Steve Plotnicki

Don't order the Omakase there. If you have never been to Nobu, you need to have the signature dishes on your first visit. There's time for Omakase on your next visit. While others might disagree with my short list, I think the signature dishes are as follows. Broiled Toro with spicy miso - It gives the impression of eating steak. The miso is rubbed on one side and the fish cooked on that side. The other side is completely raw/rare like a slice of filet mignon. Rock Shrimp Tempura w Ponzu & Chili Pepper - Kind of like a bowl of fried calamari with a twist. Squid Pasta w Garlic Sauce - Squid cut to look like pasta served with asparagus and shitake mushrooms Creamy Spicy Crab - I think this is the best dish there. The sauce sort of reminds me of a combination of Italian food and Chicken Tikkka Masala. Broiled Black Cod with Miso - Sablefish marinated with miso, rice wine and broiled. Amazingly tender and it has sort of a sweetish taste. Broiling makes the marinade caramelize beautifully. There are lots of other good dishes but I think these are really unusual. Appetizers/sushi etc. are all good, but in my opinion, not as special as the dishes I listed.

Gee Robert, why wouldn't people who didn't know each other not enjoy themselves? Last time I was at Ducasse they had 1990 Jayer Cros Parentoux on the list. It was $700 but that is less than half of what it sells for at auction. If one applies the Calvin Trillin rule of how much you would save when buying it by not having to pay the normal restaurant price which would probably be around $2500, it's quite a bargain. Could be the best bottle you'll ever drink. Especially if it's a special birthday. They have Coche Perrieres on the list too. Not sure what vintage.

I've been watching this thread and I have to admit I don't know what to think of it. It seems to be a tug of war but everyone is using a different rope so the conversation doesn't seem to have any real traction. So in the hopes of trying to tie it all together, here goes. I think that there are two different types of dining in France. There is French regional cuisine and there is haute cuisine. Yes of course many of the 3 star establishments cook in the style of their region but I submit, if you want to understand Alsatian cuisine, Auberge d'Ill isn't the place to learn it in the first instance. Better off doing most of your eating at winstubs and brasseries in the smaller villages and have one or two meals in top places to understand both where the cuisine has come from and where it has gone. Then there are people who only view food in its international form. Like Jordyn they have done a fair amount of eating in the U.S. and they are more interested in understanding how food in the U.S. is derived from French cuisine. While I find the latter a valid way of spending one's vacation (and a delicious one too I might add,) if you really want to understand French cooking and a good portion of the history of modern cuisine, I would spend my time in bistros sampling cuisine from every region in France rather than embarking on a string of 3 star meals. The first thing people should learn about French cuisine is the difference between the three different cooking fuels. Not only is there a culture of cooking with olive oil and herbs in the south, butter and cream in the north and goose fat and garlic in the southwest and northeast, they are fully formulated cusines and range from peasant dishes to sophisticated recipes. The taste differential between the three is quite startling. I mean eating a real bouillabaisse, cassoulet, choucroute and a bresse chicken in a cream sauce all in the span of a few days can rock your culinary world. Fortunately the French, good self promoters that they are built a place where it is easy to sample these three cuisines, and all the sub-variations on them without having to travel great distances. That place is called Paris. And for anyone who wants a primer on French cuisine, I would suggest that they go to Paris for a week and stay there, whiling away their daytimes in museums and shops and dining away their meals in a way that gives one an overview of what makes France, France. Of course, a 3 star meal or two thrown into the mix won't hurt things. In fact it's a good idea just so one can understand things within context. And if I was to travel to another region it would be to the coast. Provencal cooking is one region that is not recreated well in Paris. So much of the cooking is dependant on the enviornment and fresh ingredients that it loses something in the translation to Paris. I don't think one really gets enough out of a tour of starred establishments unless they have an understanding of regional cuisine under their belts. Not that it won't be enjoyable, but it will be missing a level of understanding I think is necessary for any serious eater. But if one was determined to set out on one, I would stick to the strategy of sampling cuisines with three different cooking fuels. It can be easily done if you stay within the southern half of the country during your week there. And if there is a reason to distinguish between places like Bras and Veyrat, I don't know of any other reason to choose one over the other than to try and sample meals that originate in different culinary strategies. As for Eugene's point about people collecting merit badges, I happen to agree with him that there are many people out there who include eating at starred establishments in their itinerary simply because that is what one does when in France. One stays "here" and eats "there" because that is what you are supposed to do. That type of diner never bothered me. I mean they are entitled. Not everyone has to be as interested in eating as I am. But I also think that Bux's examples of being an opera or Truffaut buff aren't comparable since those activities are missing the obvious conspicuous consumption aspect that comes with 3 star dining. France for a small country is a big place. In some ways it's really about 15 different smaller countries thrown together. One can get a lot out of it if one approaches it the right way. Fortunately, if one appraoches it on a merely international level it offers great benefits too. I just think that what makes France great is that there's a soul to the place. And that soul is much less obvious at today's temples of cuisine.

