Jim D.

Good point, Kerry. The lower temp sounds as if it is what I am looking for (as it is really marshmallow fluff that I am trying to make, but without dried egg whites--I bought some highly recommended ones from Amazon, and they smell and taste "off" to an unacceptable degree).

Having discovered that Greweling's recipe for pipeable marshmallows is meant for marshmallows piped onto parchment while the mixture is still hot, I am still working on pipeable marshmallows as a filling in a bonbon (the complication arises mostly from the fact that the temperature cannot be too high because the marshmallow will melt the chocolate shell). I'm making some progress, with a successful attempt yesterday. But I'm puzzled by the discrepancies I find in the temp to which the syrup is to be cooked. Greweling says 252F (250 in his at-home book), and he (and Wybauw) are the only sources I can find who take the syrup that high. Martha Stewart, Alton Brown, the Serious Eats site, Nightscotsman (who contributed the well-known recipe for strawberry marshmallows to eGullet), etc., call for somewhere in the 234-240 range. David Lebovitz is the only one I found who gets close to Greweling, calling for 245. If the soft-ball stage is the goal, then 252 seems quite high. In Part I of this marshmallow thread, someone is told pointedly that the 250 range is too high. For those who have made Greweling's marshmallows, did you have issues with his comparatively high temperature? For my goal, a lower temperature keeps the marshmallow softer (good for piping purposes) and also helps with the issue of getting the temp down to the 80-85 range quickly enough so that the gelatin does not have so much time to thicken and make piping impossible.

The one I saw in use at Jinju Chocolates in Las Vegas was from Chef Rubber. They are on the pricey side (but isn't everything in the chocolate world?), but, more important, they weren't the right size for me--I like rectangles and those were either too small or much too large. The website says lots more sizes are coming soon, but when I asked, I was told to put in a request for a special project (we know what that probably means). So I did a search and found a mold closer to what I wanted on Bakedeco at a considerably lower price. It doesn't save time over pouring the caramel into a frame, but the caramels I finally made today (with the texture I was looking for) would have been horribly distorted by the time I finished cutting them (that may well be related to the one doing the cutting!). Needless to say, I would never cut them on my guitar, though some (braver) people do. The ones made in the mold and now dipped remained rectangular in shape through the whole process yet are soft in texture. I watched the process in Vegas, and it was obvious that, with practice, removing the perfectly shaped caramels is fast and easy. The Chef Rubber mold in use there made small rectangles, and I know you tend to prefer smaller chocolates, so it might be worth looking into (Bakedeco has a small cube as well as the rectangle). On the caramel issue more generally, do you also find that a few degrees makes all the difference in the world? Do you have trouble achieving consistency from batch to batch?

What is an example of a Maillard caramel? How does it differ in technique?

Ruth, I'm not entirely sure of the difference. Following Lebovitz's recipe, I made a caramel (he says cook it to 310F--which is a rather light caramel), then I added hot cream and cooked the mixture to the desired temperature. This is mostly the same as Notter's recipe and many others. I am at an altitude of about 1400 feet. I checked the charts on that, and it should make only a little difference.

