Steve Plotnicki

I decant white Burgundy all of the time. Especially Grand and Premier Cru with a little age on them. First of all, lots of them have Burgundy stink and it blows off. Second, I find that a 17 year old Chevalier Montrachet often needs a good 30 minutes to an hour of air to open up. As for the wine getting to room temperature, I have them put the decanter in the ice bucket.

Wilfrid - No the smoked herring roe was with the bass tartar. The braised Black Bass was with fava beans and fresh peas. And while I agree that two greens in a row no-no, I thought that dish was fabulous. It was obviously inspired by L'Astrance as we were told by our own in-house expert that they poach salmon in olive oil there, and because Chef Mike did a stage there this past March. It was quite a fantastic dish, and I thought good enough to have been served in a top place in France. My dessert was a red berry compote with cream. I thought dinner was excellent. A true one star place (like as in French one star) where they capture the spirit I am looking for in cooking. And let's not forget to mention the wines. 1982 Krug which was superb, and a 1989 Andre Brunel Les Cailloux "Cuvee Centenaire" which was a little tight but still excellent.

Ornament? I thought my presence was monumental! First of all, after dinner the chefs, Dan and Mike, came to visit the eGullet celebs who were dining at our table It was in that context that they described the baby beef. If my memory serves me. It comes from Holstein's that have been raised in the Hudson Valley on a dairy farm and this is a way to use a part of the herd that has been historically discarded (whatever that means.) It is raised for 16-19 weeks, as opposed to veal which is 14 weeks and beef which is 21 weeks I believe he told us. But I thought the flavor was starting to get a little beefy. What I think Wilfrid is describing is more about the tenderness, which was completetly unusual, more than it is about the texture which to me was denser veal filet. I asked if they could make filet steaks from it and they said it wasn't a problem they just hadn't butchered the meat that way yet. Hmmm, maybe I can start a trend. And maybe they will name that cut after me. Like Delmonico Steak. "Plotnicki Steak." Gee wouldn't that infuriate a bunch of people.

Robert - Thanks for the excellent writeup. Two questions. What wines did you drink? And what do you think Ducasse can do to make his restaurant more a reflection of his American clientele? I find that when he does his biannual mailings which list the two menus he offers, they don't seem not to be very artfully composed, and clearly lack excitement (the menus that is, not the layouts.) Isn't the real problem that not only do the menus seem to be chosen and tested in the Ducasse test kitchen, and as such miss being a reflection of a NYC lifestyle, but the cuisine itself (even when its at its best and delicious) doesn't have that much personality to it in the first place? If Ducasse's food had a stronger imprint to it to begin with, wouldn't the need for "localization" be somewhat relaxed? For example, Nobu's outposts in other cities do not have tremendous localization problems because Nobu's culinary concept is so unique and identifiable. Would you (and I as well) have this particular complaint about Ducasse if his menu was anchored by 3-4 signature dishes and the rest evolved from there?

Robert S.- Not that I can use the information because I am wheat sensitive, but you should post a thread with the places in town (and in the world) who make the top bread(s). It would be very useful info.

Cabrales - When my office was on Astor Place I used to go there all of the time. I used to think it was one of the cities best places but to be honest I haven't been in two years. I stopped going because the wine list stank, they wouldn't let me bring my own, and reservations became difficult to obtain and the amount of time needed to reserve in advance wasn't commensurate with the level of food they served there which can only be described as American Fish/Seafood Bistro. Since none of the wines you listed seem to be exceptional (although I can't say I've had them all) I would stick with the Champault or Regis Minet. But a wine of curiosity at least to me is the Villa Matilde wine from Campania. They are a good producer making an excellent red wine and, over the last few years there have been a number of good seafood restaurants that have sprung up on the Amalfi Coast and it would be interesting to see how the wineries have responded to that.

Havne't been, and I know one of the owners of the restaurant so I wish him luck, and further I had friends who ate there last Sunday and thought it pretty good, but what do you expect in that neighborhood which is filled with places for tourists? I can't think of a single serious restaurant on that strip. It's a wasteland. One has to cross Third Avenue to find anything good and there still ain't much. I haven't seen the place but I heard it is Balthazarish, although that might speak to the menu more than the decor. But if that's the case, it sounds like they are looking for overflow from the W Hotel etc.

