Joe H

Some would argue that there is better Indian in London than in Bangalore. I have not been to IndeBleu yet but I have had several meals at Zaika and Vama, the first of which had a Michelin star when we went. (The chef has moved fro there today.) This was fusion which was extraordinary. Biryani with a flaky pastry crust drapped over the top of the casserole, tikka masala risotto-remarkably personal food from a chef with a very real flair for genius which was awarded the title of London's best Indian restaurant. I cannot remember ever reading about anything other than the food at Zaika which seemed to be its whole focus. In anticipating IndeBleu I would feel a bit better if I didn't even know that ballet had played a part in servers' training or that a table rotated. I can't help but feel this is going to be less about food and more about performance. DC needs Zaika not a studio.

Kansas City, Chicago, New York, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas and a host of others have the excellence you mention in street food but not D. C. unless you consider which Bilrus suggested, ethnic. With this I believe there are only a handful of North American cities which are strong and diverse including NY, SF, DC, LA, Chi and Toronto. Key word for this, for me, is diverse. Washington scores well on this, NOLA, the TX cities, KC do not. Reminiscing About DC Long Ago: But DC once did have exactly the kind of food you note that Philly is strong in. But this was a long time ago. In my very first post on this thread I mentioned Benny's on the Maine Avenue wharf in the '40's and '50's with fried perch sandwiches stacked four or five inches high on Wonder bread (you could smell the bread being baked while sitting in the bleachers at Griffith stadium) with homemade mayonnaisey cole slaw and Evangeline hot sauce served with thick cut french fries cooked in pure lard-almost identical to what Bryant's serves on Brooklyn ave in KC! Benny's wasn't the only place. There was also the Shrimp Boat on Benning road and, if I really start thinking about it, maybe 8 or 10 more that were legitimately good. None of this remains today. Certainly not Horace and Dickey's which some claim is Boyd's/Benny's second or third coming. Despite all of the press in the Post and the major feature in Potomac several years ago I seriously doubt that anyone who works for the Post ACTUALLY HAD A FISH SANDWICH AT BENNY'S OR REMEMBERS THE ORIGINAL BOYD'S on H street before they moved to Horace and Dickey's location. Boyd's was outstanding as recently as the late '70's. I remember talking to him once and was shocked at how good his fish sandwich was, which I knew nothing about until stumbling by his carryout. I told him that it reminded me exactly of what my parents used to take me to eat on Maine Avenue in the '50's. He laughed and said that he MANAGED Benny's in the '50's! DC had legitimately good steak and cheese subs, too. No, not a cheesesteak, really quite different from Jim's, Pat's or even the White House in AC. But a "steak and cheese" such as what Hungry Herman's sold on Knox road in College Park in the '60's and '70's or could be found at the Cadillac on Rhode Island Avenue. At some point Washington succombed to Philly's promotion of its cheesesteak and the "steak and cheese" fell out of favor or, at the least, was no longer promoted or "admitted" to by anyone as legitimately good on its own. Besides, with lettuce, tomatoes, mayonnaise and pickles how could the steak and cheese itself even be tasted let alone grilled onions? But the overall glop was seriously satisfying. DC's third best sandwich ever was served on University Blvd. in Wheaton at Jerry's Sub Shop. The ORIGINAL Jerry's which moved from Kennedy street NW (a block from Weihle's, down from the Alpine where Link Wray became notorious for Jack the Ripper) had a moaningly good roast beef sub made on a mediocre Ottenberg roll, sliced roast beef (roasted in house), "secret sauce" (ketchup, mayonnaise and garlic powder) and cheap minced hot peppers which were mixed with pickle juice. Yes, pickle juice. I remember taking bike hikes with friends from Piney Branch and Flower to Wheaton when I was 11 and 12 years old just to eat this sandwich. At some point Abe and his wife sold to Max and his wife and it was only then that Jerry's was "discovered" by the press in the mid '70's. In the late '70's Jerry's was sold to two employees who had worked there while going to MD and they changed almost everything with one of the first things to go being the in house roast beef and the second, the hot peppers mixed in pickle juice. Prior to this DC had also become known for good roast beef sandwiches at Hodges on New York Avenue and a place out in Laurel, Hinckley's, which was locally famous for its "through the garden." A lot of places-newsstands, carry outs, diners sold Briggs half smokes which John B. (from the other board) won a contest in the Post for nominating as DC's unique fast food. Half smokes were good and they were ever popular and ever present; still, Polock Johnny's on East Baltimore street blew away any DC half smoke but Polock Johnny's is a whole different topic as is "The Block" which then was five blocks and today is, well, a block. I think that ALL of these suffered with the proliferation of McDonald's, Burger Chef, Golden Point, Merrill's, Red Barn, Auto Burger, Geno's, (Ameche's in Baltimore) and ten or twenty other fast food places that sprung up. Some, by the way, were legitimately good, especially McDonald's which advertised "forty five cents for a three course meal" and had fries sliced in house with the skin left on, blanched and fried in 70% animal fat. (Dick's in Spokane, WA is the ONLY place on earth that still has McD original fries. The McD down the street from it struggles while USA Today has noted that Dick's in Spokane is America's second largest independent fast food restaurant behind Atlanta's Varsity-serving McDonald's original food! Note that there is NO relation between the Spokane Dick's and the Seattle Dick's). I'm eliminating the Mighty Mo from this post. That's a whole separate thread since the single best thing that I have ever tasted in my life was my first bite of a Mo with extra sauce around 1954. Although Hot Shoppes started here at 14th and Park road (which my mother worked at in the '30's through the '50's) it spread regionally competing with Howard Johnson's. Locally it competed with Top's Drive Inn's Sir Loiner and Baltimore's Harold's Fat Boy as well as Ameche's Power House and the Varsity out on 40 West. All of these either ripped off or improved on Toluca Lake's original Big Boy. When McDonald's got into the act with their Big Mac, my first bite prompted a laugh at how bad it was. McDonald's by then had progressed to frozen patties while the others had not-yet. McDonald's had a national advertising campaign in 1967 about the time of Charles Whitman climbing the Texas tower to spray forty or fifty students with his high powered rifles. I remember a news bulletin actually interrupting a McDonald's commercial then touting their "improved," uniformly consistent potatoes. Charles Whitman didn't advertise he was going to climb the tower, McDonald's didn't advertise they had abandoned fresh potatoes for frozen! (Forgive my immodesty dear reader-this last sentence is one of my most creative ever in a style long known for excessive hyperbole!) DC also had great fried seafood most prominently at O'Donnell's on Pennsylvania Avenue near the Warner. Just as the previously mentioned Benny's and the Shrimpboat there were countless other carryout fried seafood places with almost all of them in the '50's and '60's using fresh fish, shrimp and so forth. Baltimore still has some of these, DC too, but the fresh seafood is difficult to find these days. The only place that I know of that is similar is Faidley's in the Lexington market which people on here and the other board both constantly rave about. Fifty years ago Faidley's was just one of a score of places just as good that have all but disappeared. Anyway, sometime I'm going to sit down and type an essay and submit it to the Post or somebody for publication because most people either never knew DC like this or have forgotten it if they are old enough to remember it. (It is also therapeutic for me to escape like this!) Washington WAS strong on fried chicken (Peter Pan), fried fish, sub sandwiches, frozen custard (Reindeer in Silver Spring and Polar Bear on GA Ave. at Butternut), ice cream (Gifford's was NOT DC's best-that title was the original Martin's Dairy in Olney in the '50's where cows grazed while you ate ice cream parked in your car sniffing the "fresh" country farm air. Avignon Freres, Wagshal's, University Pastry Shop, Calvert Pastry Shop and others had real homemade ice cream), chocolate chip cookies (YWCA), ribs (yes, ribs at Emory's in Langley Park), Mario's (but the Mario's of THEN not the Mario's of today), cheap pizza (i.e. Pizza Kitchen, Pizza Oven, Pizza Square, Pizza Loven, etc.) and others that have survived and supported other citys' food cultures while all but disappearing from here. Here we apologized for them because they were all we had. Ethnic was chicken chow mein and Mexican was Tippy's Taco House. I think DC lost a lot when we started to grow up. For all the pride I have in our best restaurants I really miss that fish sandwich on the Maine avenue wharf. Joe Heflin