I had decided to learn to make chewy caramels (to be dipped in chocolate) this summer and am looking for some insight from those who are more experienced. I know that it is the final temperature of the caramel that determines whether it will work or not. I used David Lebovitz's recipe, which calls for cooking the caramel to 260F/127C. I knew that was higher than anyone else recommends, but it's David Lebovitz, so who am I to doubt? After seeing Jin's silicone caramel mold at the eGullet workshop in Las Vegas in May, I found one (less expensive), so was using that to make nice neat pieces. Attempt #1: I poured the 260F caramel (also tested in cold water to check the consistency) into the mold. When I removed the hardened pieces, "hardened" hardly begins to describe how firm they were--tooth-breakingly hard. Attempt #2: I added a little skim milk and melted the pieces from the previous try. Meanwhile I had checked multiple recipes, including Peter Greweling's (239F/115C recommended) and Kerry Beal's (244 to 250F / 118 to 121C), and this time stopped at about 245F/118C. Better, but still too firm--and worse, stuck to my teeth. Attempt #3: Again, melted down the caramel. This time went to about 240F/115.5C. I decided to add some cocoa butter to help firm up the finished product (an idea from Jean-Marie Auboine, also at the Vegas workshop). This try was much better, but the caramel was too soft to hold its shape after removal from the mold. And, quite unexpectedly to me, the bottoms of each piece stuck to the silicone mold. Who knew? So a quick online search revealed that oiling the silicone may be necessary. Attempt #4: After the messy job of oiling the mold (using cooking spray and wiping most of it out), I began again. This time I went to about 242F/117C. These came out of the mold without sticking (though they had to be patted dry from the oil), and I just finished dipping them in dark chocolate, topped with some Himalayan salt I have been waiting to use for something. In spite of this final success (at least it appears so at this point), I have to ask: Is making "stand-alone" caramels really this difficult? Do 2 degrees make that much difference? Of course, I realize that taking the temperature of a boiling liquid is a very iffy proposition--moving the Thermapen around the pot shows how the temp varies from place to place. And there is the residual heat once the pot is removed from the stove (I tried dipping it in cold water, but that cooled off the caramel too much to be poured into the mold). Testing by dropping some caramel in water seems inconclusive as the firm ball stage covers a range of temperatures, and meanwhile the caramel in the pot continues to cook, even if it's off the heat. At this time of year I have time to experiment, but in the midst of Christmas production, there can be no recooking of caramel three times and waiting for it to harden in order to determine if it is right for dipping. I use Rose Levy Beranbaum's caramel pot. It's narrow enough that even a small batch is deep enough for a thermometer to register. But it's not a particularly heavy pot. Might that be an issue? Any suggestions or insights?

@pastrygirl I don't think it will be possible to get a look at the bakery for a while (the owner today mentioned end of July as the current goal--I don't think he is at the installing of display cases yet). We are going to meet as soon as the place is habitable. Wouldn't selling by the piece require a humidity-controlled cabinet? I don't know anything about bakery storage, but I don't imagine humidity is such a concern for bakers as it is for chocolatiers. It's a little insulting that someone wanted to put your caramels in her own packaging. Even I would draw the line at that.

If you are in the U.S., it depends on which state you live in. It also depends on where you are making your product. As I understand it, very few states allow products made in home kitchens to be sold retail (or sold wholesale to be retailed by somebody else). You have to be in a professional kitchen that has been inspected. My state is an exception and I had my kitchen inspected (that is another saga for another day), so I am allowed to sell anywhere. I must include an ingredient list, which also states the net weight of the contents and, of course, an allergen list (the supervisor in my area said, "I know pinenuts are not actually nuts, but you have to list them"). I also had to provide a recipe for every single filling I sell. So-called "cottage food operations" are another matter--no inspection necessary but you have to include a notice that the product was made in a non-inspected kitchen and cannot sell it anywhere except from your home or at a farmers' market. Needless to say, there are also various approvals and licenses required by the city or county in which you operate. As you can see, I have done a lot of research on this topic.

I have been selling my chocolates on a consignment basis in a couple of places in town. I provide boxes of 6 or 12 pieces sealed (not vacuumed) in individual bags and the seller refrigerates these. This means 6 or 12 pieces must be bought at a time. I provide a display card showing what the boxes contain and also a list of ingredients. In one case I provided an extra box opened to display what the sealed boxes look like; when a space is not air conditioned overnight, each night that display box must be refrigerated, at least in the summer. I just learned that the owner of a French bakery about to open is interested in the chocolates. I am trying to get my thoughts together before contacting him. I can imagine that in a bakery situation, where customers are purchasing one item at a time, they might well expect the chocolates to be sold by the piece as well. If that is also the thinking of the baker, I can't imagine how this might work, though obviously there are many chocolate shops where individual pieces are displayed and sold, I assume in low-humidity cases of some sort. I can't see how this would work in the absence of such special display cases. Even if I found decent clear-top boxes holding perhaps 2 pieces, the humidity would almost certainly ruin them. Has anyone else had experience in a similar situation, and if so, how did you deal with it? Any thoughts will be appreciated.

I know, but I wanted to know if its invert-sugar properties are essential. Most recipes for marshmallows seem to include honey, though Melissa Coppel's includes neither honey nor invert sugar.

Greweling uses honey in his marshmallow recipes. I thought the taste of honey overpowered other flavors (such as vanilla) and would like to omit it. Should I replace it with an equal amount of glucose (in addition to the glucose already called for), or is the invert-sugar effect of honey crucial to marshmallows? I should note that in his first book he includes invert sugar in addition to honey, but does not in his at-home volume.

