melkor

Isn't 1,200 miles a bit far to drive for dinner?

Gotcha. I've brought those sack-o-curry things with me a few times in the past, they're much more delicious than the packaged pasta things that taste like they're 50% salt and 50% preservatives.

I avoid MREs not because of how they taste but because they're heavy. I'll go for box mac and cheese over an MRE and save a pound of pack weight per meal. Hiking places where you can find wild mint, watercress, and other edibles along the way makes it even easier to eat well. An aluminum moka pot for coffee in the morning, wild mint tea at night. Most everything I hike with is dehydrated, much of it done at home. Hot chocolate made from grated chocolate, vanilla sugar, and some spices tastes worlds better than the packet stuff, but it's also significantly heavier. I still can't decide if the extra weight is worth it.

it definitely depends on the stove ... some are meant for cooking and can actually simmer. others (like mine) are climbing stoves that let you choose between Off and Blowtorch. They're great for melting snow and boiling water. But they'd be more useful for welding yourself some outdoor furniture than for making a sauce or some pancakes! ← I prefer to think of the options as off and volcano. I've been able to make pancakes on my MSR stove but you need something to diffuse the heat. I use a small pan inside a bigger pot: You can "bake" cookies if you treat them like pancakes and flip them half way through - they look like hell, but they're delicious in the middle of nowhere. Mushroom risotto works really well on backpacking trips - dehydrated chicken stock, rice, dried black trumpets, porcini powder, and a shallot. For car camping, I've got no ideas...

It seems we've all agreed that metro Detroit isn't a food town, a handful of times it's been suggested that the restaurants in the surrounding towns might qualify as food towns. I can't think of any restaurant suburbs that aren't suburbs of restaurant cities - I started this topic asking if they exist. How large an area are we talking about when we include the suburbs as part of Detroit? We need some sort of great places to eat density rating system. Count the number of city block, divide that by the number of places you'd want to eat given an unlimited budget and time and you've got a deliciousness-per-block rating. I think the bulk of the places people consider restaurant cities have extremely high deliciousness-per-block - I can't walk two blocks in Manhattan and not want to stop somewhere to snack on something. Syracuse on the other hand...

The Why isn't Detroit a Restaurant City? topic brings up an interesting point. All the food towns I can think of are cities themselves, the surrounding areas are often dotted with destination restaurants. Most of the country has a few good restaurants reasonably near by. Food towns come in a variety of sizes - Philadelphia, Seattle, Vancouver, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. All of them have dozens of good fine dining destinations, modern, and traditional restaurants, and a wide assortment of ethnic cuisines done well. Can the suburbs of a city not known for its food be a culinary destination?

I'd disagree that it's flippant or poorly researched: Wall Street Jorunal, May 2007 Reuters, March 2007: The only Detroit related news I've seen recently is similar. If the local economy isn't good, I don't see how destination restaurants can succeed. I'm not trying to offend anyone with these comments, I'm sure it's a lovely place to live - but without tourism, conventions, and business travelers it's nearly impossible for a destination restaurant to be successful. It's even harder in a city not known for being a culinary destination.

I thought you were going to clarify your post to apologize to those of us who own homes in Detroit and paid more than we did for our cars. ← I doubt many people paid for for their cars than their homes, in Detroit or elsewhere - the news reports I've seen from Detroit over the past year have shown houses selling for $10k-$20k, if you're buying a $20,000 house you probably aren't driving a $25,000 car - but who knows. Either way, the Detroit economy doesn't seem to be thriving and without a steady stream of people willing to support destination restaurants they simply cant survive.

I should clarify my post - I'm referring to domestic culinary destinations...

Restaurant cities tend to be places with a solid local economy, significant tourism, and consultants traveling on expense accounts. Any city where houses can be purchased for less than the price of a car is unlikely to be a culinary destination.

I agree completely that if every bottle of wine includes a 20% service charge that it is the same as adding 20% to the bill. That has nothing to do with what I was saying, but I'll bow out of this conversation since clearly I'm not getting my point across.

It isn't swishing violently, it's more like it swirls away from the center of the mug to the back then around the sides. My art frequently gets partially eaten by the swirling milk.