Steve, five or six years ago I sold a ride to Parc Asterix just outside of Paris. Over the several years it took to make the sale I became friends with their manager. I invited him and his wife to join us in Paris for a dinner to celebrate it's opening. While he told me that he would appreciate being able to join us his wife was going to decline. He said that she never ventured into Paris from their suburban home, believing it to be dirty, infested with street crime and horrendous traffic. I was actually shocked! Her image of Paris was not the image I had nor of my neighbors who were jealous when I said that I was flying to Paris on business. (Even though I was usually over and back literally within 24 hours.) But he said that most of his neighbors felt that way, rarely did any of them go anywhere near the city. I told this story to another friend of mine who lived in the 7th arr. He said that it didn't surprise him since most of those who lived outside the city lacked the taste and sophistication to even begin to appreciate anything in the city, let alone relate to it. He even went on to rail against Carrefour and Auchan, the hyperstores that he said threated the very existence of the boulangerie, butcher, wine shop and small market that he stopped at every night on his way home. Even on the other side of an ocean the same attitudes remarkably (to me)flourish. And I didn't mention a word about the attitudes of most Manhattanites to those who live in New Jersey.

Thanks for the nice words. They are sincerely appreciated. I probably have been too "thin skinned" about DC because it was this topic that steered me away from the other board which I decided to leave. It's not that I miss the other board-rather, that I miss many of the people, a number of whom already post on here. I am indebted to that board for allowing me to meet many who are good friends today. I am also sincerely indebted to eG for allowing me a forum to share these friendships as well as to develop new ones. And, to those who moderate on this website, there is tolerance and, I believe, a genuine concern for those who post and care for their hometowns.

Has anyone done this? We stopped off here after several days in Verona. Driving on the autostrada towards Venice my wife spotted the stone walls draped down a hillside not that far from our next exit. Entering it we found that much of it had been restored; in fact condos were being sold from renovated one thousand year old structures while a hotel had been carved out of another, perhaps, Roman era structure. Soave was enchanting! And, despite the American dollar at $1.34 to the Euro (!) a very real bargain in Italy! Quintarelli valpolicella was E34 Euros, Dal Forno valpoicella E46. The hotel, a four star, had a suite (a suite!) for E 110! There were also at least a half dozen restaurants and another half dozen wine shops that I wanted to eat and drink my way through. Only time prevented this. We will return to Soave next year regardless of the Euro. It is that much of an attraction for us. But has anyone been there? Has anyone sampled any of the restaurants or spent any time wandering through the many wine shops?

