Suvir Saran

Nina I am obsessed with it like you are. It was DElicious.

Suvir, Unfortunately too many businesses operate under this ideology. And you Ron, are a wise man to understand that truth.

Words of a smart man. These Bengalis always have a way of being ahead of others. I have to draw back to words from Simon. He is way too smart. For day in, day out, I am with Simon. I would rather at healthy, day in, day out. And if that means doing less drama with my food, and cooking more regularly and happily, I would use canned dried beans. And it is that day in, day out, winning feature of canned beans that make them boldly and greatly attractive. It makes them the winner.

And my even bolder stance is that NO. For Day In, Day Out, canned beans are a winner. For special occasions, dried beans are worth the extra fuss (for little if any gain). For you feel better about yourself, and your most arrogant guests can bask in your confidence. I would buy that more easily than for day in, day out.

No Wilfrid. I am afraid I am not from this culture of canned goods. Few if any of these secrets come easily to me. Ask me for secrets of how to cook dry beans.. and I shall share plenty with you. For that is what my people knew about and still rely on. Secrets of canned beans I have learned after coming to the US. Secrets learned from chefs big and small, famous and not so famous or some infamous, and recipes learned from a smart grandmother that only ever cooked with dry beans, but who after suffering strokes and heart attacks and several fractures, find little if any reason to not used canned beans after she has taught herself how to prepare age old recipes using canned beans. And after he has shown her dear husband of 60 years, my grandfather, that nothing in her cooking in the US compromises the tastes and flavors of the foods he was served by his family, their cooks and her before she came here. The key here, as with most cooking, is to first understand what you are working with. And then you make the most of your downfalls. In fact you make your weakest link your strongest one. It is easy to do Wilfrid. And if a chef or cook or en expert or novice, can put aside ego and bias, they can easily pick these tricks after one or two tries. If you hate canned beans in cassoulets, tell me why? Once you get the answer, your answer will have the trick for making that failure inevitable next time, even though you use canned beans again. You can learn to adjust your recipe. Learn to reduce cooking liquids before adding the beans. You can learn to flavor the beans with the same flavors as your liquid in the cassoulet even as it waits to be added to the final preparation. There are several things you can do.. and you can come up with on your own. The best secret I can share is the secret of being open. Of welcoming new things into your world. After some time, they become a part of your world, certainly in new ways.. and after you make some room. But that is the first and most important secret.

You certainly are a tad/beau more intelligent than the rest here. One has to make little if any effort to mask the difference. I was just speaking with Ed Schoenfeld, we spoke of this thread, had our 2 minutes of engaging debate. He said it was interesting to see how many would take such a bold stand when all it deserves is two minutes. Either way, the difference is very little, and if you add more ingredients into the mix, the difference gets reduced further. And certainly if you add spices it is further reduced. You are smart... But I will reserve any revealing details about the dishes I will prepare till the dishes are tasted and tested. They are not your usual 20 minute hummus/chickpea salad/chana chaat recipes, but very sophisticated and involved ones. But I shall only make them for those that are promising to publicly share their failure with all after the test in pointing which dish was made from dried and which from canned. There is a great difference in the two. But it ends at the point where the beans get cooked from dry, and the beans get washed from the can. After that, it is about how smart and clever a chef you are, to use either to come closer to the other. It is possible and easy. But an effort has to be made. And you are certainly onto something poignant. And as I said, you are a tad closer to the truth than the rest of us.

Maybe a Beau more? Since Tad has gotten to be tiresome.

Did you test the recipe? Do the apples retain their shape at all?

I am glad you are honest Jinmyo. I clicked on this thread fearing I would find those that swear they can taste a difference. I was worried I would have to challenge them to a blind tasting to identify what dishes were cooked with canned versus fresh. I am so happy you think like me Jinmyo. It gives me more confidence in myself. I rinse the beans very well, and do not worry after that. And take this seriously, I used to only use dry beans... but now, I use canned ones.. and no one can ever tell the difference. What am I, frickin chopped liver? Chopped liver with onions and tomatoes is great on toast. Reminds me of the wonderful liver served on toast in Srinagar, Kashmir.

Jim how long do you bake them for? What beans do you use most often?

Words of a smart man. These Bengalis always have a way of being ahead of others.