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Cabrales - I'm not a fan of Pur Sang. I'm more of a purist. And you need to drink a bone dry rielsing, not one with residual sugar. Stay away from the wines of Zind-Humbrecht because they are usually very ripe, i.e. sweet. Try and drink wines from Trimbach as they are austere. Gruner Veltliner might be a good wine for you. Mostly an acid bath. When chilled correctly it goes great with icy oysters. Does Aqua Grill have their list on line?

Cabrales - No you have to sit at the oyster bar and chat up those guys, the ones who shuck the oysters. The waiters and waitresses don't know anything. And I find that they are surly to boot. And the heralded wine list is overrated, although you might find a bottle of high end California chardonnay. One would think they would offer wines that are classic European pairings with oysters like a good Muscadet, Riesling, Sauvignon Blanc etc. Another dish I like there very much is the Rice Battered Fried Shrimp w Tartar Sauce. It's perfect for moi.

Cabrales - You have to chat up the servers to see what oysters might have come in fresh that morning. As for the food at the Oyster Bar, it's pretty plain. It isn't prepared by top level chefs. Not to deride the abilities of the people who work there but, they haven't staged at Le Divellac. So as long as you go in there with your eyes open to that fact, you can eat a pretty decent meal there. But that means sticking to simple grilled fish. Of course, the Roasts and Pan Roasts are superb and a throwback to a different era, possibly century. But it's not a gastronomic adventure, unless you happen to hit it right with the oysters.

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Ron - It's the Yiddish word for someone nosy or a busybody.

But your birthday, which like mine, is of limited interest (although your birthday was a round number) and is only just a foil to tell a story about your meal at Ducasse. And I think everyone would love to hear about, and discuss the meal even if it wasn't your birthday. Especially if there was a birthday related dish, wine, special gift, etc.) That would make the story that much more special. And I'm sure everyone would love to wish you a happy birthday in that context.

Liz - You are my hero. I forgot all about the white truffle mousse that is ethereal. How was the 1999 Roumier Bonnes Mares. A wine I own a good chunk of, but one I haven't yet. Is it drinking or has it shut down. Did you buy it off their list or did you BYO? I won't even ask you about the '67 d'Yqueem because I know that must have been fantastic. And the '83 Gentaz? I had some but it was somewhat over the hill so I sold mine. But the '88 Gentaz is one of the best Cote Rotie going.

Robert - I think Italian food (in Italy that is,) is like Italian buildings. There aren't any new ones that have been built since the Colliseum in Rome. Of course that's an exageration but it's kind of true. Italy is a country where they do a great job of getting the best out of small and simple things. And their cucina matches. The French on the other hand are a bunch of Corbusiers, and their cuisine matches. And I think one of the saddest things about cucina Italiano is how the Spaniards have leapfrogged over the Italians to be on the cutting edge of cuisine with a cocina of their own.

"standard Tuscan fare, a cuisine I have a love hate relationship with Tell us about this, if you would, Steve." Robert - There are two aspects to this. One, I am a confirmed Francophile. La stratagia Italiano where they cook food softly to squeeze a few drops of natural gravy out of it is an inferior method of cooking teechnique compared to French cuisine in my opinion. However, occassionaly someone does it well. I can recall a great Caponi braised in a broth redolent with tartufi bianchi at Aimo e Nadia in Milano that was one of the best things I ever ate. But in general, I find that Italian cucina has less flavor than the best French cuisine. That is especially true in this country where the Italian food doesn't really taste Italian. It tastes lilke American food prepared in an Italian style. But still, I enjoy the occassional Italian meal in this town. Of course in Italy this is completely different because what Cucina Italiano really means is to eat the local ingredients. And simple stuff like tomatoes, basil, steaks, mushrooms etc. taste different over there. They taste like, well I guess the best way to say it is of the terroir. In all of my Italian meals in this country I never had a Porcini mushroom that was anywhere as good as the one I had in 1989 in Siena where it was as thick as a steak and simply prepared ala griglia. Or I can eat scamponi that they fly over here but they are much better on the Amalfi Coast drizzled with the local fruity olive oil. Italy has a flavor to it, a scent in the air that makes the food be a certain way. The closest thing to it in the states is the Cal/Ital thing that goes on at some places in the west coast. But NYC doesn't do a good job on that level. In NYC Italian food has been New Yorkified. I thought that Beppe might be different but all it did was prove to me that you needed to have the authentic ingredients. Babbo, Lupa etc.? They can be good, and impress me as molto Italiano. But they are eratic IMO.