I would welcome the opportunity to share a glass (or two...) of wine with you sometime. Wonderful, expressive post. Thank you. wwthrills@aol.com

"Miami Danny" you are touching my buttons and I cannot but help respond to you with your combined insistence of the size of Washington at the expense of the more than 5.5 million people who surround it while also discounting these same 5.5 million as contributing to or being part of what most people associate with Washington, D. C. I believe the essence of what you are saying is that the incorporated city of Washington is all that matters and anything outside of this is superfluous. That all culture, all depth, all individuality, all that which I rave about in the hometown I was born in receive nothing from the area outside of this to enhance or even claim to be part of it. For the same reason that Wegman's is strictly a suburban phenominon and, at that, supplants and abuses individual producers and retailers that survive within the city. That big box centers are the nightmare incarnate of the suburbs and the countless, endless supply of cloned outlets of Red Lobster, McDonald's et al litter virtually every commercial block of blighted landscape outside of, say, Eastern or Southern avenue. Individuality is stymied, squashed and discouraged, even unwanted by developers of suburban enclaves of conformity. In short, like so many that live in D. C. and almost every other modern American city whether the suburb is Alexandria, Santa Clarita, Santa Clara or Ft. Lee it pales in the face of all that matters, the city. When I "venture" into D. C. once a week or so to eat, walk, go to the theatre or even, to visit a doctor my neighbors are aghast with mouths open to their belt buckle. Don't I know how dangerous, how dirty, how awful Washington, D. C. is? It is all they can do to muster the courage and strength and daily trek on the Metro downtown and, as soon as work is over, they get the Hell out. Even W has noted he much prefers his Crawford homestead to the blight of D. C. Imagine how I react to this if you can! I find them to be remarkably just like you. In fact so similar that the dissimilarity of a zip code is all that I can glean as a difference. (separating out any political discussion) There are also those who live in Bethesda, in Potomac, Chevy Chase and Germantown and think of a trip to either D. C. or Northern Virginia as many might fear a trip to Baghdad. My sister, who lives in "North" Bethesda, considers Reston to be beyond the nether lands. In fact she won't drive in Northern Virginia believing that drivers on the Beltway are worse there than anywhere else! When I tell her that my neighbors, who don't drive into D. C. unless they have to, because they don't have to go to "North Bethesda" they simply don't go. Ever. For that matter I don't know of a single person in Reston that I can cite for having mentioned to me that they have had dinner at a restaurant in Bethesda in the last, oh, five or six years. The few that have crossed the Cabin John bridge into Maryland did so only because the GW parkway was closed and they had no alternative. (Needless to say they became remarkably, frighteningly lost in the backwoods of Glen Echo.) I have a friend in Crofton, a very good friend, who once lived in Oakton. He goes out to dinner in Baltimore, watches WJZ, roots for the Baltimore Orioles and despite the Washington city limit being closer to him than the Baltimore city limit is convinced that DC no longer exists in his life. God forbid he should drive to Bethesda, or to Germantown, or to Reston. I would submit that he, like my neighbors, is very similar to you as is my sister: they ALL know that I am crazy to go into D. C. after dark! But I do. And I see one of out every 15 cars at Wegman's with Maryland tags, one out of five cars at Neiman Marcus in Tyson's with DC tags, I note that Bob Kinkead opened a second restaurant in Tyson's as did Fabio when he moved from London. Both the Inn at Little Washington and L'auberge Chez Francois have DC roots; Michel Richard still talks about Waterford just as he did when we was still in L.A. When friends have joined us for dinner in Washington (when I drive!) they note what an absolutely beautiful city it is at night. When friends who live in D. C. have come to our house in Reston they've mentioned that Reston is truly beautiful. My friend in Crofton, on a rare and recent visit here, actually admitted that he missed living in Oakton after three glasses of wine. Just as I sometimes miss living near Wisconsin and Porter. Of course, then, I missed living in Silver Spring where I grew up and, when I moved to Virginia felt compelled to apologize to all of my Maryland friends for "crossing the river." My new Virginia friends, then, said they'd never met anyone who had moved form Montgomery to Fairfax county. What all of this verbiage means is that for you, Adams Morgan is the epicenter of all that is good and worthwhile about D. C. And other nearby neighborhoods, too. But like all of those who live around you and may have never been to Adams Morgan nor ever crossed the river for any reason you are missing a lot. Just as they are. Washington is about far more than just what is found in the incorporated city limits. It IS about the Blueridge mountains and the Chesapeake Bay. Perhaps Baltimore is a separate city and separate culture and separate consideration but PART of the Bay belongs to the DC metropolitan area. That part, Charles County, Calvert County and St. Mary's County are among the fastest growing parts of our area. Just as Loudoun, Frederick and Spotsylvania. All places that few people who live there ever go downtown. Just as Danny and so many city "dwellers" rarely leave the city. For me, having lived in the city, in Maryland and in Virginia I still stand by what I said in the first post above: "I am suggesting if you factor in Charleston, Black Olive, Charles County bbq joints, a dozen crab houses from Cantler's to Waterman's to Popes Creek, seafood from Jerry's in Seabrook to the Narrows to Suicide Bridge, the emerging excellence of the VA wineries (in a setting that really is reminiscent of Tuscany) along with the refound excellence of The Inn at Little Washington, The Inn at Easton, the efforts of Restaurant Eve, the potential of CityZen (a REAL credit that he moved back here and not to NY), farmer's markets all over the area, 10-12 or more varieties of sweet white corn, Rucker farm goat cheese (when it was for sale), organic vegetables in the Blue Ridge valley, Sommerfield Farms, Lewes Dairy pasteurized cream and milk and on and on. I am not suggesting, I am saying that WE are on par with anywhere else in America now. We may not have as many world class restaurants but we do have them. And we have the food sources and the markets to buy them." Perhaps we eliminate Charleston and The Black Olive but all of the rest remain as part of our area just as San Francisco claims Chez Panisse and Acme bread (Berkeley), Chicago Le Francais (Wheeling), New Orleans Le Ruth (years ago many called it the city's best restaurant) and Mosca's (both well away from the Quarter) and South Florda includes Norman's in Coral Gables with Miami Beach in the same breath with Coconut Grove. Here there is real excellence in Tysons, Washington (VA), Flint Hill, Easton and elsewhere, surrounding DC and lending to the overall image as does Old Town and Annapolis and Middleburg. I agree that we do not have the depth of four or five other American cities but we DO have the excellence. It just does not stop at Eastern Avenue or the Potomac river.