I can corroborate what you advise. I oiled the wires yesterday and the marshmallow layer did not stick, but I recount the other issues in the Greweling thread.

I will be experimenting as well. Others have said (there is a thread on eGullet on pipeable marshmallow) that the secret is to stop beating the mixture sooner--though how one determines "sooner" remains a puzzle. It is a great temptation just to use marshmallow fluff from the grocery store (even Greweling calls for it in his at-home book). I have gotten the impression that in Greweling's second edition he calls for using egg whites in the pipeable marshmallow, but I would prefer not to use eggs.

I didn't get a response to my question under the marshmallow topic, so I'll try again in the Greweling discussion. I have more info since completing his marshmallow recipe. I'm making a variation on the "Hot Chocolate" two-layer marshmallow recipe. I made his marshmallow recipe and spread it (with considerable difficulty) in a frame. I think I either overcooked the syrup or overbeat the marshmallow mixture. Then, for the second layer, instead of his chocolate ganache, I made a lime one (the idea of combining marshmallow and lime comes from Melissa Coppel). The lime recipe (from Ewald Notter) never really sets up firmly enough, so for dipping I added some white chocolate and cocoa butter, and it was better, but still rather soft. I let the lime set for more than a day, then applied a foot to the ganache, and cut the slab on a guitar (with the wires lightly oiled, marshmallow layer on top). It cut better than I anticipated, but I could tell the pieces were "melting" into each other. I chilled it and then tried to separate the pieces, but had to use an oiled knife. In some pieces the lime layer has separated from the marshmallow. They look OK (but not great) and are rather rough around the edges. I can see that whereas I could dip them, they would not look great. The taste of marshmallow and lime is delicious together, but what could be done to improve the situation? The marshmallow was rather firm, so if I made it more pliable, then I am sure it would never cut on a guitar and the pieces would certainly flow back together once the wires had passed through. Just as obvious (from Greweling's photo and photos on eGullet from those who have made the Hot Chocolate recipe), the recipe as written does work. I'm thinking of translating the recipe into a molded piece, with pipeable marshmallow (undercooked and underbeaten) and a layer of lime ganache on top, but I hate to admit defeat. Any ideas are welcome.

I finally got around to making marshmallow (Greweling's recipe). The plan is to spread a layer of it in a frame, top it with a layer of lime ganache, and dip the finished pieces in dark chocolate. The marshmallow seems to be OK, though a little rubbery after one day. I had trouble spreading it evenly in the frame, so am thinking I may have overcooked the mixture. Greweling says to cut marshmallows on a guitar, but I have doubts about the success. I didn't want to endanger wires on the guitar, so I took a separate piece of the wire and tried to pass it through a cube of marshmallow. The wire mashed the square (which mostly rebounded, but the cut is certainly not clean). In a two-layer marshmallow piece, Greweling calls for spreading the foot on the ganache, not on the marshmallow layer. I am seeking advice on whether it is worth it to try to use the guitar or just give up and use an oiled knife. Perhaps the guitar wires should be oiled?

Thanks for the tip, which has paid off. Jennine answered my email immediately and referred me to Sean Tucci, who handles custom molds at Tomric. Today (just one day later) I got a quote from him (appreciably less than the other company, which never returned my call).

A little off the topic, but you mentioned your Paasche airbrush in another thread. So you use the Wagner just for pastry work?

I am in a minority here, but I actually make sure my cocoa butter is in temper. I know that many experts say to put the bottle in the microwave, melt it a bit, shake it, then assume that the act of spraying it from a gun will temper it, but I don't know of any method of proving that theory (how exactly would you check the temperature--or crystallization state, to be more precise--of cocoa butter as it lands on a mold?). I've used that "don't verify, just spray" method, and sometimes the molds are fine, other times not. Since I started actually testing the c.b., I have had far fewer problems with release from molds. My method: I heat the c.b. in the microwave to somewhere beyond 90F/32C. Using a Thermapen to stir it, I let the temp fall to around 92F/33.3C (putting the bottle in a cold water bath if necessary), then add a dab of cocoa butter silk (from the EZtemper), stir it, then when it's around 90F/32C, I test it in the usual way. Some c.b. takes longer to set than others (red seems to be especially stubborn), but after the silk has been added, in my experience the c.b. has always been in temper. Then I put it on the heat a little to raise the temp to the top of the range (just before Type V crystals melt), then rush to attach the bottle to my Paasche airbrush and start spraying. I use a heat gun (far more than is pleasant) to keep the temp up, but I don't check it any more.