Nick - Do you mean if I liked that it was on the menu, or the way it tasted? I didn't taste it but, I liked it being available. As for Kobe beef in general, I've had great ones and I've had ones that didn't seem like anything special. Occassionally Sugiyama has real Kobe Beef from Japan and it is great. Recently I ate Wagyu beef there that was raised in Oregon (we were told the Japanese import it back to Japan) and it was pretty good. But I once bought the kobe beef steaks they have at Balducci's and was very disappointed.

As with so many other households, Sunday evenings usually means the Plotnicki family is off to some restaurant in town. And since my kids are pastamaniacs, the choice is alway Italian. We have a few we frequent, Parma for the most casual dinners, Elio's when we feel a little fancier and Scalinatella for even fancier occassions like birthdays etc. Or occassionaly we take a road trip to a place like Park Slope, the Bronx, Long Island City, or if we really feel ambitious, we head out to South Ozone Park to Don Pepe's Vesuvio Napoletana. But once the weather is nice enough to eat outdoors, we discard any thought we have of eating anywhere else and head straight downtown to Da Silvano. For those who do not know la histoire, Silvano is the one who started the Tuscan dining craze in this town. He must be open for at least 20 years by now, and he has spawned some famous alumni including Pino Luongo who left there to manage Il Cantinori, after which he opened Coco Pazzo, Le Madri etc. But what makes Da Silvano really special is the block he chose to open on which is the east side of Sixth Avenue between Houston and Bleecker Streets. If you don't know the block, the storefronts recede away from the curb as you walk from Houston towards Bleecker, and this allows the three restaurants on the block, Bar Pitti, Da Silvano and the newly opened La Cantinetta, all operated by Silvano, to have good sized outdoor dining spaces while still allowing for wide sidewalks. It's probably the most European public space in the city. And between the crowd at the three restaurants, the people waiting around for tables to be free, and the ordinary foot traffic on Sixth Avenue, it resembles the ambiance of a piazza in Italy more than any other place I know. The fare at Silvano is standard Tuscan fare, a cuisine I have a love hate relationship with. But there always are a few twists with mushrooms, truffles and dishes from a few other regions in Italy. Yesterdays surprise was Kobe Beef from Texas. Still it has an authenticity to it, despite that it all fits in the unqiue style of Silvano which is why it has managed to endure for two decades. One thing I love is that as soon as you sit down, they bring you a piece of butcher paper with paper thin slices of fresh Mortadella that is studded with slivers of pistachio nuts. The perfect thing to nibble on while reading the menu and sipping an apertiff. I ordered an intensely flavored Lobster Soup which the waiter told me is boiled down for three hours. No chunks of lobster meat in it as it seemed to be coarsely pureed. Much different than a bisque or consomme. It gave the impression of a soup that was thickened by potatoes but they were cooked to the point where they disintegrated and were mixed into the soup. Mrs. P had the Fava Beans sauteed with Pancetta, a large soup bowl filled with nothing but firm yet soft beans that were browned from the pan with pieces of crispy pancetta studded within them. For the mains I had a juicy slab of Swordfish Steak served with Roast Potatoes and Spinach sauteed with Garlic. Mrs. P. had the cold lobster salad out of the shell. All delicious cucina Italiana A bottle of 2000 Jermann Cap Martino was excellent. Thick and viscous, maybe a hair too much new oak. But this blend of chardonnay and pinot bianco from the Friuli region of Italy is always an elegant wine. It's too bad there aren't more places in town like Da Silvano. You will never eat a fantastic meal there, but you can eat some really good ones that are very satisfying. But the terrace, now that is something you can't get anywhere else.