Tony - I'm sorry I don't agree. When you go out into a public space you are susceptable to the reasonable behavior of others. That's what being in a public space is about. Given all the different choices of ways she could have dealt with it other than involving Jaybee, it sounds to me like she wanted to call attention to herself and her loss and she did so in an inappropriate way. You know it's hard to tell when a stranger confronts you this way if they are sincere or they are just control freaks. One's reaction has to do with how the stranger comes off. This type of interaction used to happen in restaurants all of the time when smoking was still allowed but on its way out. Somone at the next table would complain about the smoke, even in a smoking area. And the exact same type of interaction that Jaybee had with this woman would occur. Someone would pay a visit to your table and "personalize" the request in order to make you feel bad. It was a strategy calculated to make you uncomforatble enough to behave in a way that was different than the way you were entitled to for no other reason than the person wanted an environment they weren't entitled to. Considering all of the choices that were available to this person who was unhappy with Jaybee's behavior, including asking the maitre'd to change tables, I don't understand why the problem became Jaybee's problem? People should try and deal with their own problems and not try to publicly impose them on innocent people who have nothing to do with them. Or maybe I should ask my neighbors to refrain from eating kidneys because I think they are disgusting and I can't stand the sight of them and it makes me want to vomit and ruins my meal......

Jaybee - Is the 22nd really your birthday? Me and Robert Brown too! Three eGulleters on the same day. How can it be? Are people born on that day particularly hungry? I'm going to Bouley for dinner with two other couples and one of the other wives happens to be born on Wednesday as well. My celebration began at Gramercy Tavern on Saturday, Annissa tonight, Bouley and then Sugiyama to cap off a birthday week. What are you drinking? I started off with a 1954 Cune Vina Real on Saturday and it was splendid.

I don;t think it has anything to do with whether one is free to discuss anything they want in a public space. Nor is it about being loud because her request was to change the topic not pipe down. The fact of the matter is that there is no correlation between the death of her sister and the death of your friend and placing the burden on you to keep her from remembering her sister's death is a little much. And from a practical standpoint I don't understand why her choice of telling you to button up is a better one than her gritting her teeth and not paying attention? I mean she could have begun her own conversation on a different topic and ignored your conversation. Who ever heard of someone being forced to listen to a conversation? Even if she was there alone, she could blank out on the conversation. It sounds like Jaybee, maybe she just was looking for an excuse to touch you?

Tony - Actually the problem with most old bottles aren't the wines potential aging windows but the corks. Corks are such poor stoppers because of their imperfections that a perfectly stored case of wine can have multiple bad bottles, as well as good bottles in it. I recently bought a case of 1985 Clos Mont Olivet Chateauneuf du Pape and the first three bottles were great. But I brought a bottle to dinner with me this week and it was oxidized. So when you talk about '45's etc., the odds of getting a good bottle are really slim. But I have had numerous good bottles of wine from the 50's which taste like they are 20 years younger than they are. In fact we drank '54 Cune Vina Real last night (birthday wine) and it was a joy to drink, full of fresh fruit. But I bought it two years ago and it came right from the Domaine's cellar. I think if you find wines where the chateau didn't cheap out on corks and paid the extra few centimes/pesatas for long and wide corks and the wine has been stored in a nice cold cellar (50f) since bottling, it will taste fresh and juicy.

Pan - I think we should schedule an eGullet dinner in a Malaysian restaurant of your choice and you can order the menu. Then you can teach us all about the glories and subtleties of Malaysian cuisine. Why don't you pick a few dates at the end of June and see if we can scare up 6-10 people.