I've had many a day when I was close to putting a curse on Norman Love (widely credited with popularizing the decoration of chocolates with cocoa butter). Then I thought of moving to Europe, where bonbons are more traditional and simple in decoration.

I agree. With any siphon-type sprayer, the size of the container matters a lot. My little Paasche bottles don't need a lot of c.b. to reach the level of the siphon, but the HotChoc with its large container would take a huge amount--which, as you say, means a big project to clean it between colors. With gravity feed, the level of cocoa butter doesn't have to be so high. So, at the workshop, the Fuji (and whatever Lionel used)--which both had large containers--worked smoothly without a full supply of color.

This sprayer sounds promising, but this quote from a Krea representative writing on The Chocolate Life forum is less promising: In another thread on that same forum, however, others write of decorating bonbons with the sprayer. I wish we could hear from someone with a definitive answer. The Krea videos I have seen show it being used for the velvet effect on pastries and similar items and also for speckling bonbons--after they are out of the mold. Its container holds a lot of product, but then so do most spray guns that people use for chocolate mold decorating.

I have a Paasche and use the largest needle. Which Paasche model are you using? I have issues with getting a steady spray of cocoa butter with it, so I can't imagine using a smaller size. But--assuming you are using it for cocoa butter--can you say a little about your experience using the middle size? Do you have to stop and heat the airbrush often? Do you get fairly full coverage of a mold, or does the cocoa butter come out in little dots (like a newspaper photo when examined closely)?

If that is the mold identified on Chocolat-Chocolat as ART6024, it is 29mm in diameter, so less than the CW 30mm one. By the way, I learned that Mike has been gone from Micelli for several years, so I will be talking to John Micelli.

I have the 15g and 18g domes. The latter are a little large, though they come in handy for Greweling's recipe where he calls for submerging a whole hazelnut in ganache. But it's the shape I am concerned about at this point. I know you have taken a Coppel class and probably saw her paint with a foam brush meticulous lines and other shapes in a demisphere (or hemisphere) mold; that's practically impossible to do in a dome. And airbrushing a dome usually means (for me) unsprayed areas and/or streaking of the cocoa butter. This tends not to happen so much in a half-sphere. I'll see how the estimates come in.

Thanks for the reply and helpful suggestions. I have sent a quote request to Micelli. They are somewhat expensive ($4,250 for 100 custom molds)--but I say "somewhat" because that comes out to $42.50 per mold, which is not that much more than some vendors charge for stock molds. I do like the fact that--unlike any other custom manufacturer I have encountered--they actually provide an estimated price on their website. You are correct that my volume doesn't justify buying so many molds, but I am working on increasing sales and if these molds were to turn out as I imagine, they would become my go-to mold. Or perhaps I could sell some of the molds to others. The long version of the story: At the Vegas workshop in May, literally every chocolatier we encountered used demisphere molds, and after watching Jin, Melissa, and Lionel (who works with Jean-Marie Auboine) decorate demispheres, I fully understand why this is THE mold (at one point I was in JMA's "mold closet" and couldn't even count the demispheres). These molds make decorating with cocoa butter so much easier and more attractive (in both hand-decorating and spray- painting applications). The three of them used what appeared to be Chocolate World's #1217 (30mm in diameter) , and Melissa Coppel also used #2002 (39mm) for her more elaborate decorations. I produce larger chocolates than a 30mm demisphere makes (9 grams), but a 39mm one (19 grams) would be out of proportion to my other chocolates. Thus the quest for something in between (I'm thinking 34mm, which I'm estimating would be about 14 grams). I will try Tomric once more. But I do not understand companies that do not respond to contact forms, emails, or phone calls--I tried all three--and am not sure what more I can do aside from flying to Buffalo and knocking down the door. I did get one reply to a contact form asking for more info, but when I provided that, I heard nothing more. In contrast, yesterday I contacted a thermoforming company about another project, had a response within an hour or so, and am well on the way to getting an estimate.