I do not care what chefs say. People (not just chefs) say a lot and mean little and have even less to back what they say. If I start taking everything a chef, writer, painter, banker, computer consultant and doctor were to start telling me as gospel truth, I might as well stop living in honesty. I have had chefs of great fame and name recognition fail the chickpea test. They are fools who came into it arrogantly and left humbled and speechless, and it was great fun to watch them. For all their arrogance, they knew no better. And really, why should they. It is not the end of the world. Please, this nonsense means nothing. Chefs hardly know better than the rest of us. They can cook, as for ingredients, they certainly do not know better than those who have cooked with ingredients for decades more than them. A home chef that has worked with beans for 60 years, and still fails the test of canned vs. dry is what teaches me about this test. Not some fancy chef who would never know the difference for most of them do not even know what plant these canned or dry beans come from. But as for you being serious, I understand that, and respect that. Let me know what you will do for me after you fail the test, and then, I can set a date that is good for both of us for this test.. and bring some judges that make sure it is fair. I am not interested in another eGullet dinner for the sake of dinner, this will be a taste test. And a test to a lot ignorance. And that is why I ask for great planning. I take my beans very seriously. And I cook beans more than most of you have in years and years. I got into teaching only because of what I do with legumes. The Director of the NYU Department of Nutrition & Food Studies loved my beans... and she called me in for an interview and then brought me in as a teacher and next thing as an Adjunct Professor. I know what I speak about here. I am not one that spent summers or months cooking in areas where beans were popular and important, but I have lived my life with people that cooked beans (and only from dry for the most part) daily and in several forms. So, I take dry beans very seriously, but after coming to the US 10 years ago, I learned how easy it is to cook with canned beans to get the IDENTICAL result. But it takes a passion for cooking, brains and some ingenuity to get identical results without using the same product. It is easy. But it needs some creativity. Certainly not every person has that creativity. Certainly not those that get lost in a world of absolutes. Both canned and dry have their greatness and their individual winning traits. But only a fool would think they really can tell the difference between canned and dry beans in a recipe that involves any more than just a blind tasting of boiled plain beans. And interestingly enough, I will only test you on chickpeas. For any others, you will not pass anyway. You will fail the chickpea test for sure. But at least I will have only one bean to tease you about for the rest of your life. I will spare each of us more ammunition. But you are a great sport. And I thank you for being in. Now give me rules about how I can ensure you humility after you fail the test. And I will plan the dates with those that work for you.

Nina if you give me a plan for what you will do after you fail the test, I am willing to administer the thread. Publically if you want, or at a home.... With an open to all eGulleteers, or just as many as you choose, and all I want is a public, maybe even TV and Radio inclusive agreement to never again confusing the lack of difference between well prepared canned and well prepared dry bean preparations. Some of you may have made cassoulets and others hummus and chicpea salad and some other beans... But remember, my people (Indians) have been using them daily for as long as history. And not just one or two or three, but all their forms. Legumes are used in our cooking daily and in only dry and fresh forms. No canned beans for us back home. I cook copious sums of beans every year. More than what many eGulleteers could cook as a sum. Beans are the backbone to most all Indian cooking (even more so to vegetarians). I am not speaking without a proven record here. I have humbled (and in rare cases, have been able to shame, some that had egos that could not think this could ever happen, and so were being rather foolishly arrogant and stubborn) many who could never imagine canned beans could taste the same. I am ready for more to apply for this ritual of canned bean conversion. But I am not going to do it without very precise and pre-advertised rules. I would love to show there is no difference. Or at least that NO ONE could tell the difference. I am willing, able and confident to come out the only winner. I will prepare 4 dishes from the same legume. All dishes will be made from fresh and canned, and you and a couple of others, will be blind folded. Served all eight preparations. And you will have to tell which is which. When you put your plan for a public humbling post into text here, let me know and I will begin preparations for the blindfolded test.

I agree with Niña. Chickpeas when made with dried beans have a better texture and flavor...I can always tell the difference. Get me a blindfold. I am willing to test both Nina and you... But you have to make promises as to what you would do when you are made humble pie. Will not waste my precious time otherwise. You certainly would not be the first to fail my blind folded canned vs. dry bean test. Many others and some of great culinary fame have done so before this...