Mao - I ate a couple of very good meals at Sono. Too bad they decided to open in the death location. Anyway, I attended a great private dinner there a few years back and I thought you would enjoy this blurb from my notes. "The next dish should win the Best Presentation award. It was a rack of lamb that was roasted in a red clay crust and served with winter vegetable fricassee. They presented us with what looked like three pillows, 6 inches high and a foot long with the name of the restaurant and the date engraved on each one. They were the same color red as a tennis court and the color was deep, as if they had been baked in the sun. They laid one at my end of the table and an intense aroma of rosemary and lemons wafted through the clay shell. Then they cracked the shells and peeled the clay away from the lamb and sliced them into double chops. It was just a fantastic dish that tasted every bit as good as the presentation looked. Bravo."

Johnson - While I've been fortunate enough to taste a few good bottles in my day, my list pales compared to the types of lists you see from people who have been into wine for a long time. I mean there was the day when bottles from the 20's and 40's were affordable compared to what they cost now. Lucky be the person whose father left them magnums of '28's, 45's and 47's, or the person who started collecting in the 70's and is sitting on a treasure trove that they paid peanuts for.

Wilfrid - I think that one has to tread carefully with young'ns like Lullylou. My preference is that they learn how to eat well. So it is important to help them see the light. Whereas one needs to apologize to you about as often as a game bird likes to play a pie tin. As for cheap eats, I think we post on them as often as they merit posting about. However, one must admit that the conversation on this board exists at a high enough level that a place has to really be worthy to coincide with the other topics we discuss. Hopefully that means we only discuss the very top places. Soba - Well that's the difference between food writing and quasi-political writing. The quintessential place where the type of people are a sure fire indicator of the type of food served are old school Italian restaurants and steakhouses populated by guys who say "dese and dem." That the big hair crowd might be a predictor of a robust red sauce and thick chops has nothing to do with how good the sauce or the chops are. But in places when the sauce is a good one, they add a hell of a dimension to the experience

Lullyloo - My apologies if you have been offended in any way and I don't think that is anyone's intent. I think you need to see our comments here strictly being limited to food quality. Cutting to the chase on this issue, I think most of the places on the list would suck if I tried them. And of the good ones, very few will be earthshattering. And if the people who can only afford to eat in that category find reading that offputting, I don't know what to tell them. The truth is the truth. And while there is a need for lists like that to exist, that need doesn't necessitate speaking of them in a manner that doesn't conform with the reality of what is good and what is bad, and what is of good quality and what is not. Having said all of that, like you, I find his reviews and those from others like him to be very useful. As I said, I have no compunction getting in my car and driving from the Upper East Side out to Kings Highway in Brooklyn to eat Kosher Yemenite. But all too often the places really suck. And I have found that the reason is that Siesema and those like him aren't discriminating enough, even on a level even you can afford. In fact, I have had such bad experiences that when we do schlep somewhere these days, we take a list of recommendations because we have found that some places we don't want to go into when we get there. From what I see, this lack of discrimination is mostly driven by the cheap eats crowd being mystified that cheap + authentic = delicious and as a result, awarding extra brownie points. And not only do I think that such a formula shouldn't be part of any review, it's inclusion actually detracts from credibility. As for his Sugiyama review, I have no problem with any writer describing the patrons at a restaurant. I do it all the time. It brings the reader into the room. But it isn't a subsutitue for describing the food. The food is the food. It tastes good or it doesn't. And it is either worth it or not. Mink stoles shouldn't make the sushi taste any different. But whatv Sietsema does in that review is try and describe the garishness of the customers as a way to describe the food. Like saying that only people who are as foolish as what I am describing would eat at this Emperor's new clothes type of place. That's the part that has gone too far.