A "cozy little city" that I was born in 57 years ago and am not going to let you belittle or demean. This is a world class city equal to any other on earth. Whether you want to recognize this or not is not important to me. You can describe us as "small" or a "cozy little city" but frankly this is a definition that exists in your mind and not in reality. I am proud to live here, proud to have grown up here. For the six million plus of us that live in the metro area most of us are truly proud of what Washington, D. C. has become. Several weeks ago I went to my 40 year high school reunion from Montgomery Blair in Silver Spring, class of '64. With a graduating class of about 1,000 most of us still live here. Goldie Hawn, Connie Chung, Ben Stein-I went to school with all of them. Then, forty years ago, D. C. was not thought of as a small town. It is not today. Rather, many, most of them like myself have a great deal of pride in what our graduating class has become part of-one of the greatest cities on earth. When I walk on the Mall or around the Tidal Basin or on Capitol Hill I cannot tell you how grateful I feel for having grown up here. I love this city. A "small city," indeed. My hometown. All six million of us.

Your response is ludicrous. Washington is the fourth largest Metropolitan area in the United States. If we include Baltimore we are the third largest, ahead of Chicago behind only New York and Southern California. With all due respect I assume you have moved here from elsewhere-you should give us a bit of respect for what we have become. We are no longer the little burg" that you may have once thought we were.

While this may be after the fact if you are still in Munich and can get into Tantris-go. It has 19 points (out of 20) from Gault-Millau and two Michelin stars. If you have a rental car, one of the most beautiful places on earth is west of Munich in the mountains in Baierbronn. There are two superb restaurants there including one, Schwarzwaldstube, which is considered by many to be Germany's overall best restaurant. (This means one of the best in Europe since Germany is overlooked by most North Americans.) Also 19 points and with three Michilin stars. Virtually impossible to get into unless you reserve 4 to 6 months in advance although they occasionally have luncheon cancellations and serve the exact same menu. Nearby is the two star, 18 point Bareiss which is outstanding and somewhat easier to get into. Both Schwarzwaldstube and Bareiss are located in hotels each with three or four restaurants. Both are "loss leaders" whose reputations attract Germans and Swiss for dinner and "wellness." Schwarzwaldstube has eight tables and usually 16 to 20 people total that dine there. Bareiss has, I think, ten tables and maybe 25 or so dining. Both have extraordinary wine cellars as well as among the best bars in all of Europe for socializing. They are also virtually unknown in North America. At a dinner at Schwarzwaldstube in September I asked how often Americans visited and I was told, perhaps once every couple of months they would meet one. Still, EVERY member of staff spoke perfect English! This restaurant and Bareiss offer the finest service of any that I have ever experienced anywhere.

And, one day soon, Fabio (or his protege) will win on his first try, Michel and Roberto will receive the recognition they have both long deserved nationally and yourself will have a city that you feel proud that you chose to remain in and make your mark and be recognized for. I should also note here that my sister once had one of DC's 50 best according to Phyllis. Still, despite a bankruptcy, she (and I) are still here, still proud of where we grew up. Today, that which was despair has given way to very real success and, as the city has grown, so have some of us. For all of those who promote DC as a wonderful town for "ethnic" restaurants I am the person, perhaps the only person who will interpret this as a slight. We are about much more than just this. There is very real world class excellence here. Over the years my passport, largely because of my business, has added many pages-over one hundred entrees just in the last eight or nine years. Yet there is not a single city anywhere that I have returned from for business or pleasure that I have preferred over D. C. And dinners at Germany's three star Schwarzwaldstube and Im Schiffchen, Italy's Le Calandre and Dal Pescatore, France's Gagnaire/Ducasse/Arpege, England's Gordon Ramsey on Hospital Road, Spain's Santimaria-all with three Michelin stars-have only told me that we have as good that is set on the table. Not the French Laundry, nor Eiginsinn Farm nor the Herb Farm has anything on us. While we do not have (nor anyone else in North America) the service that the top Europeans do, we DO have the taste, the texture and the creativity equal to their best. All Washington needs is someone to trumpet it as Phyllis Richman once did. The Chronicle got it right. The Post should, too.