The only way to answer. Thanks. And now, I hope you will visit NYC, and someday, I can help you widen your horizons.. and share with you some meals that may change some of your experiences, and hopefully, you would have more to say... and some pleasant experiences. There is far too much in the world of Indian cooking to be all enjoyed by most people. I agree with a lot of what you say, but also know Indian food can be every bit as subtle as any other...and every bit as bold as another cuisine. But it takes experience to find such a plethora of choices and experiences. And I am sorry you have not been able to find that restaurant... I cannot help but again share with you the very poor level of Indian restaurants. Sad that they do little if any justice to a cuisine that is amazingly rich. One that knows it, or has seen even just a little but real part of it, would know better than to think of it as being only spicy and hot. There are dishes that will win you over for they celebrate nothing more than the very elegance of a vegetable or meat without giving any hint of spiciness. And then there are those recipes which hide the meats and veggies and celebrate the richness of spices and herbs. It is a cuisine not unlike its culture. Very rich and very elusive. It can shock you with its lore and legend and stature, or it can shock you with its very amazing grasp of what is of the moment and so contemporary. And it can swing from one to the other with relative if not common ease.

Suzanne, The Way To Cook (Julia Child), has 20-25 minutes of stove top cooking for the apples in the tarte tatin recipe. How long does Peterson call for on the stove top? I have not used Julia Childs recipe for TT that you refer to. Her recipe that I use from The Way To Cook is amazing ( and she does use pâte brisée, and it is indeed a great crust).

Thanks FG. Every year, Ed Schoenfeld sends his friends a gift of oranges. They are from Florida and the best we have all year. A thoughful gift, without any fuss, and the fuss that takes place is in the pleasure we get from eating those amazing fruits and calling Ed and thanking him several days. You can see what a difference I make. With Harry & David the fuss is all in packaging for them, opening for me. None whatsoever after. It is a downhill journey once you open even one box. With this simple gift of great fruit, after opening the simply but carefully packaged box, fuss is made over the fruit everytime you taste it. I would take the latter any day over the fuss of gilded ribbons and fancy boxes.

Suzanne, Thanks for the great review of this book. Do you know if the book has a recipe for Tarte Tatin? And if so, how does that recipe compare to Julia Child's recipe for the same. Thanks.

Simon, During Ramadan, at Diwan, the employees would eat Bengali food for the Iftaar. I tried to be at the table for as many Iftaars as I could. Maacher and Chingri Jhol, Khichuri, jhaal muri, mishti doi, shorsha maach, egg curry, aloo bharta, sabzi bharta, and baigun bharta were all being prepared. It was amazing to have so many wonderful dishes from Bengal find a place at the table. What was sad is that these chefs did not think these dishes were good enough to be served on the menu. I think I may have planted seeds for some change... lets hope.

Suvir, I was kidding. However, Harry (or was it David?) made it clear that the pears HAD to be picked in this certain way or else. Two finger stem grasp with counter clockwise wrist roll. NO TUGGING!!!! It was all a little over the top for me. Its pears for pete's sake. I thought as much. If you were not kidding, you may have made a more austere and harsh post. Anyways, I still cannot understand why anyone would use Harry & David. But we do get our LARGE ugly tower of gifts. And each year, we wonder how quickly we can get rid of that stuff. And we have to that by ourselves. For we cannot imagine shaming ourselves by giving it to anyone else. I cannot think of giving a gift that I have no confidence in, so, I am a stickler for never compromising myself by allowing Harry & David products to get my name or acceptance in any way. What is most fascinating about Harry & Davids tower is that it comes in a gigantic box and after you open it, and I must be honest, each year for the last 7 years, I become a kid as I open these colorful boxes, and I am expecting somehow that a great treat will come out of even just one of the many I will open. But I keep opening, keep removing layers of tissue and layers of packaging stuff, all goes into trash.. and in the end, there is barely even enough stuff to stack one shelve. So much fluff (in this case packaging). And really, nothing worthy of much attention by anyone seriously into fine products. If you live in a desert, perhaps many of these things will bring you great joy, otherwise, most all of us will have local options that will provide equally good if not much better product. And if we have access to a telephone and have friends with references, I am sure we can do way better for our money than Harry & David. They are a great resource for those sitting in an office with little time, deep pockets and little care. They are then a perfect way to get a big bang (though certainly the bang dissipates after being opened) for your buck. Also, for all those lovers of boxes and packaging materials, Harry & David gifts are a great way of getting lots and lots of supply for your own holiday boxing and packaging. The one good thing about this whole affair. But remember, their packaging is loud.. and you must accept their taste as yours. There are lots of options out there, perhaps not all as famous, but most much better. It may be even cheaper just to buy your own goodies, get them packaged by your local Mail Box Etc.. to rid yourself the headache of packing, and still, you will save some money and share far better product. But I am being honest... It is easy to do.