Lullyloo - My apologies if you have been offended in any way and I don't think that is anyone's intent. I think you need to see our comments here strictly being limited to food quality. Cutting to the chase on this issue, I think most of the places on the list would suck if I tried them. And of the good ones, very few will be earthshattering. And if the people who can only afford to eat in that category find reading that offputting, I don't know what to tell them. The truth is the truth. And while there is a need for lists like that to exist, that need doesn't necessitate speaking of them in a manner that doesn't conform with the reality of what is good and what is bad, and what is of good quality and what is not. Having said all of that, like you, I find his reviews and those from others like him to be very useful. As I said, I have no compunction getting in my car and driving from the Upper East Side out to Kings Highway in Brooklyn to eat Kosher Yemenite. But all too often the places really suck. And I have found that the reason is that Siesema and those like him aren't discriminating enough, even on a level even you can afford. In fact, I have had such bad experiences that when we do schlep somewhere these days, we take a list of recommendations because we have found that we don't even want to go into some places when we get there. As for his Sugiyama review, I have no problem with any writer describing the patrons at a restaurant. I do it all the time. It brings the reader into the room. But it isn't a subsutitue for describing the food. The food is the food. It tastes good or it doesn't. And it is either worth it or not. Mink stoles shouldn't make the sushi taste any different. Yet he really tries to describe how the food tastes by describing the garishness of the customers.

Steve Klc - As my friend Sasha Katzman says, it wasn't until he drank 1947 Cheval Blanc (one of the great bottles of the 20th century for those who don't know and in fact maybe the greatest,) that he learned which $10 bottles of wine were the really good ones. This extreme example makes the point very well because it pits a $3500 item against a $10 item and it implies there is a level of enjoyment that one can find in each bottle and necessarily at all increments in between. Unfortunately there is so much writing at the cheap eats level that either doesn't understand this point, or rejects it on pseudo-political grounds that the writers lose credibility with accomplished diners. While I understand that this posture plays to an audience who wants to feel that the segment they occupy is the only legitimate segment, what I always find amazing about it is that for a demographic that thinks of themselves as PC, they are willing to speak poorly of others as part of achieving that feeling, or by censoring discourse which a certain other chatroom is famous for. That is how you end up with reviews like Sugiyama. Soba Addict - Well don't you get it? The schelp is part of the mystique. I used to have a small group of people from my industry where once a month we would schlep outside of Manhattan to eat ethnic food somewhere. One time at either Sietsema or Leff's recomendation we got in my car and went bounding out to Fresh Kills in Staten Island to eat at a German restaurant named Killmeyer's. Well it was so far out in S.I. that it was almost on the Outerbridge Crossing. When I pulled into the parking lot, we could have been in Oklahoma. In fact one of our group commented that it felt like we were really far from home. What we found inside was food that was so ordinary with bland, unspicy bolgnaesque knockwurst that it wouldn't even be worth traveling crosstown in Manhattan for the food let alone halfway across the U.S. Clearly this place made the list for the "cool factor" of the location and not for the food. As for ethnic food and simple cooking technique, I didn't say ethnic, I said inexpensive food. The list of ethnic restaurants you named are all quite expensive. And that is because they use top quality ingredients and agonize over food preparation. Something that I don't think is going on at El Paso Taqueria.

Pan - While your response is well intended, and inspired I might add, it still misses our point. The problem with everything you have raised so far like morality is that it can only be measured subjectively. One persons suicide bomber is another persons freedom fighter. The thing about the monetary system and why it is fair is the market is an objective measure of what things are worth. So when we say that wealth is earned according to merit, we make no value judgements about it other than it has value to the market.

Soba Addict - If you knew the places you would know that they are ranked according to preference. Congee Village and Dosa Hut are on every all time foodie hall of fame list and are ethnic food freaks of nature. And Arunee has been a Sietsema favorite for years, to the contention of all those who feel Sripaphai is better which from what I can see is everyone else other than Sietsema. There was even a thread about it (or part of a thread) on Chowhound. Wilfrid - There are a few reasons that we don't write more about inexpensive places. One, this board is keyed into sophisticated cooking techniques and inexpensive places usually offer simple cooking methods. Second, we are all obsessed with the social context of fine dining and what it means in the history of the development of mankind. Inexpensive cuisine which is mostly ethnic, mainly explores the socio-economics of foreign places. And while I like a good Iskender Kabob, eating one at a place like Sahara in Brooklyn doesn't have much to do what is going on in Turkey. Whereas if we were dining in Istanbul, the environment of dining there might launch a conversation of McLuhanesque proportions