Oh, I'm fully and painfully aware that Charleston is Baltimore's only and perhaps arguably "national class" restaurant. Italian, forget it. I was part of the Baltimore contingent at the first CH Lab dinner a few years ago and while I really enjoyed the food I didn't so much enjoy the waiters who I actually thought may paw me if I made eye contact or got up to watch the goings on in the kitchen. But, I'm still interested in trying Maestro with the hope that the servers there are a little less randy. ← I left the other board with over 150 e-mails for future dinners. This is after they deleted a post of mine defending DC from someone who attacked the city. After four years and over 5,000 posts I could not excuse their allowing the attack to remain. If I am too passionate in this thread it is because I know what a restaurant wasteland this was growing up here; today we have something special. Your question about Citronelle along with Maestro hit a nerve. Sorry for so much verbiage but I love this city and what it has become. The other board allowing the attack to remain and deleting my response only reinforced this.

This is really a separate topic for when I have the time to get into it BUT I was born here in '47 and have lived here all of my life both in the city and in Montgomery county, now in Reston. I remember when there were temporary buildings on the MALL, when Saturday night meant driving from Silver Spring to Benny's for a four inch high fresh fried perch fish sandwich and french fries fried in lard at the Maine Avenue waterfront, later to stop at the Krispy Kreme at Georgia and East West when the "Hot" light went on. This was the mid 1950's. Along with O'Donnell's on Pennsylvania Avenue this was the best DC had then. For Italian in the '60's and '70's we went to Baltimore, specifically to Maria's 300 in Little Italy, maybe Vellegia's, maybe Sabatino's. La Salle du Bois was the "cutting edge" French along with San Souci which later opened. Before there was L'auberge Chez Francois he had a restaurant downtown. DC took a step up with Cantina d'italia and later, Lion d'Or opened. Phyllis Richman (who grew up here and scored brownie points with me personally because she remembered Jerry's Sub Shop when it was on Kennedy St., NW with Weile's nearby (before both moved to Wheaton and Langley Park respectively) took over at the Post from a food snob whose name I long ago forgot. DC grew and she did too. Over the years she became one of the very best in America. As she did she began to promote the restaurants in this city, giving them attention sometimes on a national plane that they had not previously received. In the late '70s' Roberto Donna came here as a 20 year old (or thereabouts) and started at Romeo and Juliet. Later he opened Galileo on P street, then Francesco Ricchi started I Ricchi and DC, for the first time, had two national class Italian restaurants. Along with Lion d'Or this city actually had "cuisine" and restaurants that neither Phyllis or anyone else had to apologize for. At some point Washington became known nationally for ethnic restaurants. San Francisco and New York based organizations and writers "allowed" this since it was not a threat nor a challenge to them or their "talent pools." (i.e. chefs such as Roberto who have those who grow in his kitchen stay on and move to their own restaurant, carrying the level of excellence they learned from him.) As long as DC did not win the Rising Star award, as long as a Washington chef did not win the national Beard award (I may be wrong but I do not believe that Jean Louis ever won this.), the desciples of Roberto, Michel and Fabio could be lured to the city where they were told they would receiv more recognition and have a better chance. It's permissable for them to win regional awards (DC usually has three or four of the five regional nominees every year!), but counterproductive for Beard to have DC challenge NY while SF is the other coast. Phyllis promoted/educated/screamed the excellence of Jean Louis. Just as you note that the Chronicle does today with their restaurant and food scene. DC does NOT do that. And, I believe they should. Because with the three restaurants I noted above along with the talent of several others we are on the cusp of being one of America's four best restaurant cities. With Baltimore we are the third lagest population base in America. Without Baltimore, DC is now OVER six million people, more than the Bay area. I am suggesting if you factor in Charleston, Black Olive, Charles County bbq joints, a dozen crab houses from Cantler's to Waterman's to Popes Creek, seafood from Jerry's in Seabrook to the Narrows to Suicide Bridge, the emerging excellence of the VA wineries (in a setting that really is reminiscent of Tuscany) along with the refound excellence of The Inn at Little Washington, The Inn at Easton, the efforts of Restaurant Eve, the potential of CityZen (a REAL credit that he moved back here and not to NY), farmer's markets all over the area, 10-12 or more varieties of sweet white corn, Rucker farm goat cheese (when it was for sale), organic vegetables in the Blue Ridge valley, Sommerfield Farms, Lewes Dairy pasteurized cream and milk and on and on. I am not suggesting, I am saying that WE are on par with anywhere else in America now. We may not have as many world class restaurants but we do have them. And we have the food sources and the markets to buy them. I believe the San Francisco Chronicle has assumed the correct role. I expect the same of the Washington Post. I also expect the same of the DC government who similarly have overlooked our emerging local excellence. But just as Phyllis Richman, a native Washingtonian grew with this city, so can someone else. We are worthy of being promoted.

