"Equally surprising, if not more so, is that the great artists and inventors of any age manage to find a creative possibility where the rest of us fail to see it. It's not that there's really any field without a creative possibility, but that there doesn't exist that person who can find it. " You know this just isn't true. There aren't any successful cubist painters today. Not if you define success as the fame painters like Picasso and Braque achieved. And there are no jazz musicians who achieve the fame of Miles and Trane either. There aren't any commercially successful operas, if you consider successful to be a Puccini etc., and there aren't even any successful Broadway musicals that are in the style that was prevelent up until 1970. And it isn't that there aren't artists who don't work in those milleus, and countless others I can mention, it's just that nobody cares about them. And the reason nobody cares about them is they are not painting Guernica, recording Kind of Blue and writing Oklahoma, all great works of art that transcended their core audience into being some type of commercial success. In fact in most instances they aren't even making small contributions to the genres. It's for this reason, and this reason only, that not many people are heading off to Roanne for dinner. There aren't many magazines and books that are telling people they absolutely have to go. And the reason they aren't telling people that is there isn't really a compelling reason to go. Unless of course it is you, I, Robert, etc. that we are describing. But to the average Joe, there isn't any cooking going on in those places that we "can't live without." Almost everyone except newbie's have eaten it already. The same way we have heard the same riffs played in a jazz solo hundreds of times, seen the same women's face depicted in multi-dimension or heard variations of "Another Opening, Another Show" from a dozen different composers. I'm afraid it doesn't get much more complex than this and to overanalyze why French haute cuisine is in the doldrums won't get us very far. You only have to look at the milliuu that Pascal Barbot and Joel Robuchon *chose to work in.* Clearly you can make a lot more money selling 65 meals a night at 300 euros a clip than 40 meals at 100 euros. Unless of course you can't make any money doing it. And that can only be for two reasons. The economics don't work. Or the cooking isn't good enough to make the economics work. It doesn't seem to matter which one it is because it brings you to the exact same place. It ain't good enough to stand at the same vantage point it stood at 20 years ago because it overcame the economics, which is the test of any restaurant that is partially artistic and partially a business.

But they used to list the Top 5 in each category up until two years ago. It was much more useful than the red stars which they also used to include when they had the list.

Who said the French was better? I just said I heard that they stopped carrying the domestic stuff. Obviously I was misinformed. How much does the top quality stuff cost in France?

The Time Out Guide is the best guide because it has the most extensive listings. However, I used to think they were more discriminating then they are now. I also used to like it better when they published the five best restaurants in each category. It saved me lots of time and it tipped me to places that I might not have chosen if I was left to my own devices. Patog the Persian restaurant on Crawford Place off of the Edgeware Road is one. It was a "Critic's Favorite" a few years back and so I gave it a try. I must have eaten there a dozen times since then and I often get off the day flight from JFK, check into my hotel and head up there for a late dinner. Sometimes lists are very helpful.

Bux - While Gagnaire is physically in the Balzac, the hotel has no connection to the restaurant. But I should add to this thread for others who might be reading, both the Balzac and the Vigny are around the corner from the McDonald's on the Champ's Elysee so are a great place to stay with children when in Paris. There's nothing like McDonald's and then MTV in French, while mommy and daddy are supping at Gagnaire.

Tony - Your 10,000% wrong. Drrevenue and his wife left because the food wasn't up to the standards they expected from the place. If the food was *DELICIOUS* they wouldn't have walked out and they wouldn't have complained. The only reason it got to the stage of why they didn't forewarn them was because *THEY LEFT BECAUSE THE FOOD WAS NO GOOD.* Look I just said this in the other thread. If I book at a famous chef's restaurant and he isn't going to be there, and the lack of his presence is going to materially affect the quality of my meal, I would gladly book elsewhere. I don't see what is wrong with that position. And I don't see what is wrong with asking a restaurant to disclose that to you in advance so you get to make an informed decision.

Bux - You disagreed with me and then you agreed with me. Every cultural millieu has its era of greatness. There's a reason that swing music is dead. First there are no musicians that are as good at it as Duke Ellington etc. Second if there were, there aren't harmonic combinations left unexplored by the greats of the era that a great musician would find it an interesting genre to work in, let alone the public thinking that. So it's sort of circular. What a surprise that the great creative people of our time, regardless of millieu, work in fields that have creative possibilities that are unexplored. You can point to other differences between today's French chefs and the ones who were cooking in the 70's and 80's. Chefs like Bocuse, Robuchon, Verge, Blanc, they were almost household names for an entire range of American and British travelers. But are Veyrat, Roellinger and Bras the same? Nobody has heard of them except for chefs and hard core foodies. Why do you think that is? Isn't it because what they have created is pretty much the same as what the chefs of a generation prior created? Saying it another way, if Michel Troisgros's didn't share the family name, would anyone schlep to Roanne? Would Robert have? I don't see Robert schleping to Cancale or to L'Arnsburg. He schlepped to Roane because of the family name. Not because of what Michel Troisgros is known for cooking. Having tried to sell people popular culture for the past 23 years, I can tell you this. People want to buy a story. They want to buy what is new and groovy and they want new experiences. Today the food experiences they want to have are Nobu, French Laundry, Jean-Georges and a few others. What they don't *need to do* is to schlep to Cancale or L'Arnsburg for a meal that they won't find to be materially different than one at Jean-Georges or Daniel. Now you or I might be willing to do it. But that's like saying we are willing to go to La Scala on a particular night of the season because we like the way a particluar seconday role is performed by a certain singer. And like classical music or jazz today, if discussion about haute cuisine is left unto a bunch of fanatics, then its dying a slow but belly filling death. Culture has to transcend its core audience to be profitable. And you will find that a restaurant, which is in reality a business, desperately needs profitability as a component of the creative process. One has to look no further than L'Astrance, an environment where the books balance so Barbot can be inventive. I'm sure that if he opened a place with a larger scope and he wasn't making ends meet, it would suffer on every level including creativity.