It was one of those last minute emails that arrived from a friend. “My wife is out of town Thurs-Sat. Do you want to put together a bunch of guys for a BYO?” Since Thursday was my only free night, I sent a missive to four others. After two positive and two negative responses, I booked a table for four at Eleven Madison Park. Further emails went out, who was to bring white wine and who was to bring red. I emailed everyone the bottles I was bringing and hoped for the best. When you organize a BYO, you never know what types of wines people are going to bring. Sometimes people feel generous, sometimes cheap. Many times you don’t know anything until they whip the bottle out of their bag. The only info I had was an email earlier that day that said “I have a white wine with me.” Gee thanks a lot. Then another diner emailed his contribution, a wine of distinction and I thought maybe we had a chance that this would work out well. The room always looks beautiful at Eleven Mad. Especially when the sun is still shining which it was when I got there at 7:30. One of the others was there already and they sat us at the first banquette in the front room of the restaurant. The others arrived a few minutes later and we began assembling the wines on the table. I almost couldn’t believe my eyes. The wines were, 1999 Joseph Drouhin Montrachet Marquis de Laguiche 1989 Comtes Lafon Montrachet 1961 Giacomo Conterno Barolo Monfortino 1982 Paolo Scavino Barolo 1985 DRC Romanee-Saint-Vivant The DRC was actually brought along as a backup bottle. I had brought the Conterno but the Fat Guy had told me recently that it was time to drink it up. So in case it was already past it, I brought the DRC as a backup. At this point Steve Beckta the sommelier at Eleven Mad came by the table, looked at the wines and I thought his eyes were going to bug out of his head. After a bit of schmoozing, and a bit of discussion about which wines to decant and which ones not to, he was off to open the Conterno so I could taste it first before making a call on decanting it. A few minutes later Steve returned with an open bottle and he poured me a taste in a small glass. How disappointed was I? It was all cloudy and murky and it had the look of a bottle that had seen its best days long ago. I tasted it and it had a little life, but it had the type of volatile acidity one finds in wines that are going to die 3 minutes after being poured. I passed the glass around the table and everybody’s diagnosis to a man was pretty much the same. Except for John Gilman, a more experienced taster than the rest of us. He said, “put it on the side and let’s see if it will be okay with the cheese. Meanwhile open up that DRC.” I love people who have hope. We organized a tasting menu to go with our wines. What follows is a blow by blow of the carnage. Oysters on the Half Shell/Tuna Tartar with Caperberrys I had the tuna. It was more sashimi like than tartar. It was two long thin blocks of tuna with sliced caperberrys. Nice and light, with just enough bite to the capers. A reasonably good way to get started. With it we drank the Drouhin Marquis de Laguiche figuring that a new wine would have lots of zingy acid. A good call on our part. I never find the Drouhin to be a compelling bottle of Montrachet, but it is a fine one that is made in a somewhat austere style for my liking. Which is probably why John loves it so much. Nice citrus on the palate, but not the creamy hedonism that a great Monty can have. Worthwhile revisiting this in 10, 12 and 15 years respectively. Charcuterie Plate Some rilletes, mousse of some sort of foie, and some cubes of what seemed to be ham, possibly parsleyed and served on some frisee lettuce. With it we drank the 1982 Barolo from Scavino. It was a perfect bottle with those Barolo violets on the nose. Beautiful to taste. A testament to the art of wine collecting as this bottle cost $11 on release and gave 20 times the pleasure on this night. The charcuterie was just fair. Sort of non-distinguished among charcuterie plates. Pea Flan with Morels and Jambon Stupendous dish. The