Citronelle today has absolutely nothing in common with any of the restaurants that Michel Richard has been involved with. It is far beyond what Citrus was on West Melrose when he was there in the mid 90's. I would argue, at a minimum, that it is on par with Gary Danko, Daniel and others. I believe Maestro to be the best Italian restaurant in the United States. (It can be argued that Fabio's cuisine is "grounded" in tradition and has evolved from there.) Having had dinner at the three Michelin star Le Calandre in Rubano on Saturday night (for the fifth time) I am convinced that Fabio is Massimiliano's equal. Coincidentally, the Calandre chef/owner is the youngest three star ever and Fabio is the same age. Further, their respective presentations in many ways are remarkably similar. On another board I ranted that it was a crime that Fabio did not win the Beard rising star award despite two nominations. (Tom Sietsema who chaired the committee would have an opinion on this different from mine.) I would also add that it is a crime that Michel has not won the national Beard award. But this is more about politics and the New York based organization and less about talent and creativity. (Last I should note that as a native born Washingtonian who is immodestly chauvinistic to here that I strongly believe that D. C.'s absolute best restaurants can compete with any American city's three best-New York, Chicago and San Francisco included. Having travelled over 100 days a year for almost 25 years throughout North America nd Europe I am convinced of this.) Along with Roberto Donna in his Laboratorio (which is entirely different from Maestro) Washington has three world class restaurants. Each is different in its own way and offers its own unique experience. For what it's worth Roberto in four weeks will be on Iron Chef challenging Morimoto. One of the best dishes I have ever had in my life was a preparation of diver scallops in the Laboratorio. One of the best soups I have ever had is the crab and corn bisque at Citronelle. Perhaps the best risotto I have had anywhere in the world is at Maestro. Fabio flies his violane nano and carneroli in from Alba-it is the same that Massimiliano uses at Le Calandre. Flip several coins while also considering that your own Charleston is a national class restaurant only a short rung below the three above. Bocaccio, Alberto's, there is nothing in Baltimore that could even begin to give you an idea of the excellence at DC's two Italian landmarks. And hope that Sietsema begins to promote DC which I personally view as part of his role. We have the excellence that is worthy of this now.

One of the best meals I have ever had was at El Raco de Can Fabes on a night when Santimaria was hosting a visiting two star chef at the table next to us. I asked to be served the same dinner as he and 17 courses later it-up until then-was the best dinner of my life. We returned four days later with two other couples and asked for the same dinner. It was not "exactly" available and we ended up with what amounted to his "classic" which lacked four or five of the most exquisite and complex courses of the first evening. Overall, my wife preferred our dinner at Le Calandre more last year than this. There were a half dozen outstanding dishes on that including "fish and chips Venezia style" which was an extraordinary adaptation which included him brewing his own beer to accompany it. This year seemed to be more creative in a diffrent way and included more play with "horizontal" texture and with NO PLAY with layering flavor and texture in a glass or container. Last year there were at least three courses which included three to five layers in a 2 to 3" wide glass approximately 3 or 4 inches deep. These variously incorporated contrasting texture, temperature as well as sweet/sour, sharp/smooth, etc. sensations as well as "crunch followed by smooth warmth" if you will. Then, we were instructed to take the spoon and "dig" down to the very bottom of the container and then pull the spoon straight up so that approximately equal amounts of each layer was on the spoon. These were all extraordinary, all "Great" dishes. (In America I've had two similarly styled dishes at Maestro outside of Washington, D. C.) We had none of these on Saturday. Rather, as you experienced whatever "layering" of ingredients/textures, etc. was done on a flat or shallow plate with, for me, a different reaction than what I had experienced the previous year. The dinners were totally different from each other and seemed to actually go in different directions, attempting to accomplish different sensations. These "layered" flavors in glasses were real strengths of Massimiliano as was an extraordinary black risotto that he served as part of last December's dinner. I would not necessarily say that for myself this dinner was "less" than last year's, rather that it was different. Still, an extraordinary experience that I personally believe is the equal of any in Europe today. Several of these layered glasses would have put it over the top for me. I'm sorry that I don't have any photos and have forgotten (if I even knew!) the descriptions. The "spaghetti carbonara" was not part of last year and along with a course which incorporated beets, I thought the two best of the evening.

Just an absolutely wonderful response!

Sostanza, as noted above is a superb steak house known for its bisteca fiorentina. This is the oldest operating restaurant in Florence located on a narrow street just behind the Excelsior. There are only 10 or 12 tables and everyone is cramped together in the small room. Americans tend to be seated with other Americans for what is a very real adventure in dining unlike anything in the States. In back is a closet size kitchen with a grill and butcher's block where steaks are cut fresh. Three inch thick steaks are pounded and then grilled over grates (wood?) for ten or more minutes. Sides include two kinds of beans and spinach with olive oil. The best dessert is a "meringue cake" which is off the menu but extraordinarily fattening and good. The steaks ARE comparable to Luger's, they are legitimately THAT good. Also, even with the dollar so weak to the Euro, a relative bargain. Wine is limited but very fairly priced. Although most steaks are listed as individual cuts, as noted above, they will grill especially thick 3" + steaks on request. A very REAL find that you MUST reserve for, at least a week in advance even for a weeknight. I also like Il Pizzaiola also mentioned above. Still, with visits to about 25 to 30 restaurants over the years in Florence, Sostanza is the one that I would and have returned to every time. Along with Venice's Alle Testiere, for the money and for the style, experiences and excellence that is unique to Italy and cannot be found on this side of the Atlantic.