I don't believe Per Se has ever had any sort of a la carte option and for at least the past decade The French Laundry hasn't either - before then, I don't know.

That doesn't hold true if you're ordering wine. With the 'service included' model the restaurant has much more leeway when it comes to pricing their wine program. If service is going to be calculated for the customer, I think it should be included in the menu price. Another thing bugs me about the restaurant including the service charge as a line item - it's taxed differently. Let's say you live in some math-friendly imaginary place with 10% sales tax. You go to two different restaurants that charge $200/person for dinner. One place includes a 20% service charge, the other doesn't. The restaurant that includes the service charge brings you a bill for dinner that says $200 (dinner) + $40 (service) + $24 (tax), you pay $264 for your meal and go home. The other restaurant brings you a bill without service included, it says $200 (dinner) + $20 (tax), you leave a 20% ($44) tip, pay your $264 and go home. Both meals cost you the same amount, one server gets a 10% larger tip.

As there appears to be no real difference, both. ← At one restaurant you pay what is written on the menu plus tax, at another you pay what is written on the menu plus 20% plus tax, at most restaurants you pay what is written on the menu plus tax plus gratuity. Is there really no difference there? The only restaurants I know of that include service in the price of the meal are Per Se and The French Laundry. Trotters, Moto, and others treat all customers the way TGI Friday's handles large groups and adds the service charge to the bill as a line item. I'd guess that the 17-18% service charge irritates people who normally tip 15%. I also suspect most people that normally tip 20% wouldn't bother adding another 2 or 3 percent to the total since service is already covered.

Huh? Maybe we're talking about two different things here... The menu price includes service. It used to be added as a line item at the bottom of the bill as Incanto does (I agree with their reason for doing so, and no - I don't think people believe that the 5% charge is in place of a tip). I was under the apparently mistaken impression that this was the topic of this thread... Are you trying to make a list of places that add a service charge to customers bills rather than leaving them to decide how much to tip or are we discussing restaurants that include service in the menu price?

No. Incanto adds a 5% service charge to their bill. Fat Guy et al are talking about places that include service in the price of the meal. The French Laundry for example charges $240 for dinner and service is included (though tax isn't, and people frequently leave an additional tip). ←

I'm all for Turley and hamburgers, but I'm not likely to pull a zin from the cellar to serve with something I spent more than a few minutes cooking. I think it's less about the grape than the style, I'm just as unlikely to serve a zin as I am a Kosta Browne pinot. Granted, there are some exceptions - older Ridge Geyserville, caymus zin, and a handful of others work well with food.

No, both Williams-Sonoma and Sur la Table are lifestyle stores where you are likely to know more about the product you are buying than the staff does. Places like Le Sanctuaire sell actual high-end products (pacojet, immersion circulators, non-Rachael Ray books, great spices, etc).

Slice one up, dip it in salt and red pepper flakes. Eat. Repeat.

Have you figured out a way for me to plumb my espresso machine in to the Lotus? That'd give me all sorts of excuses... My latte art would have been better, but I was stuck in traffic. No officer, I don't know how fast I was going, I was making myself a macchiato...

That's a very nice rosette, nothing to slouch about! It *might* be a little more clear if you draw though pattern with a straighter pull...? ← I'm pretty sure the pour is straight down the mug, but the latte is swishing back and forth while I'm trying to draw... Any ideas?

You could always give your extra egg white to those of us who like it. ← Somehow I think the post office won't like me turning up with a ziplock full of mashed egg whites with your addressed on it...

Portion it and freeze it.

So eggs + mayo squished together in advance and put on bread == revolting. Eggs sliced and places on bread coated with mayo and squished together by mouth == delicious. Exactly!!! But, I'm telling you, there's something about the saladification process that makes egg salad more squishy than sliced eggs. ← I don't like discarding things, and since I shop at the SF farmers market, eggs cost $7/dozen (ask Alan Richman...). I'd add great eggs to your list of things that make great egg salad... Egg salad made from farm eggs laid that day, with mayo made from the same eggs... While that makes a great egg salad, I'm not convinced it makes a great dish. There has to be a way to improve on egg salad without discarding part of the egg.