intense flavor of buttered peas. I would have been happy if they served me a small tub of the stuff and I could have jumped in head first. And the texture of the creamy and airy flan was well set against the crispy ham and earthy morels. Since we had the Scavino in glass, and then they poured the Lafon, we had a choice of two wines that complemented different aspects of the dish. Lobster poached in a lobster infused broth I didn’t care for this dish much. Half of the table complained that their lobster was overcooked and tough as nails, and the other half were complaining that it was undercooked. A big slice of fennel bulb was sitting alongside the lobster meat (I hate fennel.) But the Lafon Montrachet was outstanding. What a nose, like a big cup of buttered popcorn. If you like your chardonnay opulent this is a good choice. It was drinking well, well along in its maturity. The rap on Lafon is that the wines are good right out of the box but they never get better. Same here. Terrific this night but not getting any better. I should add that the purists at the table didn’t prefer this bottle. Though they had no complaints as to its quality, it wasn’t the style they prefer and they announced that if they had other bottles (which they didn’t) they would put them up for auction. Roasted Loin of Pork and Braised Pork Belly The belly was moist and delicious. But the loin was dry and overcooked. Dommage. But the Romanee-Saint-Vivant was outstanding. Not quite mature, it needs another 5 years or so. It has an earthy, mushroom-like quality to it that was tight on it first being poured, but expanded and withered away as the wine opened up. For a great vintage, DRC’s work that year doesn’t seem to be as of high a caliber as other classic years like ’78, ’90 or ’96. There’s a hole in this wine somewhere, those it’s hard to pin down. It won’t be until it is fully mature that it will be obvious, or it will resolve during the ageing process. But even though I am picking nits, it’s a huge mouthful of vibrant pinot noir. The cheese course was up next. But in anticipation of it being served, Gilman asked for the wine list and actually ordered two more bottles of wine. We had already drank four bottles, we had the ’61 Barolo in the wings, and that maniac ordered two more bottles. And there were only four of us there and seven bottles of wine! My lord. 1974 Sterling Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve 1997 Huet Vouvray Moelloux Cuvee Constance But first the Conterno. Here is why wine is amazing. They gave us a small pour and the wine was now clear. It seemed like I had shaken it up in the taxi and that is why it was all murky and disjointed. Then a taste. Rocket fuel! What a monster of a wine. Now the wine was a masterpiece of old school Barolo wine making with cherries, berries, violets, cloves and that amazing earthiness that good Barolo has. Then they poured us the Sterling, and it was a perfect example of traditional California Cabernet Sauvignon. Just an amazing amount of ripe and fresh fruit. As I had squirreled away a bunch of wine from earlier in the evening, I now had all four red wines set out in front of me and I was working them over in a systematic fashion. And if the proof is in the pudding, I finished the glasses in the following order. DRC first, Conterno second, Scavino third and I left a small amount of Sterling in my glass. Then they showed up with dessert and the Cuvee Constance. I got the Apple something or other. The Constance was great. A bit thin as it’s a young wine. It should pick up a bit of viscosity with some bottle age. But it was smooth, especially for a wine that is only five years old. One would expect it to have a little more heat on the palate. All in all a spectacular evening. But 100% due to the phenomenol wines. The food hardly played a role and to be honest, was quite a number of notches below the quality of the wines. Wines like that need chefs who are thinkers. Ones who would brood over what to cook to make the perfect pairing. But alas this is New York City and not a place like Roanne.