Does CT not sell canned beans? But jokes aside, you will do just fine. Rinse them well. And you will not notice any difference.

I am glad you are honest Jinmyo. I clicked on this thread fearing I would find those that swear they can taste a difference. I was worried I would have to challenge them to a blind tasting to identify what dishes were cooked with canned versus fresh. I am so happy you think like me Jinmyo. It gives me more confidence in myself. I rinse the beans very well, and do not worry after that. And take this seriously, I used to only use dry beans... but now, I use canned ones.. and no one can ever tell the difference.

Land Fill! That is what I think my mind is looking for. They really come packaged like one would maybe pack a space ship... Alas SOOOOOO much drama and after all that, one gets nonsense enclosed in colorful boxes.

I use Surroundings based in NYC to deliver my baskets to friends and family around the country. Surroundings will work with only the best Florits and Basket merchants in any city, and then, will take your taste from NYC into account, ask you pointers about the person the gift is being sent to, and then work with their local partner in planning a gift that is most appropriate to their own standards and also yours as a customer of theirs. I have used them in LA, SF, Atlanta, Chicago (where I was sending a GIANT basket to Jerry Kleiner, owner of several restaurants in Chicago and a man who lives a life that is Over the TOP and everything in his home is HUGE), Memphis, A small town near Louisville, KY, Sun Valley, Boston, Albany, Brooklyn, East Hampton, NY, Toledo, Dallas, and St. Paul. Each basket mail ordered by me has been received by the guests like nothing else they have ever found available locally. And the beauty is that everything you send is local and done by local folk. But there is an effort made to ensure that the basket being sent will create the same magic that the Surrounding customer based in NYC is used to living in this cosmopolitan city. When I ordered Jerry Kleiners basket, I did so the morning of the evening I was going to be his guest at his home. The basket arrived in the afternoon, I arrived later that evening. The basket had left a great impression not only with Jerry and his SO, but with every person organizing the evenings affair. They were all amazed that a New Yorker with little knowledge of Chicago had been able to use the best florist in the city and to such great success. I did nothing, I only called a great NYC florist with great customer service and great style. They charged me slightly more than what another company would, but they always leave me with friends calling for years after to speak of the baskets amazing legend. Why then do people go to Harry & David? I am most embarrassed by the HUGE towers of boxes that arrive amazingly packaged in a brown box. They look like a tree almost. And certainly make quite a show. Tacky to me, but I can well understand how many would find it very pleasing. Unfortunately, the products inside are even less inspiring than the common packaging material. The best thing about Harry & David is their reliable brown box packaging and shipping reliability. Other than that, each year, when this particular person sends this HUGE tower of gifts, we are embarrassed and without a clue as to how we can ever get rid of this stuff. It is so bad that I cannot pass it onto anyone else, let my name be sullied by the poor quality. We end up peeling the highly waxed fruits, I try my best to get them ripe somehow, and I serve them in ways that will compensate for their lack of flavor. But only thing that brings me some joy is to send off the empty boxes to elders in the Mid West that are impressed by their gaudy colors and very holiday look. Not sure what they do with them, but I am told they are used as boxes to send holiday gifts. I would never pay that kind of money for sharing with friends how a gift could be inspiring in its shipping and handling and packaging alone. Even the cheese and nuts and chocolates are bad. And I love bad tacky candy, it brings out the worst in me, but Harry & Davids stuff is so bad that it does not even excite the tacky candy fan inside me. I am under whelmed by their products and overwhelmed by their marketing genius. Ellen maybe onto something when she speaks of Harry & David being kept in business by expense account business. Sadly, only those with little if any care for what they are sending to another, could endorse such rubbish with their name. Call me anything but Opinionated. OK.

If there was any reality to the words in the first paragraph, I feel embarassed for you as well. Really, how can anyone be proud of beating a worker in this day and age? Got to be kidding. I hope you were. I would be besides myself in rage if I saw that or heard that as a serious report. Tell me you are exaggerating. Please tell me that.