White truffles in Paris? It's possible but I've never seen them. White truffles come from, and are ordinarily served in Italy. Black truffles come from and are served in France and the season starts in mid-December. But of course that doesn't mean Guy Savoy didn't serve them to you. But game season is during the winter. So the later you go, the better off you are. If you are looking for a bistro that specializes in game, go to Le Petit Marguery in the 13th. And the restaurant Gerard Besson is one that specializes in mushrooms. Also the Vigny is better than the Balzac which was run down the last time I stayed there. It is more of a businessman's hotel then the Vigny. But if you want a hotel in that category try the Montalembert or the Bel Ami. The atmosphere in the left bank hotels is much more casual than places businessmen ordinarily stay at.

Andy - Normally I would agree with you. And I am very skeptical of naming names on eGullet. Notice, I didn't post my story about La Palapa until now, refraining for exactly the same reason as you voiced. But what makes drrevenue's story different is the source of the complaint is inedible food. That the reason the food was poor happens to be one that has taken the story out on the tangent of owner responsibility to customers doesn't change the fact that the breakdown here was in the kitchen. I think the issue of whether a chef/owner of a restaurant should forewarn steady customers (or maybe even all customers) that on a certain night, the quality of the meal that has made them regulars is a valid topic. I've certainly have eaten my fair share of meals in good places that were poor. And in many instances they were probably the result of the chef gone fishing. If the kitchen is not going to be at a form that is going to make customer's happy, should you disclose it to them in advance? When I go to the theater and the star of the show isn't present and the understudy is performing, they tell me before I go into the theater and I can get my money back. But my gut about what happened here is different than Robert B.'s. The source of Hans's non-responsiveness has to be his misjudgement. It was his choice not to call and forewarn him. I don't think he was trying to trick anyone. I just think he made a judgement call that it would be alright and it turned out badly. Now he's being defensive about his decision which he might not have done if the communique had been less heated and accusatory. That's not passing judgement ondrrevenue who has every reason to be heated about it. But the more I hear of the story the more I think it's about people talking past each other and digging their heels in based on emotions than logicaly thinking though what occurred. That's why I think that Han's would apologize given the chance too. But that's not going to happen while people have their backs up.

Has anyone sent the restaurant a copy of this thread? Does Rockenwagner have a website and an email address?

I think this issue splits into two issues. No-shows A restaurant is entitled to prevent against no-shows. A credit card guarantee should suffice. A more stringent policy is my suggestion of prepaying your meal. That's the best deterrent towards people who aren't sure whether they are really going to go. Cancellation penalty Well isn't that covered by a no-show penalty? Why would they need you to cancel 30 days in advance? If they can't resell your table within 24 hours of your cancellation they shouldn't be in business. What they are really trying to do is to take advantage of the situation and keep a bunch of credit card guarantees for people who have to cancel within 30 days. So okay lawyers, is 30 days an enforceable policy?

I didn't know they let you bring your own wine there so I have never gone. I think I can manage to find one acceptable bottle of California wine so I'll give the place a try. As to the foie gras, I was under the impression that after the USDA lifted the ban on French foie gras that D'Artagnan stopped carrying Hudson Valley foie gras in favor of the real deal.

How can we love the ritual of fine dining yet be so hypercritical? "Older diners are likely to complain that things aren't like they were in the old days. They always have and they always will. That doesn't mean they aren't right, but times change and dining changes with it, often much to our displeasure." Bux - There is one strong factor that weighs against the argument that it's just people of a certain age commenting on change. Those people have lived through the golden age of haute cuisine which peaked in the 80's. It's like jazz. Joshua Redman is a fine musician but, people who saw Sonny Rollins at the Village Vanguard in 1970 react differently to his playing then people who are 25 years old who didn't see Sonny and Shorter etc. in their prime. I think food is the same. Robert's reaction to his meal at El Bulli takes into consideration how groundbreaking the technique is, apart from his liking the meal or not. Michel Troisgros isn't even coming close to skinning that cat. He is trying to reinvent French cuisine with spicing techniques that originate outside of France. Ultimately I think it isn't Troisgros who is floundering, I think he is doing a valient job of keeping the cuisine and the experience alive. It is the cuisine as a whole that is floundering. Just like jazz, it was exciting to eat the cuisine from chefs who were speaking it for the first time. Now that the younger chefs haven't really invented a language of their own, but are just speaking the same language with the slightest variation, it's just not as interesting. Just look at the list of chefs in France who have lost their perch, not to be replaced by other chefs who can keep the flame burning. Verge, Bocuse, Loisseau, Mennau, etc., loads of them.