Pan - No you have misquoted me. Price has everything to do with quality. It just doesn't have anything to do with something being delicious. Congee Village is delicious at what it does. But it doesn't offer the type of refinement you get at a place like Le Bernadin which is why is costs so much more. There used to be a branch of Congee Village in my neighborhood and I can tell you that the scallops they used in the congee are not the same quality as the scallops at Le Bernardin. What we have been pointing out is that the cheap eats crowd not only doesn't value that level of refinement, they often speak of it with disdain. The bottom line for me (and I'm sure this is true for Yvonne and Wilfrid) is that I am suspect of having someone tell me where I can get good scallops if they can't tell the difference between the two examples raised. Which means for me that Sietsema's list will be hit and miss because for every one like Congee Village and Dosa Hut there will be those like my chicken schwarma story. But for example if we were talking about a list prepared by Fat Guy, while I might not agree with all of his choices, it wouldn't suffer from the types of problem that Sietsema's list suffers from like not identifying poor quality ingredients that have been "slathered" over with black curries.

Yvonne - I lose faith in mankind when I visit places that someone like Sietsema or Leff rave about only to find they are serving authentic junk. Two places that Sietsema raved about in particular come to mind, both in the Arabic serction of 5th Avenue in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. Sietsema reported on a "best chicken schwarma sandwich" as well as what he thought was a great Egyptian fish shop/restaurant. Well the shwarma turned out to be really bad, so much so that I couldn't fathom a good argument for it on any account. And the fish shop was plain yet fine enough (although it was Halal and they wouldn't let me bring wine in), but not worth the schlep to Bay Ridge from the Upper East Side. I mean striped bass for $8 comes with limitations to how good it is. I have to say that the older I get, the less enamored I am with the type of ethnic cuisine that the cheap eats crowd goes gaga over. So much of it is of poor quality and is nothing but a bunch of greasy slop. Not that a plate of greasy slop doesn't have a place in my heart. But let's be realistic about where it lies on the culinary spectrum.

JD - Les Halles in Lyon is the best market you will ever go to. Not for produce but for cheeses, charcuterie, meats and poultry. More Bresse chickens than you will know what to do with. And it operates as a wholesale market for the region as well. It's really high end. It even has a Petrossian stall in it. The open air market that Bux mentions on the Quai is lower in quality. But I'm not sure how it used to be in the day when Bocuse would forage there. I always liked the market in Ile sur la Sorgue on Sundays too. Haven't been but I hear the market in Bayonne is great as well.

"Funny that the "cheap is best" doesn't fly with me because it appears to be associated with a left-wing leaning. And if others were to place me somewhere it would be towards the very left wing. I think it may be the way the view is expounded that puts me off." It's because money has nothing to do with how delicious something is. Yes good ingredients will cost more but, what cost has to do with taste is something I can never quite figure out. The fact that a Pastrami sandwich at Katz's might be more enjoyable, i.e. better than a Veal Chop at a fancy Northen Italian place has nothing to do with the fact that it costs $10 and the veal chop costs $30. The reasons that the veal chop costs $20 more are well known to all. And to have someone who can weigh the two against each other fairly rank the pastrami over the chop, that is a hell of an endorsement. But no matter how good the sandwich is, it will never offer the same qualities the veal chop offers. But the "cheap is best" crowd are loathe to acknowledge that the $20 offers anything of value. Yet they have unlimited accolades for a $16 veal chop.

The Chowhound ideology is simple. It's the same one that people who love rock music have used for decades. New bands that are good are only good until they become popular. Then the effect of popularity is that history is rewritten to eliminate past plaudits. Only certain bands can survive the popularization process (like say REM) because the people dissenting can't afford to look that foolish while being critical. Sietsema's Sugiyama review is a perfect example of this being applied to food as it couldn't possibly be as bad as he makes it out to be. At $100 a head, the quality of the ingredients being offered can only make the experience so bad. And it is the same at the less than $10 level too. It can only be so good at that price point. I don't care how many interesting black curry combinations one can point to. Diversity and eclecticism do not make up for quality. While there are good choices on that list, there seem to be a bunch of skanky ones too.