"That raises a good "chicken or egg" question. Did a chef first play with it and ask NR if they could supply it, or did NR offer it and give chefs the opportunity to play? " Suzanne - You are asking about the difference between who is responsible and who gets credit. In the annals of foodie folklore, highly unlikely that Mr. Niman will ever get the credit even if he is responsible. Anyway the ingredient alone isn't enough to make a trend, it's the preparation of it that catches on. It isn't that Collichio decided to just put it on the menu, it's that he braised it and served it with a sweet mostarda. Ultimately while your question is an interesting one, in the end I think it's merely anecdotal, and is like asking whether it was Mel Brooks idea (or someone else associated with the show) to have Nathan Lane play Max Bialystock or did Nathan read some announcement of the show and call the producers (to be in The Producers ) himself. Soba - Yes Collichio would be responsible for starting the trend, if his version of serving pork belly became as well known throughout the New York food scene as Valenti's lamb shanks became. But that doesn't mean the use of pork belly won't proliferate and he won't get credit. It might be a trend among chefs before it becomes a trend among diners. Valenti on the other hand served a lamb shank that people travelled for. So when it proliferated NYC restaurants, he got the credit.

Wilfrid - Sorry. It is pork belly, which is the cut they use to make bacon I am told. But it is not smoked or cured in any way, it is just braised. Gramercy serves a small sqaure of it, with the fatty part crispy like a suckling pig would be. The rest is fork tender. Eleven Mad served a similar prepartion, but not with mostarda. Nick & Toni's in Easthampton actaully offers my favorite version. They take an entire pork belly and roll it around a stuffing of chopped pork, spinach, parmagian cheese, pine nuts, garlic and spices and tie it like a roast. Then they braise it until almost cooked through, then they finish it in a wood burning pizza oven. It comes out a burnt, caramelized, greasy and heavenly mess but truly delicious. And quite different than any other dish on the market. If you have never had it, Gramercy usually has their version available as a main course in the tavern.

Nina - I don't understand why that would keep anyone from participating. Are their feelings hurt because Soba values certain opinions? Remember, this board is eGullet, not eGalitarianism. Part of what makes this board interesting is how natural hierarchies develop based on people's expertise. For example, for someone to seek out Suvir's opinion on Indian food shouldn't make anyone else feel inferior. And if they do, they shouldn't post here. Soba - Because it becomes fashionable. That isn't to say it has no substance, but a "trend" really speaks to how many people are doing it, not how good what their doing is. Currently a trend to serve fresh bacon has started. Tom Collichio was the first to offer it (at least to my knowledge)and he serves it with an Italian Mostarda. But I ate it at Eleven Madison Park last week, and they offer it at Nick & Toni's in the Hamptons as well. I would bet that in the next 3-4 years it proliferates menus all over the country. In that case, part of what propels that trend is the fact that Niman Ranch is promoting that cut of meat to the restaurants they service. But I don't think it will ever be a trend as big as the lamb shanks because pork just isn't that respected as a meat. The other aspect to it is that people are always looking to do things that are new. People rush to see a movie on release, but if they haven't (and haven't seen it on TV or rented the DVD,) very few people go to see it when it hits the revival houses. Is it because of the "coolness factor?" I guess it depends on what we are talking about but I think that is a poor way of describing it. For example, everybody went to see the movie Monsoon Wedding. Is that because it was trendy? The simple explanation is that it is social. If we go to dinner and have both eaten the fresh bacon at GT, both saw The Producers, both went to see Monsoon Wedding, we'll have a lot more to talk about than if we didn't share those experiences. So I guess the answer to your question is that trends start, and continue because people want to be "au courrant." And they end when they lose their immediacy. I will give you a recording industry example that you or anyone else here could extrapolate anyway you want. The typical CD with a hit single on it has a shelf space lifespan of appx 12 weeks. But if the CD has a second hit single on it that is of the same or better quality than the first one, that has a typical shelf life of 40 weeks. There is some marketing phenomenon that occurs (and maybe Jaybee can speak to this since it's his specialty) that makes a CD last 3 times as long when the dynamic occurs that there is twice as much to talk about. The answer to the question you are asking is within that phenomenon. I just wish I had a better answer for you than to say that there are simply more people talking about it.

"Personally I couldn't give a monkey's but by naming certain people whose comments you would welcome you could be said to be confirming the very arguments of those who worry about eGullet becoming "exclusionary" or whatever." Tony - At the risk of pushing this conversation off topic, can you explain to me why it is that if Soba values certain opinions it excludes anyone else? He didn'task that others shouldn't offer opinions or information, he just asked that a number of posters he respects participate. Would you prefer that he private messaged all those people and the board didn't get the benefit of the writings?

Soba - A trend is something which captures the imagination of the public. Don't ask me why they do. Mostly they are spread through word of mouth, and then the media usually kicks in and makes the trend more mainstream. Of course it happens on occassion that the media reports on something in isolation and they create the trend. But my experience is that is generally not the rule. The media are reporters, they are not in the business of creating things. One of the great trends in this city was the lamb shank craze started by Tom Valenti when Allison on Dominick first opened. At the time, that neighborhood was for pioneers, and a good review by the NY Times started the ball rolling. But the item itself was so unusual, yet approachable, that an incredible number of people ordered it. That propelled it into the heights of culinary greatness because the word of mouth on it was so strong. Most people think that things become popular due to manipulation by the industry that offers it, or the media that discusses it. But I can tell you that if people do not want to buy something, you couldn't force them to buy it even if you put a gun to their heads.