I have as much passion for hamburgers, pizza and fried clams as I do for top end restaurants and wine. I have literally driven from DC to New Haven, eaten pizza and driven back home. I've also built business trips around dinner to take advantage of an opportunity. A post of mine on the Int'l board today notes that I drove 3700 km in five countries with 8 or 9 meetings in six or seven days (eating a lot of sandwiches, even McDonald's in Germany!); yet I rewarded myself with a serious dinner on the last night even though I went by myself. Coincidentally I've also done trips in Germany looking for the best bratwurst! But I mention all this because I am really obsessed with food and have been that way since I was born 57 years ago. I also have a business where I have travelled for almost 25 years in America and Europe over 100 days a year and have tried my best to indulge my love of food. I also entertain a lot. I've found that most of the people who I go out with appreciate and love excellent food as much as I. I am not talking about the 8 or 9 national chain steak houses at Tyson's but rather on one level Maestro, on another Shamshiry which is excellent in its own way. I have taken the very same people to both. I know that not everyone has had the same experiences as I but in my business perhaps I've just been fortunate to have clients who become friends and share my passions. I suspect that many others who entertain would answer similarly.

Dennis was a waiter who spoke particularly good English. He told me that he had worked for two years at the White Barn Inn in Kennebunkport. He had dark hair, probably in his late 20's, but had a great deal of enthusiasm. You know, I'm not exactly certain IF he was a waiter! But he was superb and could have just as esily been the maitre d' or the sommelier. A wonderful ambassador for this restaurant who helped put the dinner over the top for us. I agree with you about notes and photos. Honestly, I personally would just feel uncomfortable doing this; for me I want to experience the dinner and not focus on reporting on it. When someone else does it, I am deeply appreciative. I have not been to Tantris in Munich but a very good friend of mine ("whose opinion I trust") has and really enjoyed it. This same friend has been to Calandre four or five times and most of the three stars in France. This is a post of mine from another board for a recent visit to Schwarzwaldstube: http://www.chowhound.com/boards/intl/messages/32412.html Both Schwarzwaldstube and Bareiss are in Baierbronn which MUST be one of the most beautiful places on earth. I went to Bareiss in May as part of a five or six country driving trip for business and wanted to reward myself for driving 3700 km in seven or eight days. Bareiss was superb! Perhaps as good (and "correct") of sevice as I have ever had in a restaurant in my life. And, I dined alone at "a table for one" (me) on a Saturday night! In a restaurant where, perhaps, one American a month comes for dinner every member of staff spoke perfect English! The same was true at Schwarzwaldstube. I built my trip around the Bareiss reservation. For Schwarzwaldstube I was told that for Saturday dinner one should reserve AT LEAST six months in advance. For a weekday at least several months and occasionally a space opens at lunch on a weekday when they serve the exact same menu. If you do go you should stay either there or Bareiss and go to both restaurants. Each is a "loss leader" for their respective hotels with each having another three or four restaurants where most go to who stay there. In America I would describe the rooms in both as being very similar in style and comfort to The Inn at Little Washington but at approximately one half the price. Dinner at each has Prix fixe about E 125 to E 135; both have superb wine lists and are fairly priced (considering the Euro!). Bareiss has a fantastic cellar that you can tour. Similar to Calandre you will find that each table for two is really a table for four and each table for four is really a table for six. Additionally each of the eight tables at Schwarzwaldstube have a smaller side table for wine service. Bareiss wine service incorporates exquisite Topazio Portuguese crystal decanters that they also sell in a shop for about E 500 to 700. I collect wine decanters and these are among the most beautiful I have seen. I have no shame sometimes: I'll order a prix fixe and then ask for an additional course if its not art of this! By the way, I've also found that Italian in Germany can be exceptional in a number of places. Further, the image that most Americans (I live near Washington, D. C. in Reston, VA) have of the best German restaurants is as far from reality as could be. Successive dinners at both the three star Schwarzwaldstube and the two star Bareiss, for me, would equal much of the rest of Europe. I don't mean to use so much hyperbole having just raved about Calandre but Schwarzwaldstube is also a world class restaurant that probably has the best dessert course (s)I've ever experienced. Your photos of the Italian invite a first person comparison!!

CityZen is NOT a four star restaurant...yet. This is a report of my own from another board in early October: http://www.chowhound.com/midatlantic/board...ages/48684.html I agree with many of the things that Sietsema said noting that it is a work in progress. I also think that the particular enjoyment of this restaurant depends at least in part on where one sits, particularly the table I note in the title. But several dishes are particularly good and the service, overall, had some bright moments. There were also some inexcusable failures in wine service. Still, this is not now Citronelle, Maestro nor Laboratorio. But the potential is there; I am certain the Mandarin understands this. I am also certain that the former chef de cuisine from the French Laundry (who still wears the jacket) understands it as well. Most important it is a very real credit to our city that he returned here given his accomplishments in Napa. I WANT him to succeed; I WANT him to realize the fourth star. A return visit now should yield a different result from when my wife and I went over two months ago. And a visit two months from now, for me, would have the expectation of a four star experience. Anything short of this, then, would be very real cause for concern.