Pan - We went off on this tangent because way back when John Whiting made a comment about "American Culture" in the context of discussing Craft and this is what ensued. Since then, I think the market economy/democratic process supporters have done a pretty good job explaining how it works and why it works (albeit in a simple way.) Now in lieu of being able to put forth an argument against that side, you have come along and personalized it by drawing an inference through the word "justify," as if people accumulate wealth but don't deserve it. Your statement seems to carry an additional inference of it being accumulated in an "unfair" way. Well there are two things to say about that. Nobody here participated on a personal level. Everyone argued what they believe is right, and what they think the facts are. No one should have to defend themselves here against any type of inference on a personal level. Second, if your inference is intended to point out the inequities in the system and how there are people who not only don't participate in it, live in poverty, go ahead and make an argument as to why the process is responsible. So far you haven't done that except to imply that the wealthy are somehow responsible for it and should feel guilty while others are suffering. Meanwhile, I haven't heard you offer a solution to their problem that includes your money. Only somebody elses.

Hey I had lunch at the number 5 place today. Dosa Hut in Flushing. Had a really good Dosa Masala. But would I give it #5 ranking? I don't think so. They also have moved to a new location around the corner from where they used to be and he should update his notes. Otherwise, besides the dozen or so places on the list I've been to, there's a lot of new places to try.

"but your point undermines the fanciful picture that anyone in America can obtain four star dining by displaying merit. More important is inherited wealth and the inherited, and thus not necessarily merited, opportunities it brings. And I don't see any big difference, on those grounds, between the States, on the one hand, and the UK, France and Spain on the other. " Wilfrid - You need to add the words "that has commercial value to a market economy" after the word merit. Clearly there are things that are of significant merit which have no immediate market value and which operate in a non-market, or semi-market environment like museums or universities. As for inherited wealth, it plays just as big a part in our economy if not a bigger part than anything else. When someone like me has a good idea that takes a lot of money to implement, where am I expected to get that money from other than through a banking system that reinvests inherited wealth back into the system? What makes the States different than the U.K., France, Britain and Spain is historically who had access to that reinvested wealth. Take the example of the history of the expansion of restaurant culture in America. It was driven in large part by the advent of credit cards like Diner's Club. If you look at what Diner's Club is beneath the service, it is a guarantee from financial instituions (who are keeping inherited wealth nice and tidy) to restaurants that they will get paid whether the diner pays them or not. It's the perfect example of what we are talking about. Somebody had a great idea for a consumer financial tool, an elite and moneyed class bought into the idea that it could be profitable and underwrote the idea, and it succeeded based on a democratic process of consumer acceptance. Europe has been a generation behind this phenomenon both as to providing the funding for entrepreneurs, as well as extending credit to the consumers. The entrepreneurs have historically been in large part excluded based on old class structures. That's been the key advantage that our economy has had. And the consumers were slow to be given credit because of lower wages. I can remember my first visit to London in 1977 and passing employment agencies and commenting on how low the pay was for administrative jobs. And I can also recall that as as recent as within the last 15 years that restaurants in Europe didn't accepting every credit card. These days, both of those things have changed but the Europeans are still playing catch up. And though I haven't done a thorough analysis, I would venture to guess that it's the reason that the Bill Gate's and Steve Cases of the world are here and not there.

Eugene - Taillevent is the most pleasant dining experience in the world. The only other place I knew that makes you feel as important when dining there is/was the restaurant at The Connaught Hotel in London. Both of those places have a unique definition of what good service means. On my first visit to Taillevent in 1984, my wife and I left lunch feeling like we were the King & Queen of England. But while the food is top notch, if you are going for an over the top gastro-foodie experience you might be disappointed. As opposed to chef-owned restaurants, the goal at Taillevent is not to dazzle you with a myriad of dishes served from a tasting menu. It's a five course affair at best and that includes splitting one appetizer for the table. If you do go, their signature dish is a Lobster Sausage which is always quite good. The Fondant au Chocolate avec Sauce Pistache is another dish that shouldn't be missed. A big plus about Taillevent is their great and reasonably priced wine list. The restaurant has a cellar with something like 45,000 bottles and they also operate a wine shop around the corner called Caves Taillevent. If you are the type of person who is willing to plop down a few hundred dollars for a bottle of wine, you will find that Taillevent has great choices that the restaurant sells for the same price as the wine's current retail value. Other restaurants would probably sell the same bottles for anywhere between 50% and 200% more. And there are no shortage of important bottles on the list. You will also find that if you are at all conversant in food and wine and display any expertise in their pairing, or even display the sincere cuirosity of a novice who has set off on path of acquiring that expertise, they will treat you like you are a long lost cousin.