I'm not certain that I understand your comment about restaurants attracting a "certain riche clientel that gets on (my) nerves" but Maestro is one of the best restaurants in the United States. I am also curious about your comment including Danko's since I would consider this is league with both Maestro and Citronelle locally. I would also note that restaurants on the level of the above three are intended to be a different type of an experience than 2941 is.

My wife chided me because I did not take notes on Saturday at Le Calandre nor, despite having a digital camera, did I take photographs. Were it not for your report I would be angry at myself for not taking the time. Thank you! Your words and your photos are much appreciated. We did not have the "creative" prix fixe at Calandre, rather the "classic." It is extremely interesting to see the various dishes that comprised your's since several appear and sound very similar. Curiously, there was not a risotto course as part of the classic and I agree about his talent for this based on past dinners dating back about four or five years to the first. In fact I bought 2 kilos of the violane nano at his "deli" across the street to bring home. That deli, by the way, had a fantastic cheese with barolo whose name escapes me. The single best course of our dinner was, for lack of a better description, his version of spaghetti carbonara. Without taking notes I have no idea what was in it but when I suggested the best version of this that I had ever had Dennis (a superb ambassador for this restaurant) said that this was how he would describe it in English for taste. (I should note that Dennis also has a great line in his presentation of the pigeon, "fresh from San Marco Square.") We have not been to Da Vittorio-yet. We have been to Alle Testiere a number of times over the years having also promoted this restaurant on another board. It is one of my favorites in Italy. (A third restaurant that I have raved about-totally dissimilar from either Testiere or Calandre is Sostanza in Florence which has superb bisteca and a fantastic "meringue cake" which is off the menu. The oldest trattoria in Florence and quite "plain" yet on par with Peter Luger for steak. In fact virtually everyone of the thirty or so seats will have someone eating this. In the closet sized kitchen three inch thick cuts are grilled over charcoal after being cut to order and loudly "flattened" before grilling.) The desserts at Da Vittorio appear to remind me of a German three star, Schwarzwaldstube in Baierbronn. Have you been there? He has three dessert courses totalling about seven or eight dishes along with another 10 or so individual bites for the final "fattening." For what it's worth I actually much prefer Le Calandre to Dal Pescatore. The latter had several dishes that I really enjoyed. In particular a rather basic one was her saffron risotto but the flavor was especially intense-she grows her own saffron! (I also remember having a rental car and leaving the window open several inches since it was a hot summer day. When I returned three or four hours later there was a layer of chicken feathers over the front seat and dashboard. This helped explain a particularly exquisite chicken dish which was one of the courses!) Still, the unique contrast of flavors, textures and temperature (particularly the amuse you noted-the tomato filled one was an "explosion," a literal burst of flavor!) along with unusual combinations and very personal style, for me, place Calandre on par with anything I have had in the past several years. Not just in Italy but in Europe. I have not been to La Pergola in Rome either yet this is a restaurant that also intrigues me as does Uliassi in Senigallia. The latter I'll find a way to visit this spring. Thanks again.

We went last night. This was our fourth visit over the past five or so years. To the best of my knowledge I am the first person to mention this restaurant on any message board with the first mention three years ago when I posted on Chowhound and he, then, had two stars. It has been interesting since we've had a chance to watch him evolve. My wife and I saw you and your friend at the rear table but we did not want to interfere with the mood of the evening. We were the first to arrive just as they opened at 8:00. I am not going to note any details of the dinner since I know that you took notes while I did not. We had his "classic" tasting menu which I believe is the same that you did. We also shared a '99 Giramonte and a '98 Zenato Amarone. In general, to summarize my opinions, I thought the meal was superb although there were several dishes on our visit last December that I missed and wished had been included. For myself the single best dish was what I would loosely call his spaghetti carbonara but I'll let you explain this. I also thought there were three of what I call a "Great" dish, meaning that it is extraordinary and among the best of its kind anywhere. I should also confess that I love this restaurant and regard it as not only the best in Italy but also one of the best in Europe. So, an apology for my bias. In part this is because I've been able to watch him grow. Four or five years ago not all of his combinations worked (last night we thought a couple didn't either). But the misses now are minimal and the successes are extraordinary. Anyway, I'm saying too much and want to leave the rest for you. Take care. Joe Heflin

Trattoria Laguna is indeed intriguing. The Apple discussion raved about it, a very real discovery worth going out of the way for. If you have not been to Calandre before seriously consider his E 150 tasting menu which runs about 12 or so courses. Also, across the street is a shop where he sells many of the raw foods as well as Murano glass, etc. that are used in the restaurant. Last December his dessert which was part of the prx fixe ran about seven or eight courses itself. It was remarkable perhaps as impressive a presentation as any I have had. By the way, we'll be there in the next few days also. An annual December pilgramage.

Given that Jeff Black once worked at Kinkead's (chef de cuisine?)and the success of many of his dishes in his Bethesda restaurant this is an opening to be sincerely anticipated. Addie's, his first restaurant on the Pike, has long been one of Montgomery County's best restaurants. His "Vermillion Bay Seafood Stew" at Black's is a contender for DC's best seafood stew in league with Eve's bouillibasse. In short this is a restaurant to be taken quite seriously, easily a destination as well as a local restaurant. Zora, I wish you the best and look forward to visiting you there soon. I suspect many on this board are going to be quite surprised at the level of his excellence and the impact this should have